Spoke Wrench

[Tubby G]

Now then. I’m trying to purchase a spoke wrench to tighten up my nipples (oo er).

I contacted Orbea to ask what spokes they use on my Rise, and the spec sheet they sent me states Sapim Race J-Bend 4G (2mm) spokes with 2x14mm secure lock brass nipples

The Park Tool wrench I was going to buy is a 3 way multi tool, which covers the most common nipple sizes, 3.23, 3.3 & 3.45mm - Park Tool SW 7.2

I can’t find any spoke wrenches for 2mm nipples

Anyone an expert on nipples and know which tool I need to give them a good twist ?

 

[Tubby G]

The power of google has provided me with this …

Sizes

Spoke wire gauge	spoke size	nipple size
14 or 15	2.0 mm (14g) or 1.8 mm (15g)	3.23 mm (0.127 in)
14	2.0 mm	3.30 mm (0.130 in)
14	2.0 mm	3.40 mm (0.134 in)
13	2.3 mm	3.45 mm (0.136 in)

So the answer I am looking for is 3.23mm

I’ve answered my own question. No need for any nipple experts, thanks

 

[RustyIron]

I would never be so bold as to claim to be an expert on nipples. However, I'm an enthusiastic student always eager to study and learn. Oh... wait... are we talking about bikes?

You might want to order a tension gauge at the same time. Indiscriminately adjusting spokes isn't a great idea. Overtightening can lead to cracked rims, and undertightening can result in broken spokes. Some YouTube Jockeys will tell you to pluck your spokes and adjust the nipples for a B-flat minor. In my opinion, a bike wheel is very different than a piano, and you need a tension gauge.

 

[Tubby G]

I would never be so bold as to claim to be an expert on nipples. However, I'm an enthusiastic student always eager to study and learn. Oh... wait... are we talking about bikes?

You might want to order a tension gauge at the same time. Indiscriminately adjusting spokes isn't a great idea. Overtightening can lead to cracked rims, and undertightening can result in broken spokes. Some YouTube Jockeys will tell you to pluck your spokes and adjust the nipples for a B-flat minor. In my opinion, a bike wheel is very different than a piano, and you need a tension gauge.

Spoke tension meter already on order

 

[Stihldog]

There is also a spoke tension spread sheet available from Park Tools. It will place your wheels in categories and show graphs which can be helpful when truing a wheel.
You can print the results too.

 

[Stihldog]

Some tension meter come pre-calibrated. I calibrated mine with a LBS’s. What’s more important is that the spokes on each side are tensioned the same ( if possible).

 

[steve_sordy]

Some tension meter come pre-calibrated. I calibrated mine with a LBS’s. What’s more important is that the spokes on each side are tensioned the same ( if possible).

What if the spokes are different lengths on different sides? I can see that would play havoc with the B-flat brigade, but should the tension still be the same?

 

[Stihldog]

What if the spokes are different lengths on different sides? I can see that would play havoc with the B-flat brigade, but should the tension still be the same?

I think there are instructions included …but yeah it seems like you could be chasing your tail when you’re truing a wheel.
Would B-flat on a harpsichord work?
I’ve never laced a wheel, I just check the ones I got.

 

[Tubby G]

I’m not lacing a new wheel, just noticed I’ve got a few spokes looser than others and one a little bent out of shape, so need to be able to tension them properly myself

 

[The EMF]

Hi Steve,
Go easy on the spoke key buddy……could be that you’ve flat-spotted the wheel rim, probably a trip to your trusted LBS just to check plus they’ve all the gear to tension and staighten. I love faffing on with the Whyte but there’s things I pop the bike shop for. Good luck and catch up soon.

 

[Shjay]

@Tubby, which model Rise is yours? Deffo not Sapim Race spokes on M20, & yes higher tension on drive side to non drive on rear although tensions get closer with offset rims, I rebuilt my M20 rims with new spokes & hubs I had as Shimano hubs heavy & shit

 

[Tubby G]

@Tubby, which model Rise is yours? Deffo not Sapim Race spokes on M20, & yes higher tension on drive side to non drive on rear although tensions get closer with offset rims, I rebuilt my M20 rims with new spokes & hubs I had as Shimano hubs heavy & shit

Orbea sent me this spec sheet for their wheelsets:

OC WHEELS TECHNICAL MANUAL-EN-ES-FR-DE-IT

OC WHEELS TECHNICAL MANUAL-EN-ES-FR-DE-IT

www.orbea.com

It’s the Raceface AR30 rims on my M20

scroll to the page with Raceface AR30 wheels and it states Sapim Leader spokes on the front and Sapim Race on the rear

 

[Tubby G]

The bent spoke is on my other bike, the Haibike, that bike has taken a right beating! Already broken one wheel so thought I’d learn to look after the Rise’s wheels

 

[Tubby G]

I’m also having some custom wheel sets made up with DT Swiss HX531 rims and Pro 4 hubs, but I’ll use them for wet sloppy conditions with grippier tyres on

Never really maintained wheels before so fancied having a go at looking after them!

 

[RickBullotta]

Now then. I’m trying to purchase a spoke wrench to tighten up my nipples (oo er).

I contacted Orbea to ask what spokes they use on my Rise, and the spec sheet they sent me states Sapim Race J-Bend 4G (2mm) spokes with 2x14mm secure lock brass nipples

The Park Tool wrench I was going to buy is a 3 way multi tool, which covers the most common nipple sizes, 3.23, 3.3 & 3.45mm - Park Tool SW 7.2

I can’t find any spoke wrenches for 2mm nipples

Anyone an expert on nipples and know which tool I need to give them a good twist ?

"There is nothing so dangerous as a spoke wrench in the hands of a home bike mechanic..." - Everyone

 

[Tubby G]

"There is nothing so dangerous as a spoke wrench in the hands of a home bike mechanic..." - Everyone

Is it really that dangerous ? I may be simplifying things too much, but I was going to measure the tension of the spokes, both drive side and non drive side, see what the average tension is (ignoring the slightly loose spokes) and tighten the loose spokes to the same tension. I’d then carry out this process once a month for instance to ensure my spokes are at the correct tension the majority of time.

If it’s not as simple as that, I’m willing to learn …

The Park Tools website make it sound easy

Spoke Tension Measurement and Adjustment

A properly-tensioned wheel is stronger, and stays true longer. This article will review how to properly measure and adjust spoke tension.

www.parktool.com

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Spokey. Best spoke wrench out there.

This red one is the one you want.

 

[Tubby G]

Spokey. Best spoke wrench out there.
View attachment 88873
This red one is the one you want.

already ordered this one, not quite as sexy but it was only a few £’s

 

[VWsurfbum]

already ordered this one, not quite as sexy but it was only a few £’s

View attachment 88874

In my experience, this is the best one.

 

[Shjay]

I have a Unior one but my fav are couple of the Lifeline ones I have

 

[RickBullotta]

Is it really that dangerous ? I may be simplifying things too much, but I was going to measure the tension of the spokes, both drive side and non drive side, see what the average tension is (ignoring the slightly loose spokes) and tighten the loose spokes to the same tension. I’d then carry out this process once a month for instance to ensure my spokes are at the correct tension the majority of time.

If it’s not as simple as that, I’m willing to learn …

The Park Tools website make it sound easy

Spoke Tension Measurement and Adjustment

A properly-tensioned wheel is stronger, and stays true longer. This article will review how to properly measure and adjust spoke tension.

www.parktool.com

The challenge is that many people only tighten spokes, and never loosen any. When a rim gets deformed or a spoke gets bent, sometimes it requires both. The other thing I've seen many times is wheel dish getting screwed up in the process, but usually that's not enough of an issue to notice (particularly now bikes are 99% disc brakes). Same with "roundness" or wheel hop. The other common issue is rounding off spoke heads from overtightening.

Regarding a spoke tensiometer, while I own one I rarely use it. It never seemed that accurate or consistent when I did. I could measure the same spoke three times and get significantly different readings. I've probably built 50 wheels and only used it twice.

All that said, you'll be fine if you avoid the "gorilla approach" that spoke wrenches are just for tightening spokes.

 

[Tubby G]

The challenge is that many people only tighten spokes, and never loosen any. When a rim gets deformed or a spoke gets bent, sometimes it requires both. The other thing I've seen many times is wheel dish getting screwed up in the process, but usually that's not enough of an issue to notice (particularly now bikes are 99% disc brakes). Same with "roundness" or wheel hop. The other common issue is rounding off spoke heads from overtightening.

Regarding a spoke tensiometer, while I own one I rarely use it. It never seemed that accurate or consistent when I did. I could measure the same spoke three times and get significantly different readings. I've probably built 50 wheels and only used it twice.

All that said, you'll be fine if you avoid the "gorilla approach" that spoke wrenches are just for tightening spokes.

Thanks for the tips Rick. I’ll learn to do it properly, read as much as possible and get watching YouTube. There’s a tonne of info on the Park Tools website too, including some fancy app that plots a spider web graph against the tension readings, assuming the tension readings are correct! If all fails I have a mate that builds wheels so he’ll be able to point out where I’m going wrong, but I’m only tensioning a few spokes for now so feeling confident it’ll all be fine

what could possibly go wrong

 

[Slymobi]

 

[#lazy]

The power of google has provided me with this …

Sizes

Spoke wire gauge	spoke size	nipple size
14 or 15	2.0 mm (14g) or 1.8 mm (15g)	3.23 mm (0.127 in)
14	2.0 mm	3.30 mm (0.130 in)
14	2.0 mm	3.40 mm (0.134 in)
13	2.3 mm	3.45 mm (0.136 in)

So the answer I am looking for is 3.23mm

I’ve answered my own question. No need for any nipple experts, thanks

You Tit

 

[RustyIron]

Is it really that dangerous ? I may be simplifying things too much, but I was going to measure the tension of the spokes, both drive side and non drive side, see what the average tension is (ignoring the slightly loose spokes) and tighten the loose spokes to the same tension.

I think he was being hyperbolic. What's dangerous is taking your bike to a shop that is staffed by pimply faced kids whose only qualifications are that they subscribe to Shredder Magazine and they'll work for minimum wage.

It sounds like you've already thought this through, so already you're light years ahead of the average "bike shop." First thing I do is measure tension on each spoke, and scribble the readings on a sketch pad. Now I have an average tension, and I can see if the outliers correspond to "wowies" in the rim. If all is well, lack of trueness in the rim will correspond to irregular spoke tensions. Often it's not, in which case you'll have to figure something out. Old aluminum rims can be a bitc... um... difficult. Dents in the rim will mean that there's no way you can have a true rim with even spoke tensions. That's just another thing you have to deal with. Just be careful about over or under tensioning.

P.S.
I like to use silver artists pencils in my garage, they easily mark metal and carbon, and the mark can be wiped off.

 

[Slymobi]

I think he was being hyperbolic. What's dangerous is taking your bike to a shop that is staffed by pimply faced kids whose only qualifications are that they subscribe to Shredder Magazine and they'll work for minimum wage.

It sounds like you've already thought this through, so already you're light years ahead of the average "bike shop." First thing I do is measure tension on each spoke, and scribble the readings on a sketch pad. Now I have an average tension, and I can see if the outliers correspond to "wowies" in the rim. If all is well, lack of trueness in the rim will correspond to irregular spoke tensions. Often it's not, in which case you'll have to figure something out. Old aluminum rims can be a bitc... um... difficult. Dents in the rim will mean that there's no way you can have a true rim with even spoke tensions. That's just another thing you have to deal with. Just be careful about over or under tensioning.

P.S.
I like to use silver artists pencils in my garage, they easily mark metal and carbon, and the mark can be wiped off.

I pretty much built my existing wheels this way as i couldn't source all the correct info to put into the tension calculator but managed to guesstimate and get a rough idea of averages for my hub and spokes which lined up with my manual testing averages so then set drive non drive to recommended and then trued keeping within 20% of my initial tensions.

Didnt really get chance to test completely as test ride ended in heavy fall pretty sure my wheel build wasnt the cause

 

[urastus]

What if the spokes are different lengths on different sides? I can see that would play havoc with the B-flat brigade, but should the tension still be the same?

In my limited experience, I've never seen a wheel without different length spokes. Well, unicycles etc.

It does get a little bit complicated: I get the average tension for each side of each wheel first. Each side of each wheel will be different because of disc brake, gear cluster etc - wheels are generally asymmetrical. In my theorizing even if you have a buckle the overall total tension is all still in that wheel; some spokes will have more tension, some will have less. This seems to be the case with all my wheels (I have 4 bikes). I record the average tension.

Then have a look at wheel centering; most bikes seem to be a little out. I just do this in frame. If the wheel is out to one side a bit, I increase the average spoke tension on the opposite side. Not much - we're talking very small amounts here.

It generally takes me about an hour for each wheel. Once you think you have it all, go over the wheel again. Consider; you adjust one side of the wheel, then adjust the other side of the wheel. When you adjust the second side of the wheel it effects the tension of the spokes on the first side of the wheel .

The good news is I have confidence in my wheels, that they are as strong as they can be. I haven't had to touch them for about a year now - and I session jumps and drops most days. Jumps and drops are a new skill, so I don't always land...gracefully

I used to try the tone way - tap a spoke and listen to the tone. What a myth that was ; the spoke tension meter put an end to that. It could just be me of course.

 

[urastus]

Is it really that dangerous ? I may be simplifying things too much, but I was going to measure the tension of the spokes, both drive side and non drive side, see what the average tension is (ignoring the slightly loose spokes) and tighten the loose spokes to the same tension. I’d then carry out this process once a month for instance to ensure my spokes are at the correct tension the majority of time.

If it’s not as simple as that, I’m willing to learn …

The Park Tools website make it sound easy

Spoke Tension Measurement and Adjustment

A properly-tensioned wheel is stronger, and stays true longer. This article will review how to properly measure and adjust spoke tension.

www.parktool.com

I think you're in the ball park. However, I'd measure all spokes; for every loose spoke there is a tighter spoke. The rim is contained - tension just gets moved around to where you may not want it. If you don't measure the loose spokes you will get a higher average because of the tighter (above average) spokes.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

In my experience, this is the best one.

I'll disagree and tell you why.

Spokes can be tight, and the park one equals sore fingers. It's too many angular edges.
Cost isn't really the point. The Spokey and the Park are about the same, only the spokey is easier to use, affords better grip and also you can get more torque on it.
And when you drop it, which you inevitably will, it's much easier to see.

 

[Manc44]

Factory built wheels often have loose spokes on the NDS side or, they start off a bit too loose and go looser over time.
I built my own wheels and they never even needed truing after that, well not even 5% the amount of factory built crap.

It's an endless subject but maybe the most important thing is when you're tightening the spokes, to overtighten then slacken off so it's not stressing the spoke... otherwise you'll just never be able to get it trued properly. Thin oil on every spoke thread helps a lot, although that only applies to building from scratch, it's not much use on a factory built wheel if they never bothered with oil.