Specialized reliability?

[CJaMTB]

I bought my first Spesh eMTB back in Feb '18 and have since had 4 more of their bikes. The first was a Kenevo Expert, which had a battery replaced twice. The second was a hardtail, which had a battery replaced and was then sold as it was just too hard on my knee, hip, ankle, and back injuries. Third was a 2019 Levo Comp, which had a motor replaced before being sold to fund an SL. Fourth was a 2020 Kenevo Comp, which has had a wiring harness replaced (a known fault apparently), part funded by selling the original Kenevo. Fifth is my SL Comp Carbon, which is only 2 days old and so far so good.

My question is, does this seem fairly typical of Spesh's ebikes, or have I just been a bit unlucky? I love the two bikes I have now, the 2020 Kenevo Comp and SL Comp Carbon, and intend to stick with these for a good few years now. Whilst the customer service I've had from my LBS (Concept Store) has been great and the faults to date have not cost me a penny to rectify, I'm a little concerned that cost of ownership could get a touch high once warranties expire...

 

[Cinnamon]

Because of loyal customers like you, they don’t have to care about the quality of their products...

 

[urastus]

Geez - I'm amazed you stayed with them! Still, if you can't fault their warranty, and don't keep the bikes beyond their warranty... Still a hastle to have to deal with repairs though, when you could be riding. I tend to keep things for a long time; what happens after the two years? It's a good question, and one that not many seem to care about. My preference is not having to deal with warranty and repairs.

 

[MattyB]

Nothing I’ve seen in real life (I know 5 owners locally who have been through 7 or 8 replacement motors between them) or on these forums would convince me to buy a Brose motored Spec. The fact they have started this new partnership with Mahle is very telling...

 

[CJaMTB]

Geez - I'm amazed you stayed with them! Still, if you can't fault their warranty, and don't keep the bikes beyond their warranty... Still a hastle to have to deal with repairs though, when you could be riding. I tend to keep things for a long time; what happens after the two years? It's a good question, and one that not many seem to care about. My preference is not having to deal with warranty and repairs.

I'm disabled and can't ride analogue bikes (was told I'd never ride again), so a HUGE factor for me was motor noise. The 1.2 and 1.3 motors, on the hardtail and original Kenevo, were near silent and the 2.1 on the new Kenevo is not much louder. With the SL, although there's definitely more of a whine than the others, with a 5kg (measured) difference in weight, I'll take a little more noise. I'm hopeful, now that the Kenevo's wiring harness has been updated, that that'll be it and that the new Mahle motor on the SL will prove durable. If not, I'll be casting a wider net for any future bikes and may have to accept a noisier ride... ?

 

[urastus]

I'm disabled and can't ride analogue bikes (was told I'd never ride again), so a HUGE factor for me was motor noise. The 1.2 and 1.3 motors, on the hardtail and original Kenevo, were near silent and the 2.1 on the new Kenevo is not much louder. With the SL, although there's definitely more of a whine than the others, with a 5kg (measured) difference in weight, I'll take a little more noise. I'm hopeful, now that the Kenevo's wiring harness has been updated, that that'll be it and that the new Mahle motor on the SL will prove durable. If not, I'll be casting a wider net for any future bikes and may have to accept a noisier ride... ?

It's good that you can afford to update regularly. The future is looking good for a new category of light weight emtb. My partner is small, < 5 feet; lightweight emtb's are on my radar too, albeit very small ones

 

[CJaMTB]

It's good that you can afford to update regularly. The future is looking good for a new category of light weight emtb. My partner is small, < 5 feet; lightweight emtb's are on my radar too, albeit very small ones

Not too regularly and already more than I'd like. The hardtail had to go, as I underestimated the impact of no rear sus on my injuries. The first Kenevo did well, but I was limited in range by the 504wh battery. It's more been a case of trying to zero in on the right bikes for long-term use, which I think I have now. The 2020 Kenevo is a genuine belter of a bike and is perfect for when I want to get properly rowdy, or if I ever fancy Mountain of Hell (or similar) again. The Levo SL is shaping up to be perfect for everything else. I just have to hope that both bikes now remain problem free, hence my original post/question...

 

[comtn]

I’ve always wondered if wetter climates play a factor. I live in a dry climate and haven’t had an issue. 2 2018 Levos one with 1200 on one and 1800 miles on the other with no issues. 2019 with 350 miles trouble free. Maybe I am over due for problems ??‍

 

[CJaMTB]

I’ve always wondered if wetter climates play a factor. I live in a dry climate and haven’t had an issue. 2 2018 Levos one with 1200 on one and 1800 miles on the other with no issues. 2019 with 350 miles trouble free. Maybe I am over due for problems ??‍

That is a factor, it must be, and the distances I ride will play their part too. I had a Trek Powerfly a few years back, which I put 8,000kms (5,000 miles) on in one year, then the motor seized. My current Kenevo has done close to 1,500kms, the hardtail Levo I had must have been over 3,000kms at least. Still, I've seen other posts where people are getting these kinds of distances without issues. Maybe it's just me!

 

[SquireRides]

I think about e-mountain bikes like other middle-aged hobbies. If you buy an exotic sports car, then every weekend take it for a burn, red-lining it at every opportunity, then you can expect it to be quite an expensive hobby with lots of visits to your mechanic.

Nothing wrong with that. We have to be realistic about the longevity if that's what we do. We're pushing what it pretty new technology, to the extreme of its design tolerances, every weekend, and probably leaving it covered in water and mud at the end of it

 

[SquireRides]

What I hope for from eMTBs in the future is not reliability that exceeds the reality of materials science or physics, but serviceability. Bosch did well to release their bearing refresh kit for the previous gen CX motor. If future eeb motors can be made to be serviceable at least by an experienced LBS, that would be great because it should reduce cost and - more importantly to many of us - waiting time.

 

[MattyB]

What I hope for from eMTBs in the future is not reliability that exceeds the reality of materials science or physics, but serviceability. Bosch did well to release their bearing refresh kit for the previous gen CX motor. If future eeb motors can be made to be serviceable at least by an experienced LBS, that would be great because it should reduce cost and - more importantly to many of us - waiting time.

Agreed, though I wouldn't mind a bit more sealing of bearings and other ingress points to improve the underlying reliability - Mahle seem to have taken that on board with their new motor for Specialized, let's hope it proves successful.

 

[Swissrider]

One is left with difficult decisions: go for a Specialized Levo or Kenevo, which regularly win tests and are justifiably popular and accept the unreliable Brose motors and to a lesser extent batteries, or avoid Specialized and their seeming reliability problems. I love my 2018 Kenevo and it suits my riding perfectly but after nearly two years (fortunately) and 2000k the motor is going to be replaced as the noises It now makes suggest a broken belt soon. It’s a pity that the belts are not more robust and that they can be serviced. As I posted a few days ago there is also the question of how long one should expect an ebike motor to last. A top quality washing machine electric motor, used every day, should last fifteen years at least and even in a cheap one, more than five years. My feeling is that an ebike motor should last at least five years or at least 10,000 kilometres, although some motors have done a lot more than this. A motorbike, which is a lot more complex, will usually last at least ten years before any major problems. Ebikes are expensive and if their lifetime is short before the major expense of buying a new motor, it will limit their use to those with deep pockets. If a manufacturer were able to claim that the vast majority of their motors lasted at least five years (and guaranteed for two) they would get my vote, especially if the bike performed as well as Specialized.

 

[CJaMTB]

I think about e-mountain bikes like other middle-aged hobbies. If you buy an exotic sports car, then every weekend take it for a burn, red-lining it at every opportunity, then you can expect it to be quite an expensive hobby with lots of visits to your mechanic.

Nothing wrong with that. We have to be realistic about the longevity if that's what we do. We're pushing what it pretty new technology, to the extreme of its design tolerances, every weekend, and probably leaving it covered in water and mud at the end of it

I was disabled and told I'd never ride again at age 25, then started mountain biking on hand powered trikes, before ebikes started appearing. 7yrs after being encouraged (by my OT) to try an ebike, I got my first decent eMTB. I'm not sure I can agree with any part of your statement.

 

[comtn]

I’ve always wondered if wetter climates play a factor. I live in a dry climate and haven’t had an issue. 2 2018 Levos one with 1200 on one and 1800 miles on the other with no issues. 2019 with 350 miles trouble free. Maybe I am over due for problems ??‍

Update : Blew my first motor on my ‘19 tonight. It started cutting out then completely let loose complete with high pitched squeeling. Probably the belt. Crap

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

Mine has been great. Dry climate. I’m having worry free fun and spending money on upgrades? 2500 miles in 6 months of riding.

 

[comtn]

Pretty disappointing Specialized would sell such crap. The more I read motors are failing right and left. Dealer doesn't seem to have a clue what to do. First they have heard of any issues. It will probably be weeks until I can get a new motor with the covid delays. Hopefully the new shimano motors are good so I can jump ship to something more reliable so I can stay on the trail.

 

[gdcase]

I've owned 2 spec Levo emtbs. Was down for a month with the first due to connection issues and just replaced the Brose on my 2019 Expert. I'm skeptical as to quality of the motors and connections, but sure do enjoy the ride!

 

[High Rock Ruti]

High Rock Ruti

4 motors less than 1000 total miles TL S works full refund. New Rail 9.8 absolutely love the bike and at 220 miles still running. That's what losing a motor every couple hundred miles will do for your confidence in the equipment. 2016 pivot shuttle (5-6 thousand miles) finally needs a new motor because the main power plug inside the motor has come loose, however the motor and battery have been flawless. Not yes sure about Bosch, the shimano pretty sure about hoping to hard wire the battery to the motor until new shimano motors are available supposedly in July.

 

[CJaMTB]

High Rock Ruti

4 motors less than 1000 total miles TL S works full refund. New Rail 9.8 absolutely love the bike and at 220 miles still running. That's what losing a motor every couple hundred miles will do for your confidence in the equipment. 2016 pivot shuttle (5-6 thousand miles) finally needs a new motor because the main power plug inside the motor has come loose, however the motor and battery have been flawless. Not yes sure about Bosch, the shimano pretty sure about hoping to hard wire the battery to the motor until new shimano motors are available supposedly in July.

Bloody hell, that's dire! Glad you got the full refund though. The 2 Treks I owned were polar opposites; one barely did 200 miles before a motor replacement, the other did over 5,000 miles in one year, then the motor seized!

 

[Gogogordo]

OK I’m going to chime in here.
I’ve got a 2017 levo comp.
first the battery went after about a year.
spesh replaced that for free under warranty.
Then after about two years and two months, Back in July 2019, the motor blew up and Spesh Said it was not under warrantyso I ended up paying $1100 for a new motor.
no discount.
about $1300 out the door from the LBS, no knock on them.
They are always outstanding, they couldn’t get Spesh to bend on this one though.
That Motor just started making funny noises about a month ago.
Spesh is replacing that motor under warranty no charge.
I love the bike when it’s working.
it’s one of the best riding experiences I’ve ever had in my 40 years of riding.
I ride it in central California so weather is not an issue.
I average about 100 miles a week so I’m not putting that many miles on it, but I am riding it consistently.
Like someone mentioned earlier, washing machines last longer than these things do.
They should be better by now.
I don’t like having so many issues with it.
It cost money and it takes time to get it repaired.
I like being able to service everything on my rig.
This is the only drawbacks to these bikes, be it Spesh or any of the other manufactures.
I feel like we’re guinea pigs for the future.
I just don’t know if I’ll be around to enjoy that.
Bigger batteries would be nice too.
That’s my two cents.
Good luck everyone.
GoGo

 

[Slideways]

Spesh has a program for the original owners of their eBikes that offers a discount on motors and batteries if you are outside the warranty period. If you are the original owner and especially if you purchased from the shop the handled the sale of the new motor they should have gone to bat for you. You can fact check this with a call to Specialized customer care.

 

[motoadve]

2019 Levo Carbon Expert, 1,300 miles, all single track, rocks , mud, wet, lots of vert in the PNW, knock on wood, not a single issue.
11 months so far.

 

[CjP]

Washing machines don’t get thrown down rocky terrain and expected to keep working.
I think people forget the amount of stress a mtb goes through. There are so many variables that can lead to failures on a bike which I’m sure many here are either not aware of or not admitting to. There will alway be a percentage of failures due to build quality but I’m guessing most are due to user error.
A good warranty is a must and Specialzied have the best one by far.
My brothers Kenevo was intermittently turning off the other day over jumps and rough terrain and then just wouldn’t turn on. After reading this forum I knew it must of been the power cable. I tried my cable on his bike and yes that was the problem. I noticed on his cable where it was bent and placed inside the motor that the wires inside were twisted and not flat. Obviously over time this cause the wires to rub and eventually fail. No big deal, phoned Specialzied, they had a cable in stock and was replaced without question. Went riding the next day.

 

[beutelfuchs]

Have the third motor on my 2020 Kenevo ought in 11/2019. First time it was the belt, for the 2nd some sensor was broken from the beginning. The current one now starts making noises again
I ride in super dry Cataluna, so water is not my issue.
But I have 100kg and my routes are always steep up->down, and I prefer using lot of support nearly always next to adding around 200 watts on average myself, just to save time uphill. I guess that plays much more of a role. Others who have 30Kg less could go with half the power equally fast and therefore stress the motor a lot less.
The third motor I now restricted to 80% max power via the MC app in the hope it keeps up longer. But now I wonder if it would break at least so it can get it repaired before going to Finale end of August. And then maybe once more before and of warranty so I could sell the bike right after. I hate that I need to do this kind of considerations.
Rode the Shimano before, same riding profile, no issues.
Besides that the Keveno is the best bike I have ever ridden, E and non-E combined, for the steep, rocky terrain I have. Else I would have long sold it or would have gone for a refund.

 

[Jetpilot]

Maybe ive been living under a rock, ive not heard of Brose issues till I came here, ironically to see if any had Flyon issues. I had a Bosch cx with no issues and 2k plus miles in all weathers, a riding friend has had 2 Bosch cx, one no issues for similar miles and still going strong with another friend who bought it off him, his 2nd bosch the motor was replaced with under 100 miles.

3 friends bought levos in 2017, no issues at all and both me and my main riding buddy from above got 2020 Levos in Jan, both probably 500 - 750 miles with no issue, *so far.

Seems to be many complaints at Brose and Spesh on here, perhaps rightly so with some of the unfortunate guys above experience, but anyone have any real time data to failure rate as a % to numbers sold, to me that would be far more telling than peddling the whole brose is cr*p and unfit for purpose stuff, you could easily find out with a freedom of information request if you were so inclined, probably from spesh or brose.

 

[Jeffw]

2020 Levo Expert. Battery Harness shorting out so replaced under warranty two weeks ago. Since then, bike will not power on unless i remove the Rosenberg connect to the battery and then replace it. Going back to the LBS again

Previously had a 2018 Kenevo which was back to my LBS eleven times (new motors, new batteries, cables replaced, TCU replaced) and Spesh eventually gave me a full refund

Thing is, when both bikes are out on the trail, they have been great to ride. A friend of mine has a 2018 Kenevo and never had any issues at all so guess just a bit unlucky.

But i am at the point where i fear that the power issues will resurface when out riding and i will be left high 'n dry out on a trail. Only local riding now as travelling to ride may be a waste of a journey if the bike loses power again. Ideally like some confidence that the bike remains power problem-free and when (if) this lockdown is lifted, i can get to various UK trail centres

Got to say that the Spesh warranty is very good and both Spesh and my LBS have provided great service. But at £7.5k, should i really be having as many repeat problems?

I continue to question myself: should i have bought the 2020 Enduro instead of the E-Bike Levo Expert? For sure, i would have had more riding time however i keep coming back to the 'use case' - and the e-bike ticks all the boxes

We shall see what the latest diagnosis on the bike says. Goes in tomorrow. Fingers crossed

 

[beutelfuchs]

Seems to be many complaints at Brose and Spesh on here, perhaps rightly so with some of the unfortunate guys above experience, but anyone have any real time data to failure rate as a % to numbers sold, to me that would be far more telling than peddling the whole brose is cr*p and unfit for purpose stuff, you could easily find out with a freedom of information request if you were so inclined, probably from spesh or brose.

Sorry but any average failure rate does not tell a thing. The majority of MTBs are never nearly ridden as intended in terms km, descends, terrain and general strain. And this drops the failure rate significantly and is the one big reason vendors get away with the low durability they offer.
And then the small group of freaks (read: people riding seriously and posting their 2000€ upgrades in forums) stick with all the issues, one after the other. But for the vendors that's fine and even doesn´t cost anything as it's a tiny group and the QA responsible can always pull his "average failure rate <1%" card. Its just shit for us.

 

[Jetpilot]

Sorry but any average failure rate does not tell a thing. The majority of MTBs are never nearly ridden as intended in terms km, descends, terrain and general strain. And this drops the failure rate significantly and is the one big reason vendors get away with the low durability they offer.
And then the small group of freaks (read: people riding seriously and posting their 2000€ upgrades in forums) stick with all the issues, one after the other. But for the vendors that's fine and even doesn´t cost anything as it's a tiny group and the QA responsible can always pull his "average failure rate <1%" card. Its just shit for us.

It tells you everything you need to know with whether spesh consider they have reliability issues and selling sub standard products. What do you think a global company will do, over engineer a product at increased costs for "a small group of freaks" or live with a > 1% failure rate which costs them less, which is most likely a split cost with Brose. Lots of chat about the new partnership with Mahle, lets see what happens with them when those small group of freaks get hold of them, I doubt it will be much different, just like all the other manufacturers motors that fail. We all live with mechanical items going wrong on a daily basis, from white goods to cars and anything in between, often 6 figure sums, emtbs are not unique and no different.

I think the problem is we are the first generation that have pedal assist bikes and still see emtbs as a bike, that apart from basic servicing very rarely went wrong, mechanical things fail and apart from some of the real unfortunate examples of multiple issues above, I dont see a major flaw with any of the manufactures.

Try finding out failure rates of all of those manufacturers, bet they are all near similar % to bikes sold and failed.

 

[beutelfuchs]

It tells you everything you need to know with whether spesh consider they have reliability issues and selling sub standard products.

Well an "average" tells you the average, which is usually not a lot, which is why other statistical indicators are used in addition all the time to properly understand a situation.
And making a product fit for its intended purpose (e.g. for the kenevo "strong guy riding 25% uphill in boost/shuttle+to throw it back down, repeat", see their videos then in doubt) is everything but "over engineering" it.
And what whatever company is going to do at least partly also depends on customer feedback which is why we are here.
Maybe you come down your high horse one day after pushing back your broken 25Kg rig 20km uphill home through the outback to then wait two weeks to get it fixed instead of enjoying your yearly vacation. I already had my share of that by now.