Specialized Levo vs Trek Rail

Rusty

Rusty

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Jul 17, 2019
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New Zealand
p3eps said:
I’ve read the EMTB mode is very good and adapts to the conditions, so that’s a big plus. I was more concerned about the lack of ‘hack ability’, as it’d be nice to be able to get about 20mph assisted rather than just 15.5.
Click to expand...
Get used to it. All motors will be locked down shortly to comply with the Nazis that are the EU.
 
Rusty

Rusty

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Jul 17, 2019
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Ahh - America is nowhere as anal as the EU twits.
Pretty sure we will see an increase in America that will take the speeds up to 25Mph (40kph) sometime soon.
 
Doomanic

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Why would you think that? They already have a class for 28mph.
 
Rusty

Rusty

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Jul 17, 2019
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Not sure - I was told all are going to change, but the one everybody was excited about was the move from 20 to 25mph. My understanding is no power change - just the speed limit.

We have similar rules here in NZ and the consensus is that they need to move upwards by
5kph for pedal assist
10kph for pedal assist with throttle
15kph for throttle only (mopeds)
 

R

Randomscruff

Member
Jan 4, 2020
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Rail2198!
Hey there,

I’m looking at a Trek Rail 7 and tossing up whether or not to hit the buy button. Just wondering if anyone has any advice or other options to consider. I can buy it for €4295 / £3650 / $4780 on sale at the moment. Seems like a pretty good deal for really good geometry, Bosch Gen4 and a bunch of other great features. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or advice please let me know.

Cheers,

Scruff
 

AKAKTM

AKAKTM

Member
Apr 23, 2020
35
53
Santa Clarita, CA
I have a Trek Rail 9.9AXS and a Levo Expert. I've ridden each bike more than 150 miles (160 on the Rail and 900 on the Levo) and would be happy to answer questions. Last night I rode both bikes back to back over some of the same trails and I can say they are both GREAT eMTBs and probably among the best bikes in the market. I can also say there is no clear winner.

The motors and geo do feel different. The Brose and Gen 4 Bosch are both excellent motors and probably the two best motors you can get today. I've had no reliability issues with my Brose, though I know several people who have. The Bosch G4 is too new to have good data on reliability. I can't detect any outright power difference even though the Bosch has 75Nm and the Brose MagS 90Nm. The Brose is quieter and smoother sounding under load and the Brose is MUCH quieter when descending. The Bosch has a great deal of clatter associated with the freewheel mechanism inside the motor. Both are quiet enough on smooth ground and climbing, but if you don't like noise on a bike in rough descents, the Trek (Bosch G4) will not be for you.

Neither bike is perfect. Both bikes are very good though. I'm considering doing a detailed review if there's enough interest in it. Ultimately, if you are considering these bikes and have the cash, you will be very happy with either. I personally feel the best value in the Levo line is the Levo Comp Aluminum (now that it has the 700 battery) and the Rail 9.8XT. The 9.9AXS I have is nice, but the 9.8XT is a far better value and the new XT drive train works amazingly well. I would not have bought the AXS bike if I hadn't received a great deal on it. There's a LOT more detail I could provide if interested.
 
Larsey

Larsey

Active member
Feb 4, 2018
31
37
MN
AKAKTM said:
I have a Trek Rail 9.9AXS and a Levo Expert. I've ridden each bike more than 150 miles (160 on the Rail and 900 on the Levo) and would be happy to answer questions. Last night I rode both bikes back to back over some of the same trails and I can say they are both GREAT eMTBs and probably among the best bikes in the market. I can also say there is no clear winner.

The motors and geo do feel different. The Brose and Gen 4 Bosch are both excellent motors and probably the two best motors you can get today. I've had no reliability issues with my Brose, though I know several people who have. The Bosch G4 is too new to have good data on reliability. I can't detect any outright power difference even though the Bosch has 75Nm and the Brose MagS 90Nm. The Brose is quieter and smoother sounding under load and the Brose is MUCH quieter when descending. The Bosch has a great deal of clatter associated with the freewheel mechanism inside the motor. Both are quiet enough on smooth ground and climbing, but if you don't like noise on a bike in rough descents, the Trek (Bosch G4) will not be for you.

Neither bike is perfect. Both bikes are very good though. I'm considering doing a detailed review if there's enough interest in it. Ultimately, if you are considering these bikes and have the cash, you will be very happy with either. I personally feel the best value in the Levo line is the Levo Comp Aluminum (now that it has the 700 battery) and the Rail 9.8XT. The 9.9AXS I have is nice, but the 9.8XT is a far better value and the new XT drive train works amazingly well. I would not have bought the AXS bike if I hadn't received a great deal on it. There's a LOT more detail I could provide if interested.
Click to expand...

Would love to read a detailed review of the two bikes.
 
D

Dano78

Member
Dec 3, 2019
162
35
Uk
AKAKTM said:
I have a Trek Rail 9.9AXS and a Levo Expert. I've ridden each bike more than 150 miles (160 on the Rail and 900 on the Levo) and would be happy to answer questions. Last night I rode both bikes back to back over some of the same trails and I can say they are both GREAT eMTBs and probably among the best bikes in the market. I can also say there is no clear winner.

The motors and geo do feel different. The Brose and Gen 4 Bosch are both excellent motors and probably the two best motors you can get today. I've had no reliability issues with my Brose, though I know several people who have. The Bosch G4 is too new to have good data on reliability. I can't detect any outright power difference even though the Bosch has 75Nm and the Brose MagS 90Nm. The Brose is quieter and smoother sounding under load and the Brose is MUCH quieter when descending. The Bosch has a great deal of clatter associated with the freewheel mechanism inside the motor. Both are quiet enough on smooth ground and climbing, but if you don't like noise on a bike in rough descents, the Trek (Bosch G4) will not be for you.

Neither bike is perfect. Both bikes are very good though. I'm considering doing a detailed review if there's enough interest in it. Ultimately, if you are considering these bikes and have the cash, you will be very happy with either. I personally feel the best value in the Levo line is the Levo Comp Aluminum (now that it has the 700 battery) and the Rail 9.8XT. The 9.9AXS I have is nice, but the 9.8XT is a far better value and the new XT drive train works amazingly well. I would not have bought the AXS bike if I hadn't received a great deal on it. There's a LOT more detail I could provide if interested.
Click to expand...
I'm very Interested in trek rail 9.8 so would love to know more about it if possible please
 
AKAKTM

AKAKTM

Member
Apr 23, 2020
35
53
Santa Clarita, CA
IMG_8498.jpeg


I just sold the Levo after riding it about 1050 miles and the Rail 9.9 has almost 200 on it. I've been able to ride the bikes back to back several times which is very helpful. I'll start with some qualitative observations then some relatively more quantitive ones.

Qualitative:
  • Both bikes are very good and are really fun. I expect you'd be happy with either.
  • As mentioned before, the biggest downside to the Rail is the noise. First the motor internal metallic freewheel noise when descending. This is apparently normal for the Bosch G4 motor and will be ignored by many but will be a deal breaker for some.
  • The Rail has also been noisier in general. There is more chainslap and the chainstay protector isn't as well designed as the Levo which probably contributes to the noise. The chain on both bikes is extremely close to the chainstay in the 10T cog.
  • At only 200 miles, my rail also had creaking from the non-drive side crank and one of the motor mount bolts. NO big deal. I removed the crank arm, cleaned and re-torqued and I greased around the motor mount and re-torqued the mount bold and it's quiet again.
  • All of the noise issues with the Rail have been minor and haven't been a deal breaker for me, but in contrast, my Levo had virtually no noise until the cassette and chain became worn and those were resolved by replacing the chain, cassette and chainring.
  • The biggest downside, for some, with the Levo is the motor belt failure rate. I have not had a single issue with the motor on my Levo, but I'm about 180lbs, don't use the highest setting (Turbo) often and I don't lug the motor at a low cadence.
  • Another downside to the Levo and many Specialized bikes is that the spec for their builds and price points is off. In other words, they seem to use relatively cheap parts on 'higher-end' builds. My $8295USD Levo came with basic CODE brakes, 31.8mm aluminum bars, a cheap Command Post, and a basic SRAM 11-speed drive train. By contrast, the Rail XT at a similar price point has a much better kit in my opinion with the latest XT 4-pot brakes, 12-speed XT, etc. This fault irks me about Specialized. Some companies like Ibis Cycles really provides great kits at fair price points.
  • Specialized tires are also a weak spot. They aren't close to comparable Maxxis tires. Interestingly, the Bontrager tires on the Rail are a bit large and heavy, but are better than expected and significantly better than the Specialized tires.
  • For $11,999USD, the Rail 9.9AXS Trek should have integrated the KIOX computer better and run the computer cable internally. The computer sits on top of the top tube like a wart and the cable, which could have easily been run internal, unnecessarily hangs out there. AXS makes for such a clean build it's inexcusable to not do better with the computer. The only thing worse is the standard left-side handlebar mounted computer display on the lesser model Rail bikes.
  • To my eye, the Levo is generally sleeker and a more well thought-out eMTB package. I like the angles on the Rail, but wish the computers were better integrated and the down tube was sleeker like the Levo. Kudos to Specialized for getting a 700 battery in that down tube.
  • As eMTBs go, again both to the trick fantastically, but after days of riding each on a variety of rides, I find the Brose MagS motor to be a better integrated package from a use standpoint (not from a physical packaging standpoint. When you are simply peddling around, the Brose is just a little smoother and comes on less conspicuously, meaning you ride the bike just a little more normally. The pedal engagement and way power comes on in Eco or Trail on the Levo is smoother and better tuned than the Bosch G4 and both are far better than the E8000 Shimano.
  • The Specialized MissionControl application is far superior to the Bosch eBikeConnect app. The Bosch app has lots of screens, but does not allow user tuning and that would be very helpful. In my opinion, the eMTB mode on the Bosch is cool, but needs some adjustment. The MissionControl app allows tremendous customization for each mode and is clean and easy to use. Bosch really needs help in this area.
  • The Rail is a 'bigger' and more capable bike and it is obvious as soon as you hit the trails. The Levo turns more eagerly and quickly and is conversely a little twitchier. That is not to say it's bad and the Levo is tremendously capable and a really fun ride that's probably best suited to my riding style. The Rail, based loosely on a Slash, is super capable and rides great and due to the more modern angles, is stable, long and a little slower handling. It's more bike than I need, but still does well even on flatter trails with tight turns, but requires more aggressive driving the bike in corners than the Levo. The Rail seems like it will shine in a bike park.
  • If you are an all-around trail rider that wants a very well integrated trail bike, the Levo is a little better bike for that and it can be pushed to do bike parks and do well. For that, I'd recommend a 160 air piston. If you are more aggressive and like riding bike parks, the Rail is the right choice.
  • As for battery range I've ridden both on rides of 40+ miles with more than 5000ft of climbing. Both have an excellent range. The Levo may be slightly better, but both are more than sufficient and range is HIGHLY dependent on how you ride and use the motor. Both bikes pedal almost drag-free even without any electrical motor support.
  • RAIL is better for aggressive riders and bike park riders
  • LEVO is better for all-around trial riding and adventure riding

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions.
 
Paul Mac

Paul Mac

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AKAKTM said:
View attachment 30147

I just sold the Levo after riding it about 1050 miles and the Rail 9.9 has almost 200 on it. I've been able to ride the bikes back to back several times which is very helpful. I'll start with some qualitative observations then some relatively more quantitive ones.

Qualitative:
  • Both bikes are very good and are really fun. I expect you'd be happy with either.
  • As mentioned before, the biggest downside to the Rail is the noise. First the motor internal metallic freewheel noise when descending. This is apparently normal for the Bosch G4 motor and will be ignored by many but will be a deal breaker for some.
  • The Rail has also been noisier in general. There is more chainslap and the chainstay protector isn't as well designed as the Levo which probably contributes to the noise. The chain on both bikes is extremely close to the chainstay in the 10T cog.
  • At only 200 miles, my rail also had creaking from the non-drive side crank and one of the motor mount bolts. NO big deal. I removed the crank arm, cleaned and re-torqued and I greased around the motor mount and re-torqued the mount bold and it's quiet again.
  • All of the noise issues with the Rail have been minor and haven't been a deal breaker for me, but in contrast, my Levo had virtually no noise until the cassette and chain became worn and those were resolved by replacing the chain, cassette and chainring.
  • The biggest downside, for some, with the Levo is the motor belt failure rate. I have not had a single issue with the motor on my Levo, but I'm about 180lbs, don't use the highest setting (Turbo) often and I don't lug the motor at a low cadence.
  • Another downside to the Levo and many Specialized bikes is that the spec for their builds and price points is off. In other words, they seem to use relatively cheap parts on 'higher-end' builds. My $8295USD Levo came with basic CODE brakes, 31.8mm aluminum bars, a cheap Command Post, and a basic SRAM 11-speed drive train. By contrast, the Rail XT at a similar price point has a much better kit in my opinion with the latest XT 4-pot brakes, 12-speed XT, etc. This fault irks me about Specialized. Some companies like Ibis Cycles really provides great kits at fair price points.
  • Specialized tires are also a weak spot. They aren't close to comparable Maxxis tires. Interestingly, the Bontrager tires on the Rail are a bit large and heavy, but are better than expected and significantly better than the Specialized tires.
  • For $11,999USD, the Rail 9.9AXS Trek should have integrated the KIOX computer better and run the computer cable internally. The computer sits on top of the top tube like a wart and the cable, which could have easily been run internal, unnecessarily hangs out there. AXS makes for such a clean build it's inexcusable to not do better with the computer. The only thing worse is the standard left-side handlebar mounted computer display on the lesser model Rail bikes.
  • To my eye, the Levo is generally sleeker and a more well thought-out eMTB package. I like the angles on the Rail, but wish the computers were better integrated and the down tube was sleeker like the Levo. Kudos to Specialized for getting a 700 battery in that down tube.
  • As eMTBs go, again both to the trick fantastically, but after days of riding each on a variety of rides, I find the Brose MagS motor to be a better integrated package from a use standpoint (not from a physical packaging standpoint. When you are simply peddling around, the Brose is just a little smoother and comes on less conspicuously, meaning you ride the bike just a little more normally. The pedal engagement and way power comes on in Eco or Trail on the Levo is smoother and better tuned than the Bosch G4 and both are far better than the E8000 Shimano.
  • The Specialized MissionControl application is far superior to the Bosch eBikeConnect app. The Bosch app has lots of screens, but does not allow user tuning and that would be very helpful. In my opinion, the eMTB mode on the Bosch is cool, but needs some adjustment. The MissionControl app allows tremendous customization for each mode and is clean and easy to use. Bosch really needs help in this area.
  • The Rail is a 'bigger' and more capable bike and it is obvious as soon as you hit the trails. The Levo turns more eagerly and quickly and is conversely a little twitchier. That is not to say it's bad and the Levo is tremendously capable and a really fun ride that's probably best suited to my riding style. The Rail, based loosely on a Slash, is super capable and rides great and due to the more modern angles, is stable, long and a little slower handling. It's more bike than I need, but still does well even on flatter trails with tight turns, but requires more aggressive driving the bike in corners than the Levo. The Rail seems like it will shine in a bike park.
  • If you are an all-around trail rider that wants a very well integrated trail bike, the Levo is a little better bike for that and it can be pushed to do bike parks and do well. For that, I'd recommend a 160 air piston. If you are more aggressive and like riding bike parks, the Rail is the right choice.
  • As for battery range I've ridden both on rides of 40+ miles with more than 5000ft of climbing. Both have an excellent range. The Levo may be slightly better, but both are more than sufficient and range is HIGHLY dependent on how you ride and use the motor. Both bikes pedal almost drag-free even without any electrical motor support.
  • RAIL is better for aggressive riders and bike park riders
  • LEVO is better for all-around trial riding and adventure riding

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time to write this review ?
Like yourself I have changed from a 2019 Levo expert to a Rail 9.8.
I agree with most of your observations, but I had lots of problems with my Levo during my 3000 mile ownership, mainly motor and power lead issues
The Rail has so far been 100% reliable in 1000 miles. (Hope I haven't jinxed it!).
Also I don't know if it's a climate thing, I can see you are in California where as I'm in the not so sunny UK, but I have found the Bontrager SE5 tyres not so good, especially in the wet, where I actually liked the Butcher's, so much so that I have just bought a new pair for the Trek, grid for front and black diamond for rear.
Just goes to show what's good of one isn't necessarily good for another. ?
 
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AKAKTM

AKAKTM

Member
Apr 23, 2020
35
53
Santa Clarita, CA
Thanks Paul.

I can see what you are saying about the Specialized tires. Here in Southern California, the conditions are most often hard-packed with a coating of sand/dirt on top, making for fast, but slick conditions. It's the speed and trail conditions that make the Specialized tires troubling. They seem to have flimsy sidewalls and not much body so they squirm and burp easily. I always ran about 5psi more in them than a comparable Maxxis. The Bontrager has performed more like the Maxxis. That said, I'll still go to a tried and true SoCal Maxxis setup (Aggressor/DHF) when I change. The Specialized tires did last pretty well where the Bontrager are wearing more quickly.

I was very fortunate to have near zero issues with the Levo. I am aware of several people that had an experience similar to yours. I also hope that now that I've gone through the Trek and addressed several minor issues that the Trek will be as solid as yours. My shop hadn't done a good job of setting anything on mine up well. The chain was a link too long and the AXS derailleur wasn't setup at all (B-tension and alignment was off). I don't consider those Trek faults as much as the shop so I didn't mention those.

Oh, one other significant issue!!
  • On the Levo, it was very simple for the shop to set the wheel circumference to 2000mm, allowing the bike to pedal to 22.5mph consistently. I LOVED this and it provided me enough speed for most of my faster flat trails. You can really feel the cut off at 18 and I've ridden EU bikes and after riding a bike up to 22, the 15mph cutoff common in the EU is terrible to me!
  • On the Bosch, they make it exceedingly difficult to make any speed adjustments. I've not found a safe way to get the Bosch G4 motor to work reliably up to 20 or 22mph. I REALLY miss that. The KIOX doesn't enable a way and I've had it on the shop Bosch laptop software tool and there is no way to do it there either. I've never tried a SpeedBox or Planet3 but expect the Bosch would detect them eventually.

If anyone figures out how to safely get the Bosch G4 to allow pedal assist to 22mph, PLEASE post here! Tony
 
Doomanic

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The Planet3 is mechanical and should be undetectable. It should work in your climate too, I wouldn't fancy using one in the UK slop. The Speedbox currently works, but for how long?
There is also the Volspeed to consider and has more features than the Speedbox; VOLspeed for Bosch Gen4
 
AKAKTM

AKAKTM

Member
Apr 23, 2020
35
53
Santa Clarita, CA
Doomanic said:
The Planet3 is mechanical and should be undetectable. It should work in your climate too, I wouldn't fancy using one in the UK slop. The Speedbox currently works, but for how long?
There is also the Volspeed to consider and has more features than the Speedbox; VOLspeed for Bosch Gen4
Click to expand...

I believe Bosch has, so far, been able to defeat the Planet3 and I have a pretty good idea of how they have done it.
 
Larsey

Larsey

Active member
Feb 4, 2018
31
37
MN
I just picked up a Rail 7 today. It was a photo shoot bike from Trek for website/catalogs. Pretty nice savings and when I was setting it up tonight I found it has the RockShox Re:aktiv shock like the 9.8/9.9 (unexpected bonus).

Quick 6 mile pavement ride and I believe the motor is quieter than the Shimano (I just rented a Norco VLT 2 27.5 yesterday) but louder than the near silent Levo.

I will be going out for a proper trail ride tomorrow and excited about this bike. Front wheel seems a bit easier to loft vs Levo and I think the EMTB mode feels great.

I really wanted to purchase the new Levo SL but couldn’t justify the extra $2200
 
D

Doug Stampfer

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2018
737
756
NZ
How have you guys found going to the 29er wheels on the Rail? I'm tossing up between a Reign & Rail however most of the tracks I ride are quite tight techy ones & I haven't ridden a 29 before so not sure if I'd like the extra bit of height
 
dochabanero

dochabanero

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2019
193
187
Sweden
Doug Stampfer said:
How have you guys found going to the 29er wheels on the Rail? I'm tossing up between a Reign & Rail however most of the tracks I ride are quite tight techy ones & I haven't ridden a 29 before so not sure if I'd like the extra bit of height
Click to expand...

I also ride some seriously gnarly trails with much rocks, roots and tight twists. For me at least I like the fact it runs 29ers. Helps rolling over all that stuff, and still easy to get around the corners. I do however need to run the mino-link flip chip in the high setting to minimize pedal-strikes. (Have a Rail).
 

D

Doug Stampfer

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2018
737
756
NZ
dochabanero said:
I also ride some seriously gnarly trails with much rocks, roots and tight twists. For me at least I like the fact it runs 29ers. Helps rolling over all that stuff, and still easy to get around the corners. I do however need to run the mino-link flip chip in the high setting to minimize pedal-strikes. (Have a Rail).
Click to expand...
The mino-link flip chip???? Jeepers looks like I'll have to sit through a webinar before riding the thingo_O:LOL:. Thanks for that info. Did you come from a 29 before the rail or 27.5? Some tracks I ride are quite rooty & I can see the benefit.
 
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