Shimano Screen Upgrade Issue (SC-EM800)

[bradmurf]

Hey all,

Bought a bike with a remote and a screen that weren't capable of Bluetooth, so I purchased the screen that would allow it.

Bike came with an EP6, SW-EM800 switch and a SC-EN600 screen I spoke to Shimano and it was confirmed that the SC-EM800 sould be plug-and-play and allow me to use the ETUBE app.

However, I'm having an issue.

With the bike on, I plug in the screen and receive the Steps splash screen, but the bike turns off (lights on the head tube). Bike looks off, screen is also black. However, without touching any buttons, if I unplug the SC-EM800 the bike shows that it's now back on.

Even if the bike looks off, and the screen looks off, if I plug in my remote to the screen the screen flashes STEPS again and then goes black. Screen plugged in=bike off.

The Shimano app can see the SC-EM800, but the Bluetooth connection fails so I can't register the screen, as expected. Warranty issue or is there something else I can try?

Uploaded a YT Short so you can see it.

 

[bradmurf]

Read some stuff about a potential internal battery on the display. So in the meantime I have plugged the bike in to see if that can recharge the display.

 

[Mykolator]

Hi, I recently got the same bike (what a deal at $2.6K btw!), also equipped with the shifter remote in place of the e-bike remote.
I haven’t picked up the screen or the remote replacement yet, but I looked at the compatibility charts and there were two slightly different power button units (the one in the top tube), possibly each only compatible with either sc-en500 or sc-em800. Or maybe they just needed to be wired slightly differently, I think it had something to do with the CAN driver not liking two power buttons connected in sequence or in parallel.
I don’t remember exact details, but I’ll take a closer look at it after work today and report here

 

[Mykolator]

It looks like I mixed some things up earlier. Just read thru Shimano's compatibility documentation, and am now also convinced that SC-EM800 should be plug-n-play with EP6 and EW-SW310.
Please let me know if you manage to figure it out!

 

[RustyIron]

Does the bike operate normally without the display?
If you have the display disconnected, can you go for a five mile ride?

 

[bradmurf]

It looks like I mixed some things up earlier. Just read thru Shimano's compatibility documentation, and am now also convinced that SC-EM800 should be plug-n-play with EP6 and EW-SW310.
Please let me know if you manage to figure it out!

Like I said, I also emailed to confirm that it would be plug and play and they said "Short answer is yes, it's a nice upgrade!"

 

[bradmurf]

Does the bike operate normally without the display?
If you have the display disconnected, can you go for a five mile ride?

I will give it a try. I hadn't tested if there was assist even though the bike shows as "off". I'll do that and see if the screen comes on during that.

Otherwise I think I'll have to return the screen before the return window. Don't need a $300 display sitting on my shelf.

 

[Atyupi]

Shimano ebike system doesn’t have a plug and play function.
you should go to a dealer and resetup your ebike system by wired e-tube project.

 

[Jay Bird]

This sounds like what happens when the input from the motor is plugged into the wrong port. Try the other ports see what happens. This is what mine did when I first installed it. When looking at it when sitting on the bike in rider position my motor connection is the second from left on the backside.

 

[bradmurf]

This sounds like what happens when the input from the motor is plugged into the wrong port. Try the other ports see what happens. This is what mine did when I first installed it. When looking at it when sitting on the bike in rider position my motor connection is the second from left on the backside.

Could have swore i tried all of the ports, even pulled out the dummy-plugs to check if those ports changed the outcome but i don't remember it making a difference. Ill try again just to say i did.

 

[Jay Bird]

Could have swore i tried all of the ports, even pulled out the dummy-plugs to check if those ports changed the outcome but i don't remember it making a difference. I’ll try again just to say i did.

On mine motor is second from left and switch is all the way left.

 

[bradmurf]

On mine motor is second from left and switch is all the way left.

Just tried it in all 4 ports. Same behavior in all ports. I tried connecting it to each port with the bike already on, and also tried connecting it to each port and then turning the bike on with the headtube power button.

In both instances, the screen flashes and the bike stays off.

 

[bradmurf]

Shimano ebike system doesn’t have a plug and play function.
you should go to a dealer and resetup your ebike system by wired e-tube project.

Bike is fully wired for Shimano already. All I'm trying to do it change one model of EP6/Ep801 compatible screen to another EP6/Ep801 screen. There should be no issue. The remote is also compatible with both screens.

 

[bradmurf]

Does the bike operate normally without the display?
If you have the display disconnected, can you go for a five mile ride?

Yes without a screen or remote the bike still works as intended. Power is on the headtube and there is also a mode-switch button on the headtube. In theory you could use no handlebar controls at all and be just fine.

 

[bradmurf]

So the saga has ended and I'm returning the display. The store I bought it from was contacting their Shimano support person and relaying my questions. Here's the gist; Shimano claims that because my remote and the new screen are both Bluetooth there's a conflict and the screen won't work. But I have some different opinions.

My remote (SW-EM800) does not say that it is Bluetooth enabled on the product page. Furthermore, when I try to setup a new device in the ETUBE app it can't find a device and then shows me a compatibility list which DOESN'T include my remote but it DOES show the screen I was trying to use. Some additional info, it does show the SW-EN600 remote in the ETUBE app as a compatible part. Interestingly, if you look at the product page for the EN600 it has a checkmark next to the "Wireless Connectivity" spec, and also has the Bluetooth icon in the description. Either Shimanos product pages are inaccurate and not consistent, or the Shimano rep was incorrect.

Some extra thoughts, there's a chance that either my remote has been broken from the start and it should have Bluetooth access. But there's the app and the website that says otherwise. Also, there is the potential that I need a firmware update for all of these to work together, but unless I buy that $250 Di2 tool that connects to a PC I can't update my components. Maybe a local shop can do that for me just for peace of mind, i'm over the screen swap at this point.

I may put the back and forth via email into another reply in this thread once I organize it all.

 

[bradmurf]

Here's the email thread. Note, the shop was speaking on my behalf and forwarding what I was saying. So a lot of the details about the issue were the same as the original topic of this thread. Hopefully the formatting isn't too confusing.

SHIMANO:
Regarding your request for return of the ISCEM800D, where the customer is stating compatibility issues and the bike not powering on, I believe this could be that the power button on the head tube noted in the claim requires charging – “I hold the power button on the head tube to turn on the bike - the lights on the bike never turn green”. There’s a great resource on S-TEC that describes the process - STEPS SATELLITE POWER SWITCH TROUBLESHOOTING.

Also, regarding compatibility this comes down to what motor is being used. You can confirm this info by looking at this info on the tech site. Here’s a link - https://productinfo.shimano.com/en/compatibility/C-525?q=du-ep800

Anyhow, you’ll have to keep us posted.

Thank you,

----------
SHOP:
Hello and thanks for the fast reply. I received further information from the client, does these changes anything?
Just a few other troubleshooting things I've tried:
- Tried all of the 4 ports on the back with the bike off first, and also all 4 ports with the bike already on
- I read something about an internal battery in the display so I charged the bike from 40% to 100% while the new screen was connected
- With the screen connected, the bike turns off. I rode it around (there was no pedal-assist) to see if the screen would magically kick on, but no result
- The bike works with no screen and no remote connected, but when the screen is connected it shuts EVERYTHING off. It's not just like the screen is disconnected, it takes over the whole system and powers everything off.

Weird issues all around. Thanks for the help!

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SHIMANO:
Did you watch the video on S-TEC regarding charging of the remote power button?

What model of motor is this?

The bike will not work without a display connected as this acts as the ‘A’ junction.

You’ll probably want to get the bike in to diagnose further but at this point I believe there is a solution.

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SHOP:
Hey,I do not know for the motor, but it is a Rossignol bike. He also spoke with a Shimano rep, and he told him it was pretty much plug and play.Here is the update from the client.Thanks for reaching out. Based on the compatibility chart I should be good. As for their response about the satellite button, I think they are misunderstanding.

The bike turns on and works 100% normally with the old screen and remote. And works 100% normally with no screen or remote. However, as soon as the new screen is connected the bike is bricked.

Here's a breakdown of events:
1. the bike can have no screen or remote connected and work fully
2. I change nothing other than plugging in the new screen and the satellite lights immediately go out, pedal-assist is also disabled
3. Again, I change nothing but UNPLUG the new screen and the satellite lights come back on. Without me actually touching the satellite button at all. Assist is also working again.

With the old screen I can plug and unplug it as much as I want and the bike itself always stays powered on and assist works. With the new screen the whole system shuts down as soon as it's connected.

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SHIMANO:
We’ll want to know what model of motor this is. It’s possible that it’s a conflict with the firmware.

There’s also the possibility that there’s two Bluetooth enabled devices equipped on this bike which will cause interference.

However, if this person insists, we can send a new one but I don’t believe the display to be the issue.

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SHOP:
Reply from the client, should he take it to a Shimano dealer to have it looked at? He bought the screen from us but he’s far.

Motor is an EP6 and a Gen2 battery. The remote is a SW-EM800 which doesn't have any Bluetooth connectivity. That's the main reason I was hoping to upgrade to the better screen, so I can do updates and tune with the ETUBE app.

I do agree that there could be some firmware issues with my current components, but I don't have a way to update the firmware since the bike came with no Bluetooth components.

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SHIMANO:
I’ve discovered the issue is because the switch unit equipped (SW-EM800) and the new display (SC-EM800) are both Bluetooth devices. This combination of components won’t work. Either or is compatible with the motor on their own but not together.

They would either need a new switch with the SC-EM800 display or stick with what they had. So long as the display they purchased from you is in re-sellable condition, we could take it back if necessary.

Thanks again,

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SHOP:
Hey Brad,Here is their verdict.What do you think?

----------
ME:
That is so strange. I have tried to get the bike to connect with the ETUBE app a dozen times and this remote never shows up. And then when you use the "help" button in the app it brings you to a compatibility chart that doesn't show the SW-EM800 as a compatible device. It does however show the SW-EN600. See the screenshot attached.

Furthermore, on the Shimano product page for each remote the SW-EM800 doesn't have the "Wireless Function" in the product specs and also does not have the Bluetooth icon on the page. Whereas the SW-EN600 shows the icon and has a checkmark for the "Wireless Function" spec. I'm not trying to be difficult here but could the compatibility chart Shimano sent be wrong? Or is there something else I need to do to get the remote connecting to the app? I turn the bike on, press the + in the app and it just times out and shows me the compatibility list, which doesn't have my remote. Very conflicting information all around.

In regards to the return, it's in perfect condition. Box is perfect, packaging material is all present and the plastic peel is still on the screen, you could put it back on the shelf tomorrow.

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SHOP:
Hello again Brad,Well, it looks like Shimano isn’t really interested in knowing they might have made a mistake unfortunately... They would like you to return the item. I’m sorry this has happened to you; it really sucks when something doesn’t work out the way it should have. I’m going to need the screen and then I’ll be able to ship it to them for a refund.

----------
ME:
No worries! I appreciate you being the middle-man.

Can you send me the address to return it to and let me know if I sho
uld put anything else in or on the box to let you know that it's my specific return?

 

[bradmurf]

Shimano sent this during the email thread and this indicates that the remote should be BT ready, but again the app and the product page says otherwise. Not sure where the disconnect is https://productinfo.shimano.com/en/compatibility/C-525?q=du-ep800

Also going to attach some photos just so if anyone has issues in the future there's some things to reference here.

 

[Mykolator]

TLDR: I think it's a power button conflict!
Did you try connecting ONLY SC-EM800 (your new display) to the motor unit? (with everything else disconnected)

I've followed your investigation and having the same bike I also wanted to connect it with the etube app and expand functionality.
So I went ahead and bought SW-EN600-L and connected it to the bike in place of the SW-EM800 and initially got the same result as you did with the display replaced: everything goes dark when it's connected, everything lights up as soon as I disconnect it.

One of the things Shimano rep has mentioned in the email thread you shared above is potential conflict between components with the same function (eg both the screen and a switch possibly having bluetooth capability).

That cued to try elimination process: disconnecting components one by one to see which combination works.
Result was the conflict was between SW-EN600-L and EW-SW310.

If I disconnect EW-SW310 (and re-connect the SC-EN600 display using the wire that previously connected EW-SW310 to the motor unit) - it works with SW-EN600-L.

 

[Mykolator]

Also, @bradmurf something I came across you might find useful:
>1 seconds press of both buttons on SW-EM800 works like a third button (Enter).

This should allow you to switch between display screens (to see odometer reading, remaining range, cadence, etc) and navigate the menus to change settings (adjust brightness, set time shown on the display, select a different Assistance Profile).

Keep in mind that when you press both buttons at the same time it will still register one of them first, and only register the "third" button in about 1s.
For example, if you want to enter item 2 in the menu:
- first select item 1
- then press "down" and "up" in a rapid succession
- release both after 1-2 seconds
It will go down first and enter item 2.

 

[bradmurf]

Also, @bradmurf something I came across you might find useful:
>1 seconds press of both buttons on SW-EM800 works like a third button (Enter).

This should allow you to switch between display screens (to see odometer reading, remaining range, cadence, etc) and navigate the menus to change settings (adjust brightness, set time shown on the display, select a different Assistance Profile).

Keep in mind that when you press both buttons at the same time it will still register one of them first, and only register the "third" button in about 1s.
For example, if you want to enter item 2 in the menu:
- first select item 1
- then press "down" and "up" in a rapid succession
- release both after 1-2 seconds
It will go down first and enter item 2.

I appreciate your detailed reply! It may be something I revisit in the future. I swore I tried the "press 2 buttons at once" part to try and go through the menus, but I'll try for longer and see if it works.

Interesting that the conflict is with the satellite button on the head tube. I wish I had tried that, but I didn't bother disconnecting that button because that was the only way to turn the bike on and I figured I needed it regardless.

Hopefully your info helps others in the future, still strange for some brands to spec this remote with this screen. I think Nukeproof is another culprit.

Stay safe out there!