Shimano satellite ON/OFF switch problem, or battery, or ???

[NCeMTB]

Hello all

Issue with E8000 Steps system on my wife's Canyon Spectral ON (2021). The Shimano Satellite on/off is just flashing when I press it - no other response from bike, screen lifeless. I've charged the battery on and off the bike (Shimano BT-E8035) and that seems "mostly" normal. Although does shut off after about an hour. No benefit to getting bike back to life. I discovered the issue when I tried to power on the bike to update recent firmware, which I was not able to do as bike that doesn't turn on, can't connect (not super). Here's what I've done so far to troubleshoot:

1. Charged battery on bike - afterwards satellite on/off just blinks green when pressed.
2. Charged battery off bike (warmer in house) - battery LED blinks green 5 times when local switch pressed (same as battery on my Commencal which is working fine).
3. Checked for any loose connections at the display and underside of the Satellite on/off
4. Pressed the satellite on/off without the Shimano battery in the bike - still blinks, no action on screen
5. Plugged into the little USB-C connection adjacent to the satellite on/off - that doesn't seem to work either
6. Held all possible buttons down for 1, 3, 5, 10 seconds - no joy
7. Searched in vain for access to the battery button on the battery when it is in the frame - none on this bike - come on Canyon...
8. Realized there are no "Shimano service centers" in my region.

I'm flummoxed. I'm not sure it's the battery... maybe the satellite switch has a physical or firmware issue... Bike was fine. Has sat for about a month and has been pretty chilly - that's why I brought battery inside. It was charged prior to.

Can't google or YouTube anything of real value. Did learn that I don't want to take the battery apart.

Yup - also in touch with Canyon US (3,000 miles away) - who have been very nice and empathetic but that's about it so far.

Any help / insights would be appreciated (which includes beer of choice of any where in vicinity now or ever).

Thanks much,

Rob

 

[luna87824]

The sealed battery in the switch has gone flat.

 

[MBj1703]

The battery inside power switch is down.
You need to be creative and push the button on the battery inside the bike.
I know from people, they wrapped a zip tie around to do so.

 

[NCeMTB]

The sealed battery in the switch has gone flat.

Great - thank you. How to fix?

 

[luna87824]

Great - thank you. How to fix?

If the battery is not defective, any dealer with a Shimano PC Linkage Device SM-PCE02 will be able to charge it. If the battery is bad you will need to buy a new switch, or you could try to get a warranty replacement if under two years old...

 

[MBj1703]

As said, you need to push the button on the battery while battery is inside the bike.
System will start and charge the power button.

Alternative is the USB Interface PCE02

 

[NCeMTB]

Wow - what a pita. I did tape a bolt to the button on the battery which compresses the battery on/off when you put it in the frame with some (fleeting) success. Satellite button did turn on, as did display - but only for a few seconds. I think problem now is that button remains pressed by the bolt on battery (theory) so now have to come up with a way to press and release button that’s tucked up in the frame.

Geez Shimano and Canyon - couldn’t you have discussed??? You owe us all beers.

 

[NCeMTB]

OK - I think I actually got it. Thanks to all that responded - you were totally right. Between here and some other posts here's how what I learned:
a. Main button on battery had to be pushed while in bike - since there's zero access (honorable mention to Canyon and Shimano) I taped a bolt to the button and then levered the battery up and down to flick it on (but not hold it on). There's enough play in the battery electrical connection while removing it to pull this off.
b. Satellite on/off needs about 30mins of time with main batt on to charge.
c. Don't try to update the satellite switch firmware until it is fully charged again - cost me some re-work time.

Wouldn't have figured it out without those that responded, and some other posts on this forum. Thanks to all!

Best,
Rob

 

[NCeMTB]

As said, you need to push the button on the battery while battery is inside the bike.
System will start and charge the power button.

Alternative is the USB Interface PCE02

Danke!

 

[philippe1]

Had the same problem twice, both times after three days not riding. taped a 14 mm plastic plug to the battery start button and slowly pushed the battery in until display lights up and then left the battery hanging in the first lock, not completely pushed in, after 20 min i removed the plug , pushed the battery in and start the bike. My warranty expires in februari , then I will drill a small 2 mm hole in the frame above the battery start button. The yellow dot in the picture is the position of the bottle holder skrew, the new to drill hole will be invisible, covered by the bottle holder, approx 2.5 cm higher.

 

[luna87824]

Had the same problem twice, both times after three days not riding. taped a 14 mm plastic plug to the battery start button and slowly pushed the battery in until display lights up and then left the battery hanging in the first lock, not completely pushed in, after 20 min i removed the plug , pushed the battery in and start the bike. My warranty expires in februari , then I will drill a small 2 mm hole in the frame above the battery start button. The yellow dot in the picture is the position of the bottle holder skrew, the new to drill hole will be invisible, covered by the bottle holder, approx 2.5 cm higher.

View attachment 103234 View attachment 103235

So the warranty on your frame is up in February?

 

[Mikerb]

Good hacks to get the satellite switch battery charged but the fact that it loses charge if the bike is unused for a while is a sign that the battery is no longer in good condition so a more complete fix is to change that switch I'm afraid.

The fact this is a rechargeable battery but no access is provided to the battery on/off button is a big design failure. I see no issue in drilling a 3mm hole in the appropriate position on the downtube and inserting a bung. My bikes ( Whyte) have a couple of alternative top battery stop locations that are simply holes drilled ready for a screw but filled meanwhile with rubber plugs. The Whyte website sells packs of the plugs/grommets.

 

[philippe1]

So the warranty on your frame is up in February?

No, you are right, correction, frame warranty is not the the same as motor or parts warranty, I should know because I had a few broken chainstays on my bio bikes.

There might be another way to start up but I have not tried it yet. When cleaning/oiling the chain I spin the crank backwards (block pedal/chainring with allen key) when you spin back to hard the bike will switch ON, but this I havent tried with a dead start button battery. I've asked Canyon for a solution .

 

[Mikerb]

You are probably aware of the attached...........getting the satellite switch battery charged by a dealer.........cost probably an hours labour? Personally I would just buy a new satellite switch for c £80 because if the lithium battery has discharged to zero it is probably no longer very healthy. Changing the switch looks easy enough DIY.

The battery may well have just reached end of life but there is also a chance that the circuitry in the switch that controls its charge from the main battery may also be faulty, which caused the battery to discharge in the first place.

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/dm/BT0001/DM-BT0001-04-ENG.pdf

 

[NCeMTB]

Had the same problem twice, both times after three days not riding. taped a 14 mm plastic plug to the battery start button and slowly pushed the battery in until display lights up and then left the battery hanging in the first lock, not completely pushed in, after 20 min i removed the plug , pushed the battery in and start the bike. My warranty expires in februari , then I will drill a small 2 mm hole in the frame above the battery start button. The yellow dot in the picture is the position of the bottle holder skrew, the new to drill hole will be invisible, covered by the bottle holder, approx 2.5 cm higher.

View attachment 103234 View attachment 103235

Excellent - basically exactly what I did. The lack of access to the main switch on the battery is a pretty silly miss. Thanks much.

 

[philippe1]

Canyon service center contacted me Yesterday and they contacted Shimano. This start button batt is NOT charged together with the main batt, it is charged by RIDING the bike or at a shimano service center via computer. Bike has 12000 km, thats a lot of charges/decharges, time to put in a new start button i guess, it's under garanty but I have to bring the bike to a service center, they will charge the batt on the computer, when flat after one week they will put in a new one, but they didn't tell it was free of charge.

They put in a new speed sensor(frame) two weeks ago witch was clearly a warranty case but Shimano said that most speed sensors PROBABLY get broke by a branch or a stone, so , no warranty. Canyon dropped the repair costs but not the speed sensor cost. (doing it myself had been cheaper)

 

[MBj1703]

It is not about RIDING the bike to charge it, it is just needed to turn it on.

 

[Mikerb]

It is not about RIDING the bike to charge it, it is just needed to turn it on.

I agree.....that is what Shimano technical documents say. After all the only difference between the main battery being switched on and actually riding the bike is crank rotation.....and there is no crank rotation if you are freewheeling downhill for example. Pretty shocking that a bike brand knows so little about systems it uses on their bikes.

 

[NCeMTB]

I agree. Switch batt does actually charge off the main batt. Main batt has to be on for at least 30 mins to charge switch batt enough to revive. I suppose switch batt will eventually die - whic would require replacement.

Don’t need to „ride“ - just need to keep the main batt on for 30‘ or more.

 

[eph3]

Didn't fix it for me (activating the switch on the battery with a spacer). Power light comes on and then fades out. Below is a description of my problem.

My brand new Canyon Neuron ON:7 won't turn on. It has the EP8 motor. Did one ride with no problems. Then left it in the garage for 2 weeks during vacation (with about 50% battery). Charged it full when I got home and it won't power on. I've checked all connections (motor, controller), removed and reinstalled the battery, and still nothing. When I long press the power, the button lights up and then fades off. Display does not light up.

I connected my wife's display to my bike, same thing, doesn't work. Then connected her bike to my display and hers still turns on. So my display is good for sure. Battery shows full charge when I remove it and press the button on it (LED flashes green 5 times).

Any ideas?

 

[eph3]

Didn't fix it for me (activating the switch on the battery with a spacer). Power light comes on and then fades out. Below is a description of my problem.

My brand new Canyon Neuron ON:7 won't turn on. It has the EP8 motor. Did one ride with no problems. Then left it in the garage for 2 weeks during vacation (with about 50% battery). Charged it full when I got home and it won't power on. I've checked all connections (motor, controller), removed and reinstalled the battery, and still nothing. When I long press the power, the button lights up and then fades off. Display does not light up.

I connected my wife's display to my bike, same thing, doesn't work. Then connected her bike to my display and hers still turns on. So my display is good for sure. Battery shows full charge when I remove it and press the button on it (LED flashes green 5 times).

Any ideas?

So I got my ebike running. VERY strange and not sure it's really "fixed". Trick was to hit the power button, then pedal forward and the display would come on. Did a short test ride and it mostly worked. Power dropped out a couple times but came right back on again. And now the power button is working normally again. No need to pedal. Maybe it is related to the rechargeable battery in the switch. We'll see...

 

[philippe1]

Didn't fix it for me (activating the switch on the battery with a spacer). Power light comes on and then fades out. Below is a description of my problem.

My brand new Canyon Neuron ON:7 won't turn on. It has the EP8 motor. Did one ride with no problems. Then left it in the garage for 2 weeks during vacation (with about 50% battery). Charged it full when I got home and it won't power on. I've checked all connections (motor, controller), removed and reinstalled the battery, and still nothing. When I long press the power, the button lights up and then fades off. Display does not light up.

I connected my wife's display to my bike, same thing, doesn't work. Then connected her bike to my display and hers still turns on. So my display is good for sure. Battery shows full charge when I remove it and press the button on it (LED flashes green 5 times).

Any ideas?

When the problem is a flat power button battery, you can start the bike by pedalling backwarts. Connect the chainring to one of the pedals with a zip tie or if you have a spider, put an allen key in one of the bolts, pedal firmly backwarts and the bike starts up.

 

[eph3]

When the problem is a flat power button battery, you can start the bike by pedalling backwarts. Connect the chainring to one of the pedals with a zip tie or if you have a spider, put an allen key in one of the bolts, pedal firmly backwarts and the bike starts up.

Thanks, it isn't there power button but I appreciate the advice.

Two days ago the bike rode perfectly & I thought all was good. Then yesterday on a 10km ride it turned itself off about a dozen times. Didn't matter if I was pedaling it not, rough or smooth terrain, uphill or downhill... It was very random. I drove an hour to the nearest authorized service partner. They were stumped but left it with them to try to repair.

 

[scm007]

Any update? My spectral on is like this now. Tell me about the pedaling backwards trick that didn't seem to do anything?

this problem has only started once I bought the adapter to charge the battery off the bike. Left the main battery out of the bike for a couple weeks and now this problem.

 

[RustyIron]

Left the main battery out of the bike for a couple weeks and now this problem.

There is a rechargeable battery in the power switch. When you ride the bike, the battery recharges. Over time, the battery looses capacity, just like every other battery. If you don't ride frequently enough and the battery goes dead, you can't turn the bike on.

The bike store can plug their fancy cord into your bike to recharge the battery. They can also see the integrity of the battery. Maybe Shimano will send you a new switch. Mine was replaced when it was a year and a half old. Unfortunately they wouldn't let me keep the old switch. I'll bet an enthusiastic craftsman could dissect it and install a new battery.

 

[philippe1]

I still have my old switch, problem only occurs in colder months, no problem from april until now, even if not riding for a week. When it happens I put a tool in one of the spider bolts and firmly spin the motor backwarts, it starts up.

 

[scm007]

Got it, I solved it by starting the battery manually with a hard object taped to the button as in the above posts.

 

[Vertex]

@philippe1
Thank you for this solution. I just stumbled across this problem for the first time. At first I could not believe that the switch had a (fully integrated, Shimano are you crazy?) battery. It's really bad engineering not to keep the charge level of the small battery stable with the main battery. If the whole system fails when the main battery is fully charged just because the switch battery is empty, that's a serious design flaw.