Shimano Battery Life Poll

[Cyclopath1000]

I'm sticking to the warning Stephane from commencal gave me a few years ago: don't ever upgrade the firmware if ya know what's good for ya!

As for battery health,I now own 3 8010.s because #1 neg terminal plug cracked on the battery and Shimano said too bad for you dude. So one is currently a paper weight until I either get a new plug or do the mod a poster recently put up on another post. That batt was starting to degrade a bit.

If ya want to get a decent life span out of a removable Shimano battery my advice is don't remove to charge because maybe that process of taking it out and remounting it is what kills the plug that Shimano won't offer a replacement part. Charge your bike with the battery in and never ever take it out. At this point Im thinking broken plug limits battery life way more than what batt health your app happens to show.

 

[militantmandy]

You're not being dense, Shimano don't want you to find this information so they removed it.

Ah I see. Are you lot using a 3rd part app to get this information then? Is this ST Unlocker?

 

[robbydobs]

St Unlocker just reads the info Shimano would have access too. The battery wear also matches the range displayed on the bike.

If you get Shimanos PC or Android app and drop it into a decompiler like Jet Beans or Java decompiler online / APK decompiler - Decompiler.com you can see the code Shimano use to pull this info out, which is what the developers of the 3rd party apps did to see what Shimano were doing.

Anyway, the latest firmware clearly alters the battery wear info on the system, because the wear/range used to be 80% and 49miles and now its 90% and 55 miles so I think they'll be no chance of any warranty, despite one battery being noticeable worse than the other.

 

[Spiff]

Anyway, the latest firmware clearly alters the battery wear info on the system, because the wear/range used to be 80% and 49miles and now its 90% and 55 miles so I think they'll be no chance of any warranty, despite one battery being noticeable worse than the other.

Ther battery wear/health calculation and storage is inside the battery, but as the battery firmware is not upgradable, Shimano could not change the calculation method, so it continues to be the same bad number as before. But looks like Shimano has found a creative way to change this bad number to a good one: When reading the Battery information by etube or a Third Party APP, the flow of battery information is:
** From Battery to Motor via the CAN BUS cable
** From Motor to Display via another CAN BUS Cable
** From Display to APP via Bluetooth

So battery wear/health number calculated and stored in the battery is 80%, same and before, but when it is transfered to the Motor, then the new Motor Firmware replaces this bad number with a better one 90%, probably using a "Translation Table" without any technical re-calculation, and this new "good" number is the one that will appear in the etube or STUNLOCKER APP.

 

[lightning]

My battery "health" had dropped to 77% after about 60 charge cycles, but the reduction in range was not as much as that.

I was getting maybe 30 miles from a full charge, and after fitting a brand new battery it's not that much better, l am still lucky to see over 30 miles.

lt makes me wonder if the battery pack is really deteriorated by the amount showing on the Stunlocker app.

What's other people's experience of actual reduction in range?

With the new battery it dropped from 100% on the 10th charge to 90% on the 11th charge.

This is surely not possible for a battery pack to degrade 10% in one charge cycle. l've stopped monitoring it after that, l may look at it if the actual range starts to drop significantly.

 

[dave_uk]

...battery it dropped from 100% on the 10th charge to 90% on the 11th charge.

Same as mine!

 

[Cyclopath1000]

The only real test is how many vert and how many miles ya get on same trails over time. Some stupid app #s means squat.

 

[electricbogaloo]

So now my battery from 2019 degraded to 93%. The mileage is actually a little more, maybe close to 4k km as I deactivated the motor on longer descents. I took this afte the first 5 rides of the season so idk when it jumped from 97% when I stored it in atumnd to 93% but its interesting that I didn't bother to drain the battery to 20-30% as I did in the last off-seasons. I think it sat aroung 55% or so from november till march. But I also hauled my sister again with the bike so this could also be the reason it degraded. Last time when it showed degradation it was when I hauled her.

 

[lightning]

Well you are doing better than me with that battery, because my new BT-8035 bought in December is down to 87% after 24 charge cycles

 

[electricbogaloo]

I have BT-8010 tho.

 

[gtaadicto]

My year old BT-E8010 hit 40 cycles today,. Its health dropped from 85% to 82%. But I feel its range is way better than my 3 year old battery, also at 82% health at 190 cycles.

 

[lightning]

lt's not good is it, this battery degradation. It's a good job mobile phone and tablet batteries don't do this

Any ideas on which is the better charger to use? Most bikes seem to be shipped with the "slow" charger but some have said the "fast" charger is better at maintaining battery health.

As these chargers are about 1/6th the price of a battery, it might be worth investing in one.

 

[robbydobs]

Well, I've done a range test on my old battery vs a brand new battery. I think the older battery has lost at least 20% capacity after 14 months.

This is *not* just reporting problem with ST Unlocker or E-Tube. The range and capacity loss is real.

I rode the same trails (Steyning), same trail conditions (dry), same bike (Meta Power) and tyres (Maxxis DD), mostly used Boost unless it made sense to use Trail (due to lack of grip up the climbs)

Battery 1, BT E8010 purchased June 2021, gave 801m, 1,229kJ energy used according to strava.
Battery 2, BT E8010 purchased July 2022, gave 986m, 1,485kJ energy used according to strava.

So with the new battery compared to old:
23% increase in climbing
21% increase in energy used

I logged all this with a Garmin so it has captured the battery % used over the ride.

I'm going to try and warranty the old battery, though I don't hold out much hope given Shimano have altered the reported battery wear and removed the 80% guarantee from their website

 

[Growmac]

Well, I've done a range test on my old battery vs a brand new battery. I think the older battery has lost at least 20% capacity after 14 months.

This is *not* just reporting problem with ST Unlocker or E-Tube. The range and capacity loss is real.

I rode the same trails (Steyning), same trail conditions (dry), same bike (Meta Power) and tyres (Maxxis DD), mostly used Boost unless it made sense to use Trail (due to lack of grip up the climbs)

Battery 1, BT E8010 purchased June 2021, gave 801m, 1,229kJ energy used according to strava.
Battery 2, BT E8010 purchased July 2022, gave 986m, 1,485kJ energy used according to strava.

So with the new battery compared to old:
23% increase in climbing
21% increase in energy used

I logged all this with a Garmin so it has captured the battery % used over the ride.

I'm going to try and warranty the old battery, though I don't hold out much hope given Shimano have altered the reported battery wear and removed the 80% guarantee from their website

I got nowhere with Madison on similar, actually slightly worse, issue. Ended up going down the fit for purpose route with the supplying dealer as they were insistent that it was not a warranty issue. I felt bad, but their service was truly atrocious so I didn't lose any sleep.

I filed a Small Claims Court claim. It went to mediation and I'm not allowed to say how it went, but I'm very pleased I did.

 

[jimbob]

I got nowhere with Madison on similar, actually slightly worse, issue. Ended up going down the fit for purpose route with the supplying dealer as they were insistent that it was not a warranty issue. I felt bad, but their service was truly atrocious so I didn't lose any sleep.

I filed a Small Claims Court claim. It went to mediation and I'm not allowed to say how it went, but I'm very pleased I did.

Was that a claim against the supplier if its possible to say?

 

[lightning]

l made a claim on my Shimano battery earlier this year after it had dropped to 78% after 60 charge cycles.

This was on the app, not actual measured degradation as tested above.

I returned the battery to the supplying dealer and after a few questions (mainly how often the bike is used) a new battery was sent to me.

What l have found with these batteries is, when you are out on a ride and it's down to one "bar" on the display, if you hit "Turbo" the battery can shut down, and then you've a slow ride home.

This has happened to me twice.

I no longer use "Turbo" when l am down to one bar on the display!!

l have to say that, despite showing a 78% "health" on the app, the battery definitely hadn't lost 22% of range, it was more like 10%.

 

[Growmac]

Was that a claim against the supplier if its possible to say?

Yes, under UK consumer law your contract is with the entity that sold you the goods, not with the importer / warranty provider.

 

[lockin]

Shimano just released 2nd generation internal and external batteries for Steps engines with new BMS BATTERY | SHIMANO BIKE-EU

 

[WogsRus]

So the funny thing about the second generation thing, my bike is one year old and when connected to etube via PC, it states, second generation battery.

 

[Janc]

Mine is 3.5 years old and on eTupe Pro 5.1 also indicates 2nd Gen? Odd as I didn't think it was as the 504 external was latest technology when I bought my bike. And, eTube Pro no longer gives battery status in terms of how much % it is at full charge which the older versions used to. Mine now shows 51 charge cycles and the actual charge state of the battery ie 100% after a full charge. On ECO mine now shows 56 miles available after a full charge - when new it showed 61 miles. So I'm only down about 5% on capacity which feels about right on usage. I bet about 34 miles and 100m climbing in dry warm weather using mostly Eco. It used to show battery degradation.

 

[Strindberg]

I have

1. three BT-E8010 à 504 Wh down-tube,
2. three years old,
3. three times the same >>> 2nd Gen Battery, since this silly update !!!

All 3 accus have now exactly 103 Loads for each >>> and 32.000 kilometers in 3,5 years, only with Eco High.

But each gives me since 1,5 years only 72, after 68 and now 56 km... !!! (hot or cold season)

The old App shows 81% rest capacity

Never sprint, hillclimbing, only cool long distance.
The first year I had 103 till 115 km for each.

Shimano actually homepage is shit >>
" Battery life: * 1000 cycles * After 1,000 cycles full charging still more than 300Wh=60% (Reference)"

My next, will be with Bosch.

 

[Spiff]

There are lots of complaints because of degradation of 504Wh batteries BT-E8010 and 8035..

But there are no complaints for 630Wh BT-E8016, is there somebody that can comment about his degradation, is it performing better?

 

[cannondalemottera]

i certainly dont want to be that guy that revives a dead horse, but find this to be the best place to ask a question about my 8035 battery.

long story short, my original 8035 battery that came with my Cannondale was around 3 months old. charged it to 100% but didnt get to ride before winter set in. knowing 100% charge tends to kill cells, i used a 1 amp load to discharge the battery. surely enough, the shimano folks designed the battery to brick itself when not recognizing a movement of power.

after replacing the SFK-4030A "battery insurance" fuse, the battery internally bricked itself with a code.

so i bought a new one after seeing rebuilding wasnt an option. while searching for info i see lots of folks have had issues with battery life. i installed a volt meter on the battery charger, calibrate for 10S pack, to monitor charge level.

i store at 70% per the manual (not that a normal user can guess 70% with the displays) and ride to min 20%.

heres the issue/oddity in text form, i charge to a set voltage (say 39.6v/80%) but pop it in the bike it reads 3 bars (40-60% charge). same with 91% charge, it says 3 bars. get down to 1 bar and the pack is actually 41% when i get home. either shimano makes the pack look low so you overcharge the crap out of it or im missing something.

video form of the blunder-

 

[cannondalemottera]

As seen in the video I charge the battery to 80% based on voltage of the pack last night. This morning I checked the voltage and it was sitting at 78% charge since the float voltage came down. I put it in the bike real quick and checked it with st unlocker, it says the battery is at 60% state of charge. Consideration that it may be a calibration issue has been considered but it's not consistent

 

[jimbob]

Are you using a normal shimano battery charger and measuring the charge voltage from that? Or a 3rd party charger?

 

[cannondalemottera]

Are you using a normal shimano battery charger and measuring the charge voltage from that? Or a 3rd party charger?

Using the e6002 charger that came with the bike 42v 2a. Reading directly off the + / - wires once the can bus communication allows the BMS to turn on the outputs. Verified voltage with fluke meter

 

[jimbob]

I've just watched the video - strange. Personally I've never found a discrepancy between St unlocker and the bike display (and I have the exact same bike as you!). Have you tried charging the battery in the bike to see what happens? If its a new battery it may also need calibrating with a full charge?

It would also be interesting to know what the 100% charge voltage is.

 

[cannondalemottera]

I've just watched the video - strange. Personally I've never found a discrepancy between St unlocker and the bike display (and I have the exact same bike as you!). Have you tried charging the battery in the bike to see what happens? If its a new battery it may also need calibrating with a full charge?

It would also be interesting to know what the 100% charge voltage is.

St unlocker is showing right in comparison to the very rough estimating bar meter. The difference is the voltage vs shown percentage. I considering the calibration deal but it seems odd as I'd assume the highest voltage value it's seen so far would be the "100% point". Say you charge to 50% the first time, plug it in. Does it set the 100% bar graph to full as one would expect? It didn't for me. I think first ride was 45% charge. Only had 1 bar on the graph. Rode for maybe an hr. Still had one bar. Haven't gone to a full 100% yet as I'm cautious of the cells health. I suppose it could be something related so I'll give it a shot at some point soon. Max voltage would have to be 42.0 so we'll see what the bar graph/st unlocker says at that time.

Side note, I saw that Shimano removed some data about life after 500 charges and life after 1000. When my first battery locked out, I repurposed the cells into a battery bank. I forget the brand but the cells had a horrible battery life rating. Worse than most li-ion cells. Seems like Shimano is shooting for designed obsolescence

 

[cannondalemottera]

waiting on the last 2 % of charge now.

meter (mine) shows 98% SOC, display on bike shows 5 bar, st unlocker show 91%

 

[jimbob]

How did it end up?