Shimano Battery Life Poll

[guika]

My E-tube is on my iphone and I also have ST-unlocker on the same phone, do either of those apps show you the battery firmware? Checked it after a half charge yesterday and it had gone up to 44 times and still at 95% on my battery.

With etube but only on tablet. Thats what folks said some post before. Make a try.

 

[rikioh]

Same here... 2 Bikes with Shimano 8035... battery build date is Okt. 2019. On both bikes battery went from 100% to 90% after 10 cycles... not sure what firmware, have to check with my tablet...i am trying to keep my battery always between 20-80%


i am not sure if the range really has decreased or not...

 

[Husky430]

Sorry but don't own a tablet, so can't check there for you

 

[papab]

You guys with the degraded capacity, what is the indicated range when the battery is full, before you start riding? Is that lower than it was too?

 

[guika]

For me yes. Less with 10%. And my battery 90%

Shimano accepted my claim and said if it is reach 80% than they will replace my battery.

 

[jimbob]

For me yes. Less with 10%. And my battery 90%

Shimano accepted my claim and said if it is reach 80% than they will replace my battery.

Was that through your local dealer, or speaking directly to Madison?

Its good to know that 80% is the number to wait for before trying for a claim.

 

[jimbob]

You guys with the degraded capacity, what is the indicated range when the battery is full, before you start riding? Is that lower than it was too?

Yes, noticed that the expected range has dropped in line with the degraded capacity. That doesn't mean the actual range has decreased of course, just that that's how the calculation is done.

That said, I have noticed a decrease in range when riding, but could be anecdotal of course.

 

[guika]

Was that through your local dealer, or speaking directly to Madison?

Its good to know that 80% is the number to wait for before trying for a claim.

That was my local dealer.

 

[jimbob]

That was my local dealer.

Thanks. I'm not sure how mine would react asking them to sort a warrenty claim out as I didn't buy the bike from them.

 

[TG1971]

Me and my wife have two identical bikes but hers in small and mine is large, she is 12kg lighter in full kit than me

my bike
26 cycles
87% full charge capacity
Battery bt-e8010
Ec-e6000

hers
29 cycles
99% full charge capacity
Battery bt-e8010
Ec-e6000

she has had hers a month longer than me but we ride same trails together it baffles why mine had degraded so much since aug 2020 and have lost so much range

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Shimano refused to replace the battery, even though it showed only 87% remaining capacity after 22 full charge cycles. Might be time for a class action lawsuit soon...

That's crazy! It took 25 cycles for mine to drop to 99% health. (I was STILL pretty devastated! LOL)

 

[electricbogaloo]

Me and my wife have two identical bikes but hers in small and mine is large, she is 12kg lighter in full kit than me

my bike
26 cycles
87% full charge capacity
Battery bt-e8010
Ec-e6000

hers
29 cycles
99% full charge capacity
Battery bt-e8010
Ec-e6000

she has had hers a month longer than me but we ride same trails together it baffles why mine had degraded so much since aug 2020 and have lost so much range

Maybe a mixture of individual cell quality and higher power demand of the motor due to your higher weight.

 

[TG1971]

Maybe a mixture of individual cell quality and higher power demand of the motor due to your higher weight.

Were pretty fit people coming from normal mtb’s so not over weight but I do think weight of rider could be a contributor, we did a totally flat ride on roads and tracks at the weekend to test range eco all the way I got 28 miles and was out of juice wife had two bars, then next day did same ride, swapped batteries she got 32 miles and was flat I had 1 bars left on her battery and 8 mile range left

 

[jimbob]

Were pretty fit people coming from normal mtb’s so not over weight but I do think weight of rider could be a contributor, we did a totally flat ride on roads and tracks at the weekend to test range eco all the way I got 28 miles and was out of juice wife had two bars, then next day did same ride, swapped batteries she got 32 miles and was flat I had 1 bars left on her battery and 8 mile range left

Interesting, thanks.

Adds to the evidence its real degradation of the battery then. Out of interest, are there any differences in the battery markings you can see such as manufacturing country, part no. Etc? Perhaps they're from different batches and have different cells in them?

 

[TG1971]

Interesting, thanks.

Adds to the evidence its real degradation of the battery then. Out of interest, are there any differences in the battery markings you can see such as manufacturing country, part no. Etc? Perhaps they're from different batches and have different cells in them?

Both same, obviously different SN,
quite pissed off really as branded as taking you further on bigger adventures but in reality on a 3000 ft ride I’m out of battery at under 18 miles in eco and can’t use trail or boost very much because the range will be a lot less love riding them though the e8000 motor is good but battery which was great new has really dropped off in range

 

[Monkey Dog]

I've read this thread with interest.
Does anyone have the BT E8020 & can share their findings?

 

[electricbogaloo]

Were pretty fit people coming from normal mtb’s so not over weight but I do think weight of rider could be a contributor, we did a totally flat ride on roads and tracks at the weekend to test range eco all the way I got 28 miles and was out of juice wife had two bars, then next day did same ride, swapped batteries she got 32 miles and was flat I had 1 bars left on her battery and 8 mile range left

I'm not saying overweight. Even if you consist solely on muscle the motor still has more weight to push because you only use a part of your muscles for pedaling.

It's just a theory but I believe that heavier riders stress batteries more because they use higher assist because the higher the weight the less impressive the assistance gets. I'm at 70kg an rarely use boost because the bike literally leaps forward and I don't like that. But if I would weigt double boost would feel way weaker and I would use it more often which would lead to an empty battery faster even on shorter rides.

Lighter people on the other hand tend to not empty the batteries as much and use them in a healthier range.

 

[TG1971]

I'm not saying overweight. Even if you consist solely on muscle the motor still has more weight to push because you only use a part of your muscles for pedaling.

It's just a theory but I believe that heavier riders stress batteries more because they use higher assist because the higher the weight the less impressive the assistance gets. I'm at 70kg an rarely use boost because the bike literally leaps forward and I don't like that. But if I would weigt double boost would feel way weaker and I would use it more often which would lead to an empty battery faster even on shorter rides.

Lighter people on the other hand tend to not empty the batteries as much and use them in a healthier range.

I agree it’s either weight or riding style I’m 80 kg ex xc racer bit heavier than I was, I ride on average at cadence of 80 in eco nearly all the time and have trail set to low which is great for technical climbing and hate the feeling of boost never use it. When new in summer got 40 miles and 4000 ft of climbing in the lakes but now would be lucky to get 18 miles on that ride.

 

[jimbob]

I've just ordered a second battery (8035) so will do some comparisons between the required input power to charge each when I get ito

I'm not saying overweight. Even if you consist solely on muscle the motor still has more weight to push because you only use a part of your muscles for pedaling.

It's just a theory but I believe that heavier riders stress batteries more because they use higher assist because the higher the weight the less impressive the assistance gets. I'm at 70kg an rarely use boost because the bike literally leaps forward and I don't like that. But if I would weigt double boost would feel way weaker and I would use it more often which would lead to an empty battery faster even on shorter rides.

Lighter people on the other hand tend to not empty the batteries as much and use them in a healthier range.

True, but it shouldn't be making the differences which are being seen!

 

[Growmac]

Afternoon all, just joined up to say thanks for the thread, and add another voice as someone who is experiencing this degradation.

E8035. 11 months old.
43 cycles (2400 km)
83% capacity.
Stored and charged indoors on the 6000 fast charger. As much as possible stored at 60-80%.
The battery is falling off a cliff from about 40%. I don't get any reserve any more, and the last 40% charge only gets me 3 or 4 km.
Madison have indicated that they are not interested until below 60% health. At this rate, that will happen at about 100 charge cycles. Not very good when a new battery is £640. Seriously considering challenging in small claims under consumer rights registration.
Cheers, Gord (Edited as I couldn't spell my own name)

 

[jimbob]

Afternoon all, just joined up to say thanks for the thread, and add another voice as someone who is experiencing this degradation.

E8035. 11 months old.
43 cycles (2400 km)
83% capacity.
Stored and charged indoors on the 6000 fast charger. As much as possible stored at 60-80%.
The battery is falling off a cliff from about 40%. I don't get any reserve any more, and the last 40% charge only gets me 3 or 4 km.
Madison have indicated that they are not interested until below 60% health. At this rate, that will happen at about 100 charge cycles. Not very good when a new battery is £640. Seriously considering challenging in small claims under consumer rights registration.
Cheers, Good

Thats really bad if you're only getting 4km from the last 40%. Did that start recently or has it come on gradually?

 

[TG1971]

Afternoon all, just joined up to say thanks for the thread, and add another voice as someone who is experiencing this degradation.

E8035. 11 months old.
43 cycles (2400 km)
83% capacity.
Stored and charged indoors on the 6000 fast charger. As much as possible stored at 60-80%.
The battery is falling off a cliff from about 40%. I don't get any reserve any more, and the last 40% charge only gets me 3 or 4 km.
Madison have indicated that they are not interested until below 60% health. At this rate, that will happen at about 100 charge cycles. Not very good when a new battery is £640. Seriously considering challenging in small claims under consumer rights registration.
Cheers, Good

I have sent a warranty claim to chain reaction as mine is at 87% at 26 charges and 1000 miles but I guess I will get the same response as it will go to madison, it’s seriously put me off emtb’s

 

[guika]

I've just ordered a second battery (8035) so will do some comparisons between the required input power to charge each when I get ito

True, but it shouldn't be making the differences which are being seen!

Would be great to see that is there any difference between old and new battery FW version. You can check that with a tablet and etube app.
Curious to know.

 

[Growmac]

Thats really bad if you're only getting 4km from the last 40%. Did that start recently or has it come on gradually?

It's been very slowly getting worse, but the cold weather of the last couple of weeks has really exacerbated the problem.

Back in September I rode almost all the way back from the pub, so about 6 km and 150 m of climb, on the reserve.

Last four rides I've not even seen reserve, it's gone to the single red block and then cut out a minute or two later. Of course, the fact that now pretty much every ride is taking the battery from 100% - 0% probably isn't helping? It's very noticeable that none of my Bosch equipped friends are experiencing similar problems in the cold though, or at least to nothing like the same extent.

I'm going to start using the lap timer on the GPS to log how the battery fades - might be instructive. I'll report back. I'm also going to see if I can reset the battery as per a suggestion much earlier in this thread.

 

[guika]

Something is wrong with these batteries for sure. If look on my iphone its say 90% after 1.5 year. I do use it very heavy. Charging it much. Not really taking care on it, fast charge, slow charge, On the charge , whatever. Also I do have Bosch eq. friends and this what we are discussing here, is not present there in that way. So for sure. Something is really not OK. From my side. I was treated well by my dealer. They accepted my claim. Soon I reach 80% it will be replaced. However I hope that the issue have been fixed and the new battery will not be like that. :S

 

[OleP]

First Hello, I'm new to this group and this is my first post.
My native language is not English, so apologize in advance for typos etc.

My bike is not a MTB but an ordinary city/tour e-bike (Gazelle Orange C8 HMS) with a E6100 motor and 504 Wh, BT-E6001 rear rack mount battery.
I've been reading this battery life thread with great interest, as I see some of the same issues with the BT-E6001, even if I only bike on asphalt and sometimes light gravel roads.
We also do not have steep hills here around Roskilde, Denmark (~30 km west of Copenhagen)- No more than 20 - 30 meters, I think.

Here are the resuls for my battery:
1) # of charging cycles = 11
2) remaining capacity = 90%
3) charger = E6000 (fast charger)
4) age = ~3 months

My battery also suddenly jumped from 100% to 90% when charging cycle went from 10 to 11.

Battery has never been below 20% and normally charged up to 80 - 90 % and 100 just prior to a longer run.
Always kept and charged indoor at room temperature.
(I'm retired electronic engineer, so I know how to handle Li-Ion batteries)

I mostly do short trips around 10 - 20 km and to local market only 2 - 3 km, so it's hard to tell if range have been degraded.
Longest trip done so far is 45+ km.
As I've always been measuring things due to my former work in the calibration world, I've made an Excel chart of the calculated range as a function of "(kmTravelled * 100)/ (ChargeBeforeRide - ChargeAfterRide)".
This chart is attached and it show a slight decrease in the linear trend (dottet curve) from app. 82 km to app. 75 km/full charge.
The range decrease can be caused by colder weather, more windy and/or me using higher assist level as ohters have mentioned in earlier posts. If it flattens out in the spring, I'll be pleased. If the indicated battery health decreases again after 20 charge cycles I'll make a claim to the bicycle dealer.
After I saw the sudden decrease in capacity I've measured the energy (Wh) going into the battery during charge with a cheap energy meter and will follow this closely in my spreadsheet too. It is not a precise figure as there are several uncertainties (loss in charger / battery, phase error etc), but it gives a good relative picture if the battery charges up with less Wh over time.

Sorry for the logn post...
Regards Ole in Denmark.

 

[guika]

If Shimano does nothing in the future these might be alternatives:

E-bike Battery-All-Battery Pack-DARFON

www.darfon.com

Shimano E8000 down tube Supercore 20Ah 37146-01 | Batteries | BMZ GmbH

BMZ bicycle battery for drive Shimano E8000 with mid-mounted engine and a capacity of 20Ah at 37V voltage. Best quality only from BMZ with daily shipping and professional support.

ebike.bmz-group.shop

Online sale Simplo Integrated Battery MTB 630 Wh black

Online sales e-bike accessories and components shop Simplo spare parts sales Integrated MTB 630Wh black battery

www.ilovebike.it

Husqvarna is using Shimano engine with Simplo batteries... hmmm is it a coincident ?

 

[jimbob]

It looks like they won't directly replace the internal batteries which is a shame.

I expect someone may start to offer a reconditioning service soon when there is enough demand. If I could find a cheap battery I'd be happy to pull it apart and have a go myself.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

It looks like they won't directly replace the internal batteries which is a shame.

I expect someone may start to offer a reconditioning service soon when there is enough demand. If I could find a cheap battery I'd be happy to pull it apart and have a go myself.

Still waiting for an ifixit video!

 

[guika]

There is a small company in my area :

Li-Ion kerékpár akku felújítás márka szerint - E-bike és rol

Bosch, Li-Ion kerékpár akku felújítás márka szerint, E-bike és roller akku felújítás, Akkumulátor felújítás / cellacsere, Több ezer akku egy helyen!

akkucentral.hu

They offer cell exchange and rebuild recondition etc.... As i see from price point of view its a half price... Maybe at one point i will check them. They offer also measurement. Charge / Discharge etc...