Shame on Bosch! (Warranty)

[D_Ch]

Back in november last year i started experiencing problems with the motor on my Cube, see:

Motor feels like it's skipping...

I have a Cube with the 750Wh smart system. Lately in Turbo (and a bit also in EMTB) it feels like it's skippingevery few revolutions. It does not happen if off or on lower assist modes so i rule out drivetrain issues. Anyone with a similar behavior that can share what it might be? Thanks!

www.emtbforums.com

Since i was not hallucinating, the shop was able to confirm the motor is not running smoothly under higher loads.
So about three months ago, they started the claim with Bosch for it; in all this, keep in mind that the shop is among the top three or four biggest Bosch dealers in the country.
- Took the shop a lot of time and effort to even get Bosch to open the case and accept the motor back for repair (or exchange).
- Eventually the motor goes back to Germany and comes back 'checked' (did not even claim they tried to fix it)
- Obviously has the same problem and they send it back again.
- Back and forth, and Bosch declares it is within tolerance.
- The shop tries a new motor on my bike, to eliminate other variables; works perfectly.
- They try with the returned original one: same defect.
- At this point they are trying other ways for Bosch to acknowledge there even is a problem.
I can't complain about the shop, and they apologized in every occasion and thanked my understanding attitude; so far they even paid for all the back and forth shipping and labor.
It is beyond shameful for Bosch to be behaving like this; the motor clearly has a problem, regardless of how they test it for being 'within tolerance'. And yet they refuse, so far, to even admit the problem exists, let alone fix the damn motor or exchange it for a new one.
Meanwhile I, the end customer, have a bike with a skipping motor since late last year and not even with me since early this year; the shop, a very big dealer for the brand, is losing reputation, money for shipping and time and labor.
I truly hope the story will end well, but in each step it's going in the wrong direction for it to happen.
I want to document how such a big brand can act wrongly and stubbornly against their responsibility in a warranty case.
Thanks for reading and wish you'll never have to go through something similar,
D.

 

[Stihldog]

Back in november last year i started experiencing problems with the motor on my Cube, see:

Motor feels like it's skipping...

I have a Cube with the 750Wh smart system. Lately in Turbo (and a bit also in EMTB) it feels like it's skippingevery few revolutions. It does not happen if off or on lower assist modes so i rule out drivetrain issues. Anyone with a similar behavior that can share what it might be? Thanks!

www.emtbforums.com

Since i was not hallucinating, the shop was able to confirm the motor is not running smoothly under higher loads.
So about three months ago, they started the claim with Bosch for it; in all this, keep in mind that the shop is among the top three or four biggest Bosch dealers in the country.
- Took the shop a lot of time and effort to even get Bosch to open the case and accept the motor back for repair (or exchange).
- Eventually the motor goes back to Germany and comes back 'checked' (did not even claim they tried to fix it)
- Obviously has the same problem and they send it back again.
- Back and forth, and Bosch declares it is within tolerance.
- The shop tries a new motor on my bike, to eliminate other variables; works perfectly.
- They try with the returned original one: same defect.
- At this point they are trying other ways for Bosch to acknowledge there even is a problem.
I can't complain about the shop, and they apologized in every occasion and thanked my understanding attitude; so far they even paid for all the back and forth shipping and labor.
It is beyond shameful for Bosch to be behaving like this; the motor clearly has a problem, regardless of how they test it for being 'within tolerance'. And yet they refuse, so far, to even admit the problem exists, let alone fix the damn motor or exchange it for a new one.
Meanwhile I, the end customer, have a bike with a skipping motor since late last year and not even with me since early this year; the shop, a very big dealer for the brand, is losing reputation, money for shipping and time and labor.
I truly hope the story will end well, but in each step it's going in the wrong direction for it to happen.
I want to document how such a big brand can act wrongly and stubbornly against their responsibility in a warranty case.
Thanks for reading and wish you'll never have to go through something similar,
D.

They make good motors but you may have gotten a lemon.
Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[D_Ch]

That is what warranties are for.
And it's what i'm complaining about.
Of course there are lemons, but for Bosch to try and not fix the situation is what is wrong.

 

[lockin]

Looks like Shimano is not the only one that is lacking a good will to help end user

 

[yorkshire89]

That's poor, hopefully your Bosch rep comes to their senses and replaces the motor for a new one!

I've only had good things from Bosch warranty personally. Dead motor (9 months out of warranty), report went to the Bosch rep on Friday. New motor arrived today (Monday) and I'm just about to head out for a test ride.

 

[valecek]

thats crazy, I had bosch performance line 2021,
after the engine bearings cracked, a new engine was sent to me a month before the warranty expired ( I had massive OTB )

 

[D_Ch]

I should know more this week; indeed it's quite odd the way they are dealing with this. And that from the major dealer; they can't quite believe they did not get a new motor yet...
I'll update the post with news; hopefully good ones.

 

[E-MAD MALC]

I should know more this week; indeed it's quite odd the way they are dealing with this. And that from the major dealer; they can't quite believe they did not get a new motor yet...
I'll update the post with news; hopefully good ones.

By the way how many miles we talking about on the motor

 

[RustyMTB]

That's poor, hopefully your Bosch rep comes to their senses and replaces the motor for a new one!

I've only had good things from Bosch warranty personally. Dead motor (9 months out of warranty), report went to the Bosch rep on Friday. New motor arrived today (Monday) and I'm just about to head out for a test ride.

Wait, what? Nine months out of warranty & they honoured it? How does that work? Not doubting you but I'm interested in the story if you can elaborate.

 

[bazxa]

I'm experiencing poor bosch warranty with an18 mth old gen4. the motor was intermittent in operation and it finally stopped completely. After 3 weeks stuffing around it is running again, no new parts, no repairs, just disassembled and reassembled several times. It is now classed as 'fixed'. Thats true until it stops next time. Very poor customer service

 

[cappuccino34]

Try a Giant if you really want dreadful after sales support.

We need some proper legislation, or at least proper enforcement of existing consumer legislation.

The only motor supplier that I can't fault is Polini.

 

[smarty]

For UK based people take a look at the consumer rights act 2015. Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Which?

It's completely separate from warranty and covers purchases for up to 7 years. You could easily apply this legislation to this situation.

 

[Horsesoldiers]

I also had an issue with a warranty on an 7 month old bike. Bosch took months to acknowledge the issue and eventually change the motor under warranty. Seems their UK customer service is understaffed and the German help desk is the exact opposite.

 

[cappuccino34]

For UK based people take a look at the consumer rights act 2015. Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Which?

It's completely separate from warranty and covers purchases for up to 7 years. You could easily apply this legislation to this situation.

I tried that route with Giant and it ended up with the only option being taking them to court, which is what they are hoping because the costs involved, including the time off work, adds up to more than just buying a new motor.

The whole situation is disgusting.

It ends up that the only 'power' you have is to dissuade as many people as possible from buying their bikes.

Only Specialized seem to have good after sales, but their Brose motors are so bad that without good support nobody would be stupid enough to buy a full fat Spesh.

 

[smarty]

You could apply that legislation to the bike shop as it's where you purchased it from. I know that they seem to be good, but any retailer would know the existence of this legislation. Also if you paid with a credit card you can pursue it via the credit card provider as they are jointly liable under the law. It's all very stressfull though. I went through it with chain reaction cycles and it seemed to work. I then bought a levo for the obvious reasons. Good luck with it

 

[cappuccino34]

You could apply that legislation to the bike shop as it's where you purchased it from. I know that they seem to be good, but any retailer would know the existence of this legislation. Also if you paid with a credit card you can pursue it via the credit card provider as they are jointly liable under the law. It's all very stressfull though. I went through it with chain reaction cycles and it seemed to work. I then bought a levo for the obvious reasons. Good luck with it

It always seems unfair putting pressure on the bike shops because they only supplied it (if they even did), they didn't actually make it, so a manufacturing fault isn't their fault. Plus, the money that they are allowed to process a warranty claim and actually do the warranty work is pretty pathetic; typically around €45 to liaise with the customer, diagnose the fault, fill out the claim, order (and often pay for) the parts, book in the installation job, do the repair and then process the payment claim. Several hours of work for typically just €45.

This is why so many 'cut price' suppliers tell you to go to a shop who is a dealer for your particular brand of motor. You can't blame the shop for not wanting to deal with your problem. It's why I won't buy online.

It's no wonder that many shops are stopping doing e-bikes these days, they aren't worth the aggro to them..

 

[yorkshire89]

Wait, what? Nine months out of warranty & they honoured it? How does that work? Not doubting you but I'm interested in the story if you can elaborate.

The motor itself isn't that old but the bike is. Bosch did have a 2 year rolling warranty when I bought the bike but I don't think that's a thing anymore.

I've had the motor replaced 2 times outside of the original 2 years

 

[cappuccino34]

The motor itself isn't that old but the bike is. Bosch did have a 2 year rolling warranty when I bought the bike but I don't think that's a thing anymore.

I've had the motor replaced 2 times outside of the original 2 years

In New Zealand all warranties are on the age of the actual part, so if it's had a replacement, it gets a fresh warranty as if new.

It prevents manufacturers from washing their hands of a poor product, they have to stand on.

It's a bit like the 'Lemon law' in America.

 

[Rostle32]

Wait, what? Nine months out of warranty & they honoured it? How does that work? Not doubting you but I'm interested in the story if you can elaborate.

I cannot fault Bosch on their support service.
My 2020 Rail 7 developed a fault,( powering on, then shutting down in Jan23) I tried wife’s battery to see if that was the issue, still the same! Rang supplying bike shop, Edge Cycleworks( Lancaster UK) took the bike in and left it with them, bike also had a potential frame crack, so forward 5 days, Trek would warranty new frame, and Bosch would warranty a new motor! 7 months out of warranty !!! Bosch and bike shop have been A1

 

[smarty]

It always seems unfair putting pressure on the bike shops because they only supplied it (if they even did), they didn't actually make it, so a manufacturing fault isn't their fault. Plus, the money that they are allowed to process a warranty claim and actually do the warranty work is pretty pathetic; typically around €45 to liaise with the customer, diagnose the fault, fill out the claim, order (and often pay for) the parts, book in the installation job, do the repair and then process the payment claim. Several hours of work for typically just €45.

This is why so many 'cut price' suppliers tell you to go to a shop who is a dealer for your particular brand of motor. You can't blame the shop for not wanting to deal with your problem. It's why I won't buy online.

It's no wonder that many shops are stopping doing e-bikes these days, they aren't worth the aggro to them

So how far do you take this? Say I buy a laptop from an electronics shop and the hard drive dies a few months later. The shop didn't make the laptop so they are excused?

if you can't operate a business within the law the don't operate it.

 

[cappuccino34]

So how far do you take this? Say I buy a laptop from an electronics shop and the hard drive dies a few months later. The shop didn't make the laptop so they are excused?

if you can't operate a business within the law the don't operate it.

Agreed, but a faulty laptop is much easier for the retailer to replace.

I'm friends with my LBS, and see the hassle and stress they have to deal with on a regular basis and, frankly, it stinks because of a severe lack of support from the manufacturers.

As already stated, Specialized are the product support exception, and Polini are the reliability exception. Mahle seem to be pretty reliable too though.

 

[E-MAD MALC]

Don't really here much
But do you reckon the electric car market has the same problems
If they don't what it's saying is the bike motors aren't built to the exacting standards that's required from them

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

when mine started playing up this guy fixed it - while I waited eBike Motor Repairs & Servicing - Homepage

 

[edruid]

I'm on my 3rd warranty motor after purchasing a GEN54 in 2020. Bosch have been really good (apart from cancelling the rolling 2 year warranty which I thought was sneaky). Sounds like you have had a less satisfactory service

 

[Ark]

Imagine if motorbike/car engines weren't repairable with parts and you had to buy a whole new motor lol.....
Some government or the EU needs to slap Bosch, Shimano and anyone else around with a few billion dollars fine for being ridiculous and anti consumer

 

[Tooks]

But do you reckon the electric car market has the same problems
If they don't what it's saying is the bike motors aren't built to the exacting standards that's required from them

EVs, like any tech, can have their problems but I don’t hear much about motor failures in the near decade I’ve owned an EV and been on the forums.

Plenty of software issues, but electric motors seem to be pretty solid on cars.

I suppose that bike motors have different challenges in terms of size vs weight vs waterproofing vs power vs cost. My Bosch washing machine motor is still going great after 15+ years though, and fingers crossed my Shimano, Mahle and Tongsheng bike motors are all still A1 as well.

Any manufacturer should stand behind their product with a solid warranty though, or get out of the business.

 

[Geeman]

when mine started playing up this guy fixed it - while I waited eBike Motor Repairs & Servicing - Homepage

I'm just in the process of sending my Gen 4 to these guys. Any

 

[Tony4wd]

At least for 2023 new bikes can be purchased at a discount greater than the cost of a new motor - takes a bit of stress out of dealing with warranties, should you have a problem.

 

[maynard]

Bike shop should give you new bike

 

[wenna]

IMO the bike shop should swap the motor and then continue the fight with Bosch without you.