Setup after a bad crash!

[Trumpet]

Morning People.

About 5 weeks ago a had a bad front end wash out crash on the Turbo Levo. A and E job. I've had a few of these wash out crashes on the Levo now so I've been tinkering with the setup as most of my confidence has gone. I've slammed the stem to get more weight over the front end, adjusted the fork and shock pressures, I run the stock Butchers tubeless at F20, R25. Now looking to swap out the stock 27mm riser bars for something a bit lower. Undecided to go down to a 20mm or 10mm rise. Has anyone else experienced these wash outs on the Levo or any other 29er? And what rise would people go down to? Many thanks.

 

[MitchF]

Can’t help on the tech stuff but there’s a good article in MBR mag this month on coming back from a crash.
It may help, hope you get your confidence back ???

 

[lumpy]

I had washouts a few times but I didn't go down. I set my flip chip back to the high setting and that made a huge improvement. I also dumped the Butchers and now have Maxis Minions and they feel much better too.
I haven't changed the rise on the bars

 

[Dax]

Let a sniff of air out the front tyre

 

[Russell]

Try different tyres. My originals that came with the bike were total crap compared to the minions I have now. They would wash out un controllably all the time where as the minions are stuck fast.

 

[Trumpet]

Let a sniff of air out the front tyre

Try different tyres. My originals that came with the bike were total crap compared to the minions I have now. They would wash out un controllably all the time where as the minions are stuck fast.

Just ordered a pair of DHR 2 Max Terra. I advised my mate to get a set for his Levo and I just had a go. S##t to a blanket. Those Butchers are going in the bin!

 

[Rusty]

Just ordered a pair of DHR 2 Max Terra. I advised my mate to get a set for his Levo and I just had a go. S##t to a blanket. Those Butchers are going in the bin!

Keep the Butchers for when you sell the bike.

I found they had great traction when climbing and pretty good grip when braking but were very poor when transitioning from braking to cornering. That to me it ptobably the most critical thing I look for in a tire as the other two I can compensate/adapt to.

 

[Rawry]

This happened to me a few times so i put a Magic Mary on the front and it made a massive difference I also use one on the rear in the winter months.

 

[Sherman]

Shaving few mms off the bar height won't probably do much. Tires are one thing to look for.

But spending money on mtb coaching session would probably make the biggest difference.

 

[Marcelfacd]

I have a 40mm rise with a 31mm stem so shorter and higher is not possible (due to an arterial condition) and didn't experience any washouts, not even with the Butchers (not a fan but OK enough)
Maybe to as what Sherman points out; don't know about your experience on bikes and specifically on 29'ers and slack angles but you really have to ride them 'moto style',stay upright and push the bike in....it can really eat corners in that way

 

[Mikerb]

Blame the kit or look at your technique? Thats the choice. On an e bike you are likely to be going faster and there is more centrifugal force on a corner both due to the extra speed and extra weight of the bike. So your cornering technique has to compensate. You are focusing on pushing more weight onto the front wheel but that could make things worse.
Why would a front end lose grip? Too much speed, too much steering angle, braking too late, using the front brake in the corner, tyre wall squirm due to too low a pressure, bike banked over too much.
Low tire pressures provkde more grip and compliance over rooty ground etc but that can be at the expense of tyre wall roll on cornering hard.....depending on the construction of any particular tyre so I would go with more tyre pressure. I run butchers with tubes and 27psi on the front. Other than that I would study cornering technique using some you tube videos.

 

[paquo]

But spending money on mtb coaching session would probably make the biggest difference.

or maybe just being more careful and reading the surface conditions ahead better

 

[Gary]

You simply need to weight the front more.

It doesn't matter what pressure your front tyre is at or what rise your bars are or where your flip chip is configured if you're not physically over the front enough and weighting the front tyre.

No idea where the notion you have to ride 29ers "MOTO style" comes from. it's a slightly heavier mtb so just ride it like you would all mtbs.
The more you ride. The more you'll improve.
the Levo's geometry isn't particularly slack or particularly anything other than quite neutral/safe infact it's fairly mediocre handling wise so i'd stop overthinking that for a start.

 

[Marcelfacd]

You simply need to weight the front more.

It doesn't matter what pressure your front tyre is at or what rise your bars are or where your flip chip is configured if you're not physically over the front enough and weighting the front tyre.

No idea where the notion you have to ride 29ers "MOTO style" comes from. it's a slightly heavier mtb so just ride it like you would all mtbs.
The more you ride. The more you'll improve.
the Levo's geometry isn't particularly slack or particularly anything other than quite neutral/safe infact it's fairly mediocre handling wise so i'd stop overthinking that for a start.

Lean the bike, not the body.....that is where moto style comes from (same technique as on a motorbike)
Many people ar still new to the 29'er world, on a 29er you need to push your bike down more (hence the wider bars for more leverage) than you had to on say a 26.

Indeed the geo of a Levo isn't upsetting compared to nowadays bike, but it is when your previous bike is more than 6-7 years old or you are new to mountainbiking.

 

[Gary]

Lean the bike, not the body.....that is where moto style comes from (same technique as on a motorbike).

Sorry but that's absolutely terrible advice. We don't even know what type of corner @Trumpet was washing his front wheel in.
Motorcyle handling physics, geometry and weight are quite different to mtb. so why even mention them? You're only confusing the issue by being obtuse.
Unless of course @Trumpet's Levo is 100kg and his Brose motor is throttle controlled and outputs twenty times the standard horsepower.
in which case even a Maxgrip DHRII isn't going to cut it

 

[Marcelfacd]

Sorry but that's absolutely terrible advice. We don't even know what type of corner @Trumpet was washing his front wheel in.
Motorcyle handling physics, geometry and weight are quite different to mtb. so why even mention them? You're only confusing the issue by being obtuse.
Unless of course @Trumpet's Levo is 100kg and his Brose motor is throttle controlled and outputs twenty times the standard horsepower.
in which case even a Maxgrip DHRII isn't going to cut it

Stretching inside corner arm, outside corner shoulder towards handlebar, body axis more a less straight up.....just like when cornering a motorbike. Has nothing to do with weight, HP etc.

NB your advice ' keep practicing' was indeed far more valuable.

 

[Marcelfacd]

 

[Gary]

STOP IT

STOP IT NAO!!

the moto guy is SAT DOWN foot out twisting a throttle FFS!!

the mtber is trying to intentionally get low enough to bar drag for the camera both feet on.
Clue: he's not even looking towards his exit.
#Instastyle

 

[Marcelfacd]

STOP IT

STOP IT NAO!!

the moto guy is SAT DOWN foot out twisting a throttle FFS!!

the mtber is trying to intentionally get low enough to bar drag for the camera both feet on.
Clue: he's not even looking towards his exit.
#Instastyle

Your making smoke.

 

[Gary]

Nah... Just a fart

 

[Gary]

Smells of stale beer

 

[Rusty]

@[U]Marcelfacd[/U] You are correct to a certain point & Gary does have some valid points. However, having raced MX up to international level and doing a lot of club MTB racing when I started riding them 20 years ago there is one certain premise that holds true ...
If you are in full control of your front wheel you can usually corner faster and get yourself out of trouble easier. This also appies to road racing motorcycles or bikes.

With ebikes we tend to be going a little faster into and through corners than we did on conventional bikes so any slackness or bad habits often end up biting us. In Trumpet's defense - Butchers are crap going through transition and can lead to confidence issues causing the rider to try to adjust technique - often to his/her dertiment.

I do believe coaching is something that everyone can benefit from of you are interested in increasing your skills - or even just having someone point out your bad habits.
Have seen a world championship level MX racer who has been on MTB all his life at a coaching clinic recently. One of the things he picked up was that he was slower into corners than he should be due to bad technique. By turning OUT for a microsecond before turning in you go through transition faster and get better bite from your front tire.

 

[Trumpet]

Hi chaps. Been to Cannock today, very moist and slippery. Hate the place to be totally honest. Front end was all over the place at 19psi. Had a go on my mates comp carbon Levo, running a set of minion DHR2... Different league. Felt planted and stable. Jumped back on mine, lowered the tyre to 15psi and started to get some traction. Still nowhere near the Minions.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Found the butcher's to be quite limiting. Good in certain conditions, hairy in others. That would be my first choice. Second would be coaching your body position and technique could be wrong. Heal up.