Rocky Mountain Instinct Powerplay

[FreeZ]

Hello!

Here we can discuss about Instinct Powerplay

I can start with my new bike. Been riding more than 10 years and now 2 years with emtb. Have had Spectral:ON and carbon LEVO.

I bought Instinct Powerplay Alloy 50 and started to make it to be what I like. So far not so many changes but in some nice stuff is already coming to me.

Fork is MRP Ribbon Coil
Seatpost Reverb AXS(coming)
SRAM Eagle AXS drivetrain(coming)
Syntace/PRO bar and stem with Ergon grips
Specialized Power saddle
Onza Aquila/Spesh Slaughter tires now and Aquila/Aquila when wet trail comes

Not so much riding yet with that bike but it feels awesome! Motor have so much torque and feels super natural.

 

[StrikeForceMTB]

What other EMTB's have you compared this too before making the choice for this one to be your new ride? Why did you choose this over the RM Altitude Powerplay?

 

[Greny]

Hello!

Here we can discuss about Instinct Powerplay

I can start with my new bike. Been riding more than 10 years and now 2 years with emtb. Have had Spectral:ON and carbon LEVO.

I bought Instinct Powerplay Alloy 50 and started to make it to be what I like. So far not so many changes but in some nice stuff is already coming to me.

Fork is MRP Ribbon Coil
Seatpost Reverb AXS(coming)
SRAM Eagle AXS drivetrain(coming)
Syntace/PRO bar and stem with Ergon grips
Specialized Power saddle
Onza Aquila/Spesh Slaughter tires now and Aquila/Aquila when wet trail comes

Not so much riding yet with that bike but it feels awesome! Motor have so much torque and feels super natural.
View attachment 16205

And you liking it , thinking of buying one , I’ll know more on Tuesday of I can get one from 2019 with discount. First 2020 models have arrived here in France

 

[Eddy Current]

@FreeZ any updates? You like it more than the Levo/Spectral?

 

[thbo]

Did you end up riding Instinct Powerplay or go back to Levo?

 

[Drleduc]

Giving my experience on a 2020 RM PP Instinct A50 BC Edition (Large).

I usually ride a 2017 RM Slayer 750MSL (30lbs) and my weight was 100kg (220lbs), plus a camel back (and bear spray

I took a demo out over the weekend and will do another this weekend. Overall I would say it was one of the best rides I did in a long time. I did 21.5km (13.3 miles) with 642m (2,100ft) of elevation gain. More or less up a ski hill. I ran it down a few black and blue rated trails.

The power was really impressive. At one point I climbed “the wrong way” up a blue trail which had a few points of 14.1% grade and was literally laughing from the shock of cleaning the tech and almost all sections.

The black XC downhill trail had some points of 22% grade, very rutted and with roots. The bike handled well without issues, the front suspension is a RS Lyric and similar to the one I have on the Slayer although I felt it had slightly more deflection (forward / back). Brakes on the downhill handled well, rear suspension travel was adequate for the trails, I took a few jumps, very noticeable weight compared to a Slayer carbon, but expected. I used to ride a 2006 Kona Stinky (43lbs), so the weight is manageable and does feel much more planted then I expected, The motor basically compensates easily for the weight.

Battery use: 62% (38% left) over a 21.5km ride with 642m elevation gain. I used the app to adjust the power “stages”, 45%, 80%, 100%. Since it was my first ride on it, I did a lot of 80% and 100%, but basically dropped it to 45% or “off” on downhill sections.

Great bike, made the whole ride very enjoyable. It is on the short list and will compare it to the Altitude PP as the WB is similar to the Slayer

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

I searched this forum and didn't find any discussion on it but I'm looking for measurements on the rear shock (eye to eye) for the 2020 Instinct Powerplay A50 BC. The original shock is a Fox Float Dpx2 Performance.

I have this bike arriving in 8 days and would like to order a Cane Creek DB IL coil shock and the Rocky Mountain Overtime battery pack so that they all arrive at the same time. By any chance, do you gents know?

 

[Eddy Current]

I searched this forum and didn't find any discussion on it but I'm looking for measurements on the rear shock (eye to eye) for the 2020 Instinct Powerplay A50 BC. The original shock is a Fox Float Dpx2 Performance.

I have this bike arriving in 8 days and would like to order a Cane Creek DB IL coil shock and the Rocky Mountain Overtime battery pack so that they all arrive at the same time. By any chance, do you gents know?

210mm eye to eye. Don’t worry if the new one is a bit longer because you can play with the ride9 chip. Many owners ride 170mm shocks and coils at the rear so ...

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

@Eddy Current awesome. Thank you so much.

 

[Eddy Current]

@Eddy Current awesome. Thank you so much.

Get on the facebook group we are a few owners here. There you have tons of info

 

[Dan63]

Altitude and Instinct run a 210x55mm shock.
Instinct BC runs a 216x63mm (8.5x2.5") shock for the longer travel

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

Awesome. Thank you @Dan63

 

[thbo]

OP is still looking forward to getting my Instinct BC C90 Powerplay in about March!

Meanwhile snowing about 60 cm a day ...

Can anyone rocking a 2021 model in warmer climates post a picture?!

 

[Dan63]

Plenty of pictures and great info on the Rocky Mountain Powerplay facebook group

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

Thank you all for the assist with the rear shock dimensions.

I've been running the cane creek DBcoil IL and Overtime battery pack for 4 months now. I've found that the Overtime pack is the perfect compliment to the Mountain Tuning Tool (MTT). Without it, the main battery drains quick especially when running the motor at 22 amps (1056 watt) using the MTT.

I've been wanting more top end speed so I recently swapped out the original Raceface 34T chainring with a Wolf Tooth 104 BCD Drop-Stop ST 36T chainring. Slight modification to the right motor cover and removal of the lower chain guide are needed to make it fit. Now the bike is twice as torquey and gets to 28mph without hesitation. IMO 36T chainring should be standard on all e-mtb. It makes them run like a beast.

Next mod is to swap out the original 175mm Raceface crank arms with 165mm so I can pedal out of corners faster without pedal strikes.

 

[nineT]

That looks great!
I was concerned about the reduction of the number of engaged teeth on the chainring when skipping that lower chain guide.
More wear is certain, but after around 7000 km mine is still in a very good condition. So a bit more should not be the issue.
Also good to hear that the sensor still works as it should with the 36t chainring. I think this is why it feels more tourqey.
Tested mine with a 33t and had tp push harder for the same support...
Have you already given the cranks a hard push while hitting serious bumps ? Chain not leaping ?

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

The chain was a concern so I went to a local high school and rode up 4 flight of stairs, rode down 18 flights of stairs, and did some 2 foot ledge drops and the chain stayed on.

I run the same 36T Wolf Tooth chainring on my 2019 Motobecane (same as Vitus E-Sommet) and the chain has never dropped off. This bike just has STFU chain silencer and no chainguide on it. It was this reason why I stuck with the same chainring.

Anywho I'll continue testing and try to make the chain come off.

 

[thbo]

No chainring swap or MTT Tool here as I think it pulls enough in ludicrious mode but also sucks battery juice like an idiot (in both orange and red mode). For my typical range single track rides I mostly bike in green set to 30% and orange set to 60% for the few times that I need it. As I sadly can’t fit an overtime pack on my BC C90.

Interesting to hear experiences with mods though.

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

Did this ride this morning and took the same route back. I tried to shift under load as often as I could and the chain never came off. It may not come off as long as the clutch on my rear derailleur is on. Also this trail is short and have never needed to bring the Overtime pack on this trail but for testing purposes I used it for this ride. With the bike set up for 22 amps riding at power level 6 (out of 8), it only used 2 battery bars (out of 7).

 

[Eddy Current]

Thank you all for the assist with the rear shock dimensions.

I've been running the cane creek DBcoil IL and Overtime battery pack for 4 months now. I've found that the Overtime pack is the perfect compliment to the Mountain Tuning Tool (MTT). Without it, the main battery drains quick especially when running the motor at 22 amps (1056 watt) using the MTT.

View attachment 64712


I've been wanting more top end speed so I recently swapped out the original Raceface 34T chainring with a Wolf Tooth 104 BCD Drop-Stop ST 36T chainring. Slight modification to the right motor cover and removal of the lower chain guide are needed to make it fit. Now the bike is twice as torquey and gets to 28mph without hesitation. IMO 36T chainring should be standard on all e-mtb. It makes them run like a beast.

View attachment 64713
View attachment 64714


Next mod is to swap out the original 175mm Raceface crank arms with 165mm so I can pedal out of corners faster without pedal strikes.

Hi BTaWT, what you need to do to the cover? Trim it? Does the 36 give more power at lower cadences?

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

@Eddy Current

see this little piece that's sticking up? trim it.
trim it parallel to the cover (not vertical)

then sand it down or file it down so it's level with the cover

i don't feel like taking a pic of the actual tools i used but i used these

with the 36T (tall gearing), your cadence (rpm) drops when traveling at the same speed
this graph compares the original 34T chainring versus the 36T using these components:

• original maxxis front/rear tire 29x2.5
• original Shimano SLX M7000 12-speed (10,12,14,16,18,21,24,28,33,39,45,51)

with 34x10 gearing - at a cadence of 70 rpm, your speed would be 20.88 mph
with 36x10 gearing - at a cadence of 70 rpm, your speed would be 22.11 mph
but if you're trying to maintain an exact speed of 20.88 mph, you can lower your cadence with 36x10 gearing

 

[Eddy Current]

@BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails when you say twice torque is because the bigger chainring pulls the torque sensor or ... no

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

@Eddy Current i hope you understand that i'm trying to help out here. from the chart, depending on which gears you select, there is an increase of more than 2mph.

i suggest to try it out yourself. the parts aren't that expensive.

 

[nineT]

Different things happen:

• motor speed changes vs. cadence; your motor spins now 5,8% faster. If I remember well the torque vs. cadence chart you will experience more support at low cadence but you will encounter the peak torque @85 cadence with the 34t. This will now happen @80 cadence already. If you spin the pedals faster support will decrease. But due to the 36t chainring you might be in a lower gear
  
• the leverage of the chain with the 36t will clearly cause a bigger deflection of the sensor. With less push on the pedal the output of the sensor is bigger. For powerful riders this might not be desirable because it is possible that the sensor is saturated at moderate pedal input already and the natural feel is lost.

I think subjective and objective aspects mix here; in my case curiosity starts winning...

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

@nineT larger drive sprocket (chainring) rotates slower. Similarly, on a motorcycle, the rpm is reduce when you add more teeth to the front sprocket. Watch the first 6 min of this vid that explains "tall gearing" vs "short gearing". To make it easier to visualize which chainring rotates faster, put it in terms of wheel size: 27.5 vs 29er.

As for the sensor, yes, it is now jumpy and very very eager to take off with the slightest pressure on the pedal. My other e-mtb with the Shimano Steps E8000 is also jumpy and very very eager and it is this characteristic that I like and want my e-mtbs to have. I don't care about natural feel.

To overcome the jumpiness on tight technical maneuvers, I lower the power level on my Powerplay to power mode 2 or 3 (I have 8 power modes). Unlike on my Shimano e-mtb, it only has 3 power modes (eco, trail, boost) so I switch the power off. IMO the Mountain Tuning Tool (MTT) gives my Powerplay more versatility that a lot of e-mtbs are lacking.

 

[nineT]

https://www.bikes.com/sites/all/themes/bikes/images/tech-spread/hero-background.jpg?v=2

When you go from 34 to 36 chainring motor speed increases at the same cadence because motor sprocket remains
unchanged: 12t

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

@nineT ok I see what you're saying and I hope it's ok that I only partially agree with you. It is the "speed increases at the same cadence" part that I don't agree with. I'm agreement with you that the rotational speed on the motor itself is unchanged but disagree if you are saying that the cadence from the drivetrain is constant. IMO changing the motor sprocket is another way to increase the speed on the bike. Similarly it is the same principle when increasing boost pressure on a compressor (supercharger) on a car, in a sense that you can increase boost pressure either from the compressor pulley or from the crankshaft pulley. In my setup, the chainring (or crankshaft pulley - i'm referencing the chainring as the crankshaft pulley since it's located below the motor sprocket) is larger while the motor sprocket (or compressor pulley - i'm referencing the motor sprocket as the compressor pulley since it's located above the chainring) remains constant, still achieves my goal for more speed (boost) (tbh the cadence, be it increased or reduced either from the motor or from the drivetrain is just a byproduct that I don't care about. I just wanted more top end speed)

too bad we're in different countries because it would be super cool to have this discussion over some beers and blunts (weed and first 10 rounds of beers are on me).

 

[nineT]

Cheers ! I just came home from a ride and checked out the Sanborn County Park trails at alltrails.com - what a nice place!
Waiting for that 36t chainring...

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

lol i just woke up and getting ready to go for a ride.

John Nicholas Trail at Sanborn County Park is one of my fav trails. Also one of the few trails that still allows dogs:

 

[BikeTrailsAndWaggingTails]

quick update.

i managed to get the chain to "float" (but not come off from the chainring) going 32 mph riding on the street, on the smallest sprocket (10T), while pedaling as fast as I could.

I've experienced the same issue on my other e-mtb and I just removed 2 links from the chain. Since I have 3 laying around, I'm going to try one of these:

##### UPDATE ######
the low setting screw on my rear derailleur was too low and was causing my chain to "float" around the chainring.
no need to remove links from the chain or add aftermarkert chain guide.