Rockshox Monarch RT setup questions

[khorn]

Not sure if you are done with this and are sending your shock off but one last suggestion....

Put a volume reducing band in the negative side chamber. The negative chamber is there to help the shock to ‘break away’ and start moving. This is great for light riders but not so good for heavy. The band should add the midstroke support you seem to be after.

I'm not so sure that you can add any bands to the negative chamber of a Monarch RT. The RT and RL versions are kind of a discount shock compared to the RT3 and the other members of the same family. I did look over all the technical- and tuning guides and the only thing I could find was the debonair upgrade witch is basically a bigger air can.

During today's ride I had a couple of very very hard landings and still I'm only using 75% of the stroke and that is with a sag of 35%. Issue is not only that I don't have midstroke support but the fact that the shock is way way too progressive out of sag position giving me this HT feeling when riding.

Speaking with TFTuned they say the same, if you are a big heavy 110 Kg rider like me, it will always be like this with an air shock - Very hard to tune as their sweet spot is designed to riders 30 kg lighter than me.

Coil shock it is

Karsten

 

[khorn]

Xmas in September...... Eventually everything worked out perfect with TFtuned and now it is time for suspension upgrade. 160 mm Revelation to Pike conversion up front and a Push tuned Fox Van RC in the back giving me around 150 mm.

Let the fun begin ?

Karsten

 

[bekolu]

Interesting @khorn . Have fun! By the way can you give us an update how the peformance of the Revelation increases with the Charger Upgrade? I had a Lyrik on my previous bike and now the Revelation on my Levo ("naked" w/o air spring or Charger upgrade). My son is riding the bike with the Lyrik and I can´t convince him to change with the Revelation

 

[Eckythump]

I'm not so sure that you can add any bands to the negative chamber of a Monarch RT. The RT and RL versions are kind of a discount shock compared to the RT3 and the other members of the same family. I did look over all the technical- and tuning guides and the only thing I could find was the debonair upgrade witch is basically a bigger air can.

During today's ride I had a couple of very very hard landings and still I'm only using 75% of the stroke and that is with a sag of 35%. Issue is not only that I don't have midstroke support but the fact that the shock is way way too progressive out of sag position giving me this HT feeling when riding.

Speaking with TFTuned they say the same, if you are a big heavy 110 Kg rider like me, it will always be like this with an air shock - Very hard to tune as their sweet spot is designed to riders 30 kg lighter than me.

Coil shock it is

Karsten

The band where his fingers are in the photos is the negative chamber of the shock. You can put bands there to tune as well as the usual side of the central o-ring to increase the ramp up on the positive side.

I’m in the same weight range as you, maybe a little more!
Hope things work out well with the coil and it doesn’t end up too linear which is an issue for heavier riders. TF Tuned are great guys so I am sure they will get you sorted.

 

[khorn]

View attachment 5692

The band where his fingers are in the photos is the negative chamber of the shock. You can put bands there to tune as well as the usual side of the central o-ring to increase the ramp up on the positive side.

I’m in the same weight range as you, maybe a little more!
Hope things work out well with the coil and it doesn’t end up too linear which is an issue for heavier riders. TF Tuned are great guys so I am sure they will get you sorted.

Thanks for the add but unfortunately my RT shock is not the same model as you are referring too. My shock doesn’t have that feature.

Karsten

 

[Eckythump]

Cool.

 

[bekolu]

Thanks for the add but unfortunately my RT shock is not the same model as you are referring too. My shock doesn’t have that feature.

Talked to my LBS, only the Debon Air Monarch has that feature but you can upgrade the standard Levo Comp Monarch with a Debon Air can.

 

[bigborett]

Xmas in September...... Eventually everything worked out perfect with TFtuned and now it is time for suspension upgrade. 160 mm Revelation to Pike conversion up front and a Push tuned Fox Van RC in the back giving me around 150 mm.

Let the fun begin ?

View attachment 5687

Karsten

You haven't gone the 2019 air spring? It was upgraded for 2019 and fits straight in. Was a huge improvement on mine even though I stayed at 150mm.
Probably a better upgrade than the Charger2.

 

[bigborett]

Should look like this.

 

[bigborett]

RockShox DebonAir Air Spring Upgrade Kit: 160mm Fits PIKE B1+/Revelation A1+ (2018+)

 

[khorn]

According to the stickers on the fork I already have the debonair spring in there.

I’ll check when I take it apart.

Karsten

 

[bigborett]

According to the stickers on the fork I already have the debonair spring in there.

I’ll check when I take it apart.

Karsten

Yes you have. It will be the 2018 150mm spring, will look the same as the one you have in the bag. Upgraded for 2019. Yours is a 2018 Levo isn't it?
The 2019 Debonair air spring gives a much plusher ride. Bang for the buck a great upgrade for the 2018 Revelation. Once you throw the Charger 2 in you basically then have a 2019 Pike.

I'm a little lighter than you at about 95/97 but I love my forks now. Just need to sort the shock out a little. May get the Debonair chamber and add some bands to it.

Also, I am running 2 (or maybe 3) tokens in the front and still bottom regularly, you may want more with your weight. Maximum of 4 from memory.

I forgot to do it, but I would suggest getting some SKF seals for your forks also. They noticeably reduce stiction.

 

[khorn]

Yes you have. It will be the 2018 150mm spring, will look the same as the one you have in the bag. Upgraded for 2019. Yours is a 2018 Levo isn't it?
The 2019 Debonair air spring gives a much plusher ride. Bang for the buck a great upgrade for the 2018 Revelation. Once you throw the Charger 2 in you basically then have a 2019 Pike.

I'm a little lighter than you at about 95/97 but I love my forks now. Just need to sort the shock out a little. May get the Debonair chamber and add some bands to it.

Also, I am running 2 (or maybe 3) tokens in the front and still bottom regularly, you may want more with your weight. Maximum of 4 from memory.

I forgot to do it, but I would suggest getting some SKF seals for your forks also. They noticeably reduce stiction.

Thanks for the feedback and do you happen to have the Rockshox part number for that 2019 air spring in 160 mm travel?

I was told that the only way that I could get the RT less progressive was to get the big volume air can and not the debonair version. Anyway it does not matter for me now?

Btw a few pics:

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

If you mount it that way can you reach the red rebound dial!
I had to mount mine piggyback to the left

 

[bigborett]

Thanks for the feedback and do you happen to have the Rockshox part number for that 2019 air spring in 160 mm travel?

I was told that the only way that I could get the RT less progressive was to get the big volume air can and not the debonair version. Anyway it does not matter for me now?

Btw a few pics:

View attachment 5735
View attachment 5736
View attachment 5737
View attachment 5738

Karsten

The part number for the Air spring is in that link I gave you if you open it up. But here you go.
00.4019.931.000 Google it.

Pretty sure those seals you have there are the OEM ones, still made by SKF but not their low friction ones.
You want these. SKF Sealing Kit for RockShox Suspension Forks - from MY 2008 or newer

I've used them on motorbikes and quite a difference.

 

[khorn]

If you mount it that way can you reach the red rebound dial!
I had to mount mine piggyback to the left

Yes Dave

Karsten

 

[Mcharza]

View attachment 5740

Yes Dave

Karsten

Doesn't the piggypack touch your inner leg, when pedaling or riding technical trails?

 

[khorn]

Doesn't the piggypack touch your inner leg, when pedaling or riding technical trails?

I will eventually find out but by observing my previous rides, my legs don't get anywhere that area where the piggyback is. I want to save the space for my water bottle if possible and will try it out during the next few rides, if it does not work, I can always locate it the normal way again.

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

Doesn't the piggypack touch your inner leg, when pedaling or riding technical trails?

It doesnt for me but the QF is pretty wide on the levo

 

[ccrdave]

View attachment 5740

Yes Dave

Karsten

Hmm wonder why i couldnt mount it like that!
I was probably having a senior moment lol

 

[bigborett]

Have a new Debonair can kit coming for the Monarch.
It comes with seals and bands.
We will see how it goes.

Just upped the pressure a bit for some bigger hits and lost a lot of my small bump compliance. Will see if this helps. A lot cheaper than a new shock.

 

[bigborett]

Any updates? How did it all go?

 

[skiboycey]

Hello. I'm new to the forum and have been following this thread after similar problems with my 2018 Turbo Levo Expert.

To cut a long story short I looked at a lot of exploded diagrams of the Monarch RT3 and noticed in all of them that a part that was in my shock when I undid the air can was not on the standard shock. When I pulled off the air-can I noticed that under the top-out washer and o-ring at the top of the shock there was a large white foam washer that looked very much like the volume reducer from the exploded diagram of a Fox Float.

Not being shy with fiddling I had a close look at it and decided it didn't do anything other than to reduce the volume of the shock especially towards the end of the travel. I then carefully cut it out by slicing it across the diametre and bending it so it came off of the main shaft. Think of cutting a doughnut across the 'ring' on one side and then bending it so it splits around the post going through the middle. I really need to take a few photos but hopefully you get my drift.

Anyway the upshot is you remove a big bit of useless plastic/foam from the main reservoir and so get a far more linear shock especially towards the end of the travel. Out riding the difference is very marked and I now get full travel in normal riding.

Previously I ran 210 psi for my 95kg rider weight but only got about 80% of travel for about 35% sag and it felt very 'wooden'. After removing the mystery foam washer I have to run 230 psi but with 25/30% sag and get 100% travel with no noticable bottoming out. Basically it now works properly for my weight.

Annoyingly I'd already ordered a Debonair air-can as per some of the advice on this thread but perhaps that will be even better? At any rate this mod makes the shock far, far more linear for my weight range and makes if feel like there's about 30mm more travel and much plusher and it costs 30 mins to remove the shock and some careful cutting with a craft knife to achieve this. As I cut the ring carefully I can still put it back on again if I need to and it stays in place due to its own elasticity.

Why didn't Specialized do this themselves? Presumably because the shock is tuned to an 'average' rider of 70kg riding quite aggressively as it's the top-end model of the range that they think good riders will buy. I, on the other hand, am 25kg heavier and although I can ride both fast and quite well (I'm an ex-enduro/motocross rider) I don't do jumps and don't take too many risks as I'm 51 and can do without spending 3 months in hospital if I don't make the double-jump on the downhill trail. So I want plusher suspension and don't need the really heavy bottom-out protection a lighter, faster, more risk taking rider would need. I found a similar story with the Ohlins fork where I run about 20 psi less than recommended in the main chamber and 50psi less in the bottom out chamber but it now (after running in) feels super plush and doesn't bottom out when I'm riding as I've made it far more linear.

I'll post some pics if I get a minute.

Hope this is useful, regards, Mark

 

[VaseLEVO]

Hello. I'm new to the forum and have been following this thread after similar problems with my 2018 Turbo Levo Expert.

To cut a long story short I looked at a lot of exploded diagrams of the Monarch RT3 and noticed in all of them that a part that was in my shock when I undid the air can was not on the standard shock. When I pulled off the air-can I noticed that under the top-out washer and o-ring at the top of the shock there was a large white foam washer that looked very much like the volume reducer from the exploded diagram of a Fox Float.

Not being shy with fiddling I had a close look at it and decided it didn't do anything other than to reduce the volume of the shock especially towards the end of the travel. I then carefully cut it out by slicing it across the diametre and bending it so it came off of the main shaft. Think of cutting a doughnut across the 'ring' on one side and then bending it so it splits around the post going through the middle. I really need to take a few photos but hopefully you get my drift.

Anyway the upshot is you remove a big bit of useless plastic/foam from the main reservoir and so get a far more linear shock especially towards the end of the travel. Out riding the difference is very marked and I now get full travel in normal riding.

Previously I ran 210 psi for my 95kg rider weight but only got about 80% of travel for about 35% sag and it felt very 'wooden'. After removing the mystery foam washer I have to run 230 psi but with 25/30% sag and get 100% travel with no noticable bottoming out. Basically it now works properly for my weight.

Annoyingly I'd already ordered a Debonair air-can as per some of the advice on this thread but perhaps that will be even better? At any rate this mod makes the shock far, far more linear for my weight range and makes if feel like there's about 30mm more travel and much plusher and it costs 30 mins to remove the shock and some careful cutting with a craft knife to achieve this. As I cut the ring carefully I can still put it back on again if I need to and it stays in place due to its own elasticity.

Why didn't Specialized do this themselves? Presumably because the shock is tuned to an 'average' rider of 70kg riding quite aggressively as it's the top-end model of the range that they think good riders will buy. I, on the other hand, am 25kg heavier and although I can ride both fast and quite well (I'm an ex-enduro/motocross rider) I don't do jumps and don't take too many risks as I'm 51 and can do without spending 3 months in hospital if I don't make the double-jump on the downhill trail. So I want plusher suspension and don't need the really heavy bottom-out protection a lighter, faster, more risk taking rider would need. I found a similar story with the Ohlins fork where I run about 20 psi less than recommended in the main chamber and 50psi less in the bottom out chamber but it now (after running in) feels super plush and doesn't bottom out when I'm riding as I've made it far more linear.

I'll post some pics if I get a minute.

Hope this is useful, regards, Mark

Hi Mark,
can you explain also the fork for us heavier guys? I am about 92kg myself and I only get 70-80% travel used up riding around and maybe I could use another 10 -15% travel and don't mind another 5% margin of safety. That said I still don't quite understand what would happen if I say bottomed out on a ride. I don't do jumps and if I ever do it will be of the mild kind. Am 47 too so I get not wanting to take big risks. I ride for enjoyment and exercise not try and win any trophies

 

[bigborett]

Hello. I'm new to the forum and have been following this thread after similar problems with my 2018 Turbo Levo Expert.

To cut a long story short I looked at a lot of exploded diagrams of the Monarch RT3 and noticed in all of them that a part that was in my shock when I undid the air can was not on the standard shock. When I pulled off the air-can I noticed that under the top-out washer and o-ring at the top of the shock there was a large white foam washer that looked very much like the volume reducer from the exploded diagram of a Fox Float.

Not being shy with fiddling I had a close look at it and decided it didn't do anything other than to reduce the volume of the shock especially towards the end of the travel. I then carefully cut it out by slicing it across the diametre and bending it so it came off of the main shaft. Think of cutting a doughnut across the 'ring' on one side and then bending it so it splits around the post going through the middle. I really need to take a few photos but hopefully you get my drift.

Anyway the upshot is you remove a big bit of useless plastic/foam from the main reservoir and so get a far more linear shock especially towards the end of the travel. Out riding the difference is very marked and I now get full travel in normal riding.

Previously I ran 210 psi for my 95kg rider weight but only got about 80% of travel for about 35% sag and it felt very 'wooden'. After removing the mystery foam washer I have to run 230 psi but with 25/30% sag and get 100% travel with no noticable bottoming out. Basically it now works properly for my weight.

Annoyingly I'd already ordered a Debonair air-can as per some of the advice on this thread but perhaps that will be even better? At any rate this mod makes the shock far, far more linear for my weight range and makes if feel like there's about 30mm more travel and much plusher and it costs 30 mins to remove the shock and some careful cutting with a craft knife to achieve this. As I cut the ring carefully I can still put it back on again if I need to and it stays in place due to its own elasticity.

Why didn't Specialized do this themselves? Presumably because the shock is tuned to an 'average' rider of 70kg riding quite aggressively as it's the top-end model of the range that they think good riders will buy. I, on the other hand, am 25kg heavier and although I can ride both fast and quite well (I'm an ex-enduro/motocross rider) I don't do jumps and don't take too many risks as I'm 51 and can do without spending 3 months in hospital if I don't make the double-jump on the downhill trail. So I want plusher suspension and don't need the really heavy bottom-out protection a lighter, faster, more risk taking rider would need. I found a similar story with the Ohlins fork where I run about 20 psi less than recommended in the main chamber and 50psi less in the bottom out chamber but it now (after running in) feels super plush and doesn't bottom out when I'm riding as I've made it far more linear.

I'll post some pics if I get a minute.

Hope this is useful, regards, Mark

Without looking at diagrams etc. Are you sure that this is not an internal bump stop so as not to get harsh bottoming?

 

[skiboycey]

Hi Mark,
can you explain also the fork for us heavier guys? I am about 92kg myself and I only get 70-80% travel used up riding around and maybe I could use another 10 -15% travel and don't mind another 5% margin of safety. That said I still don't quite understand what would happen if I say bottomed out on a ride. I don't do jumps and if I ever do it will be of the mild kind. Am 47 too so I get not wanting to take big risks. I ride for enjoyment and exercise not try and win any trophies

Hi. With the fork I've just played around with the pressures and come up with around (I'm not with the bike so these are from memory) 90 psi for the main chamber and about 160 psi for the top-out chamber. From memory the recommendations are more like 130 and 220 for my weight but I found this to be ridiculously harsh with almost no small-bump compliance. I'm running the compression wide open as I've never once found a shock or fork where I needed anything else as this chiefly stops bottoming on landing from big jumps which I don't do and it tends to mess up the small-bump plushness. For rebound I started with the fork quite slow but have backed off to around halfway to stop it packing down over chatter bumps. I used to run a lot of rebound but have been persuaded to back off a lot and run and faster fork more recently, perhaps because the more modern forks control the damping much better compared to the old ones?

It's also important to point out that forks 'run-in' as you use them and the tolerances on the bushings settle down. Motocross and Enduro bike forks are bloody awful for about 10 to 25 hours as they run in. They have almost no small-bump compliance and 'kick' the bars around on stutter bumps (or worse you get a life-threatening tank-slapper as you accelerate - this can be really bloody nasty on a powerful road bike) as the bushes are too 'draggy' on the stanchions. Once they settle down and the tiny tolerances on the bushes open up a bit they get a lot more plush. I see no reason why mountain bike forks - especially a high-end offering like the Ohlins which will have tight tolerances and good materials - will be any different. Mine have a got a lot nicer as I've ridden the bike more. Interestingly I upped the pressures by 10psi in the main and 20 in the top-out chambers two rides ago as they were starting to feel a bit soft which also indicates that the bushes are getting more bedded in and I'm now compensating the lower initial movement friction by needing a bit more pressure in the fork.

This is a trend that may well continue as they get more slippery and, who knows, I may end up back somewhere close the manufacturers recommendation once the forks have 50 hours of Alpine abuse put through them. I've probably ridden the bike about 25 hours by now but only about 5 hours of this will have been fast downhill which really pushes the fork. In comparison a motorbike will push the fork all the time as you ride them as quickly uphill and on the flat as you do downhill unlike an e-bike which goes still quite slowly uphill so the fork is barely worked for the majority of the ride...

Cheers, Mark

 

[skiboycey]

Without looking at diagrams etc. Are you sure that this is not an internal bump stop so as not to get harsh bottoming?

Hi

I initially also thought this foam 'doughnut' was a bump-stop but it can't be once you look at the construction. Hard to explain without a cutaway diagram but it sits over and around the casting that the main shaft screws into and the kinematics of the shock are not changed by removing it. I.e. the piston cannot go any further with it taken out as it's stopped by a rubber o-ring, a large washer (more of that in a minute) and another o-ring below this. They all stop at the point where the main shaft is threaded into the upper part of the shock. The mystery 'doughnut' goes above this so doesn't affect the mechanics of how the shock works. It's also made of a very rigid type of white expanded foam that would make an awful bump-stop. I think it's what I first suggested - a volume reducer...

Coming to the o-ring/washer/o-ring assembly that serves as the bump-stop/end of travel limiter I noticed that compared to the RockShox service manual I download of a standard RT3 shock that there's a 4mm plastic spacer put into the assembly that seems, to me, to be a travel limiter for the shock. As a standard RT3 is 51mm travel and this one is stamped (197*47) on the bottom this is probably the addition that limits the shock travel and makes the shock 'proprietary' to the Levo. In fact I'd suggest this is just a standard 190/51 shock with a 4mm plastic washer put at the top of the piston to limit it to 47mm. Which - stay with me here - also suggests that one could take it out to restore the 51mm of travel and thereby turn the rear suspension into having about 4 * 2.8 = 11mm more travel so you'd have 145 at the rear ONLY after testing the suspension could handle it and nothing collided with the frame etc.

Thinking more (I can't help it, it's how I'm made!) the presence of this 4mm spacer would also explain the volume limiter that was put in. If the shock can't go it's full travel before bottoming out then Specialized probably added the volume reducer to ramp up the shock at the end of the travel and prevent bottoming. In effect it restores the minimum volume of the shock at full compression and will make the ramp-up curve steeper throughout the travel. I guess, as I suggested earlier, that this works very well for 'mr average' (75Kg, 5'10") but not so well for us older fatties (95Kg, 6'0") who ride a bit less aggressively due to age but need a hefty amount of pressure to get the sag required. With us the volume at the end of travel will be too small and we'll get a shock which we only get 80% travel on OR we have to have too much sag and whack the pedals every 30 seconds on rocks.

So I might take out the plastic washer if I can figure out how to get the shock apart without doing a major rebuild on it, which I don't have time for right now, though it's actually not particularly difficult given a couple of cups of tea and about 2 hours and a few special tools. I've rebuilt many in the past - Fox DHX 4.0 (which was supposedly unserviceable by a home mechanic), Fox Float forks, the dreaded Fox Fit 4.0 cartridge (that was a bastard), many Fox air shocks, my daughter's downhill bike's Monarch that needed lighter weight oil in it as it had way too much damping for her weight and a Stealth Reverb dropper post (another bastard). At the end of the day shocks are not much more than glorified pogo-sticks with some damping built in and once you start taking them apart they are easy to modify by changing oil weight, shim stacks, valving heights etc. If the kinematics of the suspension will take the extra 10mm of travel I'll give it a go and see...

One last thing - why did Specialized limit the travel if it can handle it? I don't know! Maybe to prevent pedal strikes or damage to the motor casing over big terrain? Perhaps with more travel the bike wallows a lot when pedalling? Or maybe the suspension arms really do hit the frame at a full-travel 146mm. Not sure but I'll have a look and report back. If the limit washer, however, is a bugger to get off and requires an entire shock rebuild to get at it it'll have to wait a while as I have work and kids to attend to. In fact that's my missus calling time on my visit to the loo, where I'm typing this whilst perched on the crapper, so I'll have to be off.

Musing about suspension is great but not if it entails an angry missus and a cold cup of tea afterwards...

Regards, Mark

 

[skiboycey]

There you go. Sorry for the crap drawing!

 

[bigborett]

Just had a look at the manuals for the RT and the RT3 and it looks like you are probably correct about the spacer etc.
Now check the travel?

 

[VaseLEVO]

Wow that's some quick education. Much appreciated by the way!!