Rise Hydro Stiffness (or lack of)

[Snowrydr01]

Has anyone else noticed how floppy the back of this bike is? After about a month I am starting to get use to this bike and I am constantly stopping to check my tire isnt flat becuase it feels like the back end is all over the place. With the motor off (so only human torque) the back end feels like it oscilates side to side from even shifting. For refference, my primary wheel set are SC30 carbons and ebike casing Kenda Hellcat front and rear. My Ripmo AF with factory aluminum wheels and soft exo+ casings feel rock solid by comparison.

 

[cosas_genericas]

I own a Ripmo AF and a Ripmo. In my experience the Ripmo AF is super flexy in the rear. If the Rise Hydro is flexier than that, I'd be concerned.

 

[Snowrydr01]

I own a Ripmo AF and a Ripmo. In my experience the Ripmo AF is super flexy in the rear. If the Rise Hydro is flexier than that, I'd be concerned.

It wasn't so evident until I rode my AF this weekend and it was rock solid by comparison

 

[Murphius]

I don’t notice it while riding but notice a lot of flex while pushing on the rear wheel from the side while stationary. Initially I thought the rear axle was loose.

 

[cosas_genericas]

Have you tried to swap the wheels from the ripmo af to the rise? Also the lateral wheel movement on my Rise is larger than on my ripmo v1 and sentinel, but these are inherently burlier bikes. Plus who knows maybe the compliance helps the rise quality to some extent while descending.

 

[Richridesmtb]

I have a carbon Rise and it is flexy. Even the front triangle gets a fair amount of flex. It has much more flex than the Rallon. I'd say it is part of the design to make it light and comfortable. Even the Rallon has a lot more rear flex than my old giant trance with carbon rims. I know the feeling of checking tires to see if they're slack.

 

[Snowrydr01]

Thanks for the feedback. At least i know I'm not going crazzy. I will just live with it. I am pulling the rear apart since I have a creak after 100 miles but I guess i have to accept that this is a trail bike that I am upgrading and riding beyond its original intentions.

 

[MikeL_mtb]

Double check the pivots are tight, I took the lock bolt out of my lower pivot on my M and it took like a bit of a turn, I have to go look up the torque spec and go back and set it "correctly" but based on what other pivots were like I'm sure it was a tad loose. Overall it does seem like a common complaint, the loam wolf review mentioned it, but thought it could be due to the wheels on theirs (RF turbine R AL, which is what I'm using as well).

 

[cosas_genericas]

I second checking pivots, you might as well. They were loose and not set up with recommended grease or loctite on my m20.

 

[Snowrydr01]

If I hit the chainstay from the side with my hand the whole bike kind of vibrates. Checked pivots and everything is tight, just a floppy bike. I didn't see the bike before I bought it and the first time I took the rear wheel off and saw the drop outs I thought it was designed to save weight not to be stiff. It's just something to learn to live with, every bike has quirks.

 

[Mteam]

check to see if there is any play in any of the suspension bearings ( I dont mean check the torque of the bolts, but check for actual play in the bearings) , any play in the bearings can cause the feeling you describe.

My wild FS had a faulty bearing from brand new, which meant the rear end felt flexy under power. I replaced the faulty bearing and the flex went away.

if you hold the bike by the seat tube in one hand and use the other hand to hold the top on the rear wheel and try to rapidly wobble the back wheel from side to side, If there is a faulty bearing you will be able to hear it knocking , and feel a bit of play. then its just a case of going round where each bearing is and putting a finger on both parts that the bearing allows movement between in order to work out exactly which bearing is faulty. In my case it was one of the bearings that allows movement between one of the seat stays and the suspension rocker link.

 

[urastus]

Just in case - check the chain stays where they join near the bottom bracket. Look for cracks.

Some here with wild fs have found cracks in that area, probably due to the invisible welds

 

[Gardcol]

I’ve had my M10 for 14 months now and done 3,500km and 150,000m of climbing. I have had nothing but hassle with a loose rear end. The initial feeling was like the axle wasn’t tightened up properly. I have changed main pivot bearings 3 times and all bearings twice. One definite issue I’ve had when it’s been really bad is the main pivot bolt backing out and getting loose. I have now thread locked it in place and thread locked the small M4 bolt that holds it in place as well. So far this has helped a lot. When you hold the seat tube and wiggle the top of the wheel there is flex which even transmits to the lower shock mount, you can see it move a tiny amount . I have felt a couple of brand new Rise and they seem similar so I think it’s just a very flexible compliant rear. It doesn’t seem to affect performance but it’s off putting as my Canyon Spectral is rock solid.

 

[Snowrydr01]

I have been looking at it and shacking it more and think it's just an unfortunate side effect of the motor. There really isn't much material in the frame where the chainstay meets the seat tube meets the downtube. Just the little but oc C shape that bolts to the motor case and that's just not enough. I'm currently of arshmellow soft kenda emc casing tires but will feel it more with a stiff michelin 4ply

 

[thewrx]

we are all wondering if you remembered to air up your tires.....

 

[Snowrydr01]

we are all wondering if you remembered to air up your tires.....

Haha yup. 20/24 same wheels and tires as previous bike. 2 more psi in the back after pink flats at 22psi rear.

 

[volts]

Yeah it's a floppy bike. Feels fine when riding though, but like you I have stopped a few times on the trail to see if anything was loose. Nope, just floppy.

 

[urastus]

Yeah it's a floppy bike. Feels fine when riding though, but like you I have stopped a few times on the trail to see if anything was loose. Nope, just floppy.

Gee, it would have me concerned with metal fatigue. How much flopping about can aluminium take?

It's a pity that in the current climate many of us simply don't get the chance to demo ride any more. We're basically dependent on youtube reviews, which are mostly based on a ride or two, or wait till a bike model has been out for a while and see what pops up on forums like these here.

 

[Snowrydr01]

Yeah it's a floppy bike. Feels fine when riding though, but like you I have stopped a few times on the trail to see if anything was loose. Nope, just floppy.

The part that kills me is when shifting up, it's like the whole bike wiggles.

 

[SillyPosition]

Is it the same with both alloy and carbon?
I have an order for the alloy and really worried from these kind of things.

 

[Gardcol]

Is it the same with both alloy and carbon?
I have an order for the alloy and really worried from these kind of things.

I’ve got a carbon M10 and it’s the same.

 

[Mteam]

Are you guys sure there isnt something wrong with your bikes ? it doesnt sound right that the bike flexes like you describe.

I dont have a rise, but have ridden a mates M20, and it wasnt flexy. I have a wild FS that did have some flex (from brand new) which was caused by a faulty bearing, once the bearing was replaced the flex was gone.

 

[urastus]

I've been wondering if it could be the wheels?

 

[Gardcol]

I've been wondering if it could be the wheels?

Hahahah....don't get me started on the wheels! My RF Turbine R developed micro cracks round the nipples so got sent to Silverfish for new rim and wheel build. After much arguing between SF and RF about spoke lengths, the wheel came back. Ever since spokes have been coming loose all over. The straight pull design is a nightmare for tensioning. My wheel is back at SF and I bit the bullet and got my LBS to build a DT Swiss EX511 with Hope Pro 4 hub. No issues with it so far and bike feels better. I think the flex is just inherent. If you hold the seat tube at the collar and wiggle the top of the tyre you see the flex through all the components. Obviously the 29" wheel gives you a lot of leverage. If I wiggle from inside the wheel it is much less noticeable so if it was a 27.5" wheel I don't think it would appear so bad. From my experience and conclusion, if the wheel actually feels loose, it will be the main pivot bearing bolt has come loose or worn bearings. If it feels flexy, its just the way it is and live with it. I can't say I notice it and my bike has been thrashed on proper enduro trails up here in Scotland from day 1. I now know the difference between loose and flexy. As I stated before, check the small M5 that holds the main pivot in place via an expander cone (look at blue paper) is not loose. When my back end got really loose twice, the main pivot had unscrewed itself and although the M5 was in place it was loose and it made no difference. My advice is thread lock both the main pivot axle and the M5 expander bolt.

 

[b33k34]

After much arguing between SF and RF about spoke lengths, the wheel came back.

Do you know that the suggestions were? I've been meaning to pick up a few spares. I've got them noted down as
Sapim D-Light spokes 303mm, double butted 2.0/1.5/2.0 (same spokes throughout both wheels).

No trouble with our two sets after a year but straight pull spokes are a real pain for re-truing (had some DT hub / EX511 wheels built with standard j bend for my new regular bike)

 

[Snowrydr01]

Are you guys sure there isnt something wrong with your bikes ? it doesnt sound right that the bike flexes like you describe.

I dont have a rise, but have ridden a mates M20, and it wasnt flexy. I have a wild FS that did have some flex (from brand new) which was caused by a faulty bearing, once the bearing was replaced the flex was gone.

Definitely the bike. There is no play at any of the pivots, just a flexy frame and rear links.

 

[Gardcol]

Do you know that the suggestions were? I've been meaning to pick up a few spares. I've got them noted down as
Sapim D-Light spokes 303mm, double butted 2.0/1.5/2.0 (same spokes throughout both wheels).

No trouble with our two sets after a year but straight pull spokes are a real pain for re-truing (had some DT hub / EX511 wheels built with standard j bend for my new regular bike)

I had zero issues with the wheels from new but needed a new rim and after re-build Silverfish not happy with the build and apparently quite a few e-mail exchanges with RF about spoke lengths
Silverfish though that drive side spokes were too long (303mm) and wheel not tensioned correctly as a consequence of spokes butting out on nipples
Silverfish wheel builder (25yrs experience) still not happy with wheel but told by RF it was good to send back.
Had one mellow ride and when washing bike noticed a spoke missing, very weird as did not hear anything so my LBS though it was maybe missing from the rebuild so Silverfish sent me a new spoke and LBS fitted
Went for a ride and heard a spoke rattle after 30mins riding, stopped to check and 1 spoke completely undone and 2 others very, very loose
Took bike to dealer and luckily the local expert wheel builder was at the shop. This guy builds wheels for all the LBS in my area.
He examined it and agreed that drive side spokes too long at 303mm and butting out on nipples and should be about 300mm
Contacted Silverfish who did not have any 300mm spokes so have ordered DT Swiss 2.0/1.8 x 300mm online and LBS rebuilt my wheel and it was OK for 5-6 rides then shed a spoke.
Spoke to RF in USA and they are adamant same as RF Europe that all spokes should be same length and maybe so but because straight pull incredibly hard to get tension correct i.e. they cam spin when making up and also spin loose when riding even with threadlock.
I run Cushcore and every time a spoke came out meant tyre and Cuschore plus rim tape off, a real hassle so got a new DT Swiss built and its been perfect.

 

[Pezzar]

Must admit I was very close to getting a hydro Rise, went with a Marin in the end. Not sure I'd enjoy a 'floppy' bike? I know it doesn't do any harm (we hope) but all the same.

 

[Snowrydr01]

The rise occupies a weird space that doesn't have too much other competition. I'm always weary when a bike touts how light it is be uase that takes compromise. Levo sl geo didn't work for me and trek rail and marin were on my short list but I didn't want full fat weight. I can live with a little shimy

 

[Murphius]

I do not notice the flex while riding but I may be I’m an outlier in that regard.
I think the lack of seatstay bridge and use of clevis mount instead of a more robust rocker link are the reasons we feel flex. I can barely get it all aligned for reassembly after taking the linkages apart to lubricate bearings.
It is definitely not the real wheel itself, I’ve run mine with three wheel sets including tr37 and we are one union hoops.
That said, I’m still a big fan of the bike and don’t see another with the same benefits at this price range.