Rise H30... Awful rattle

[theremotejuggernaut]

Edited the post title. It was previously range extender rattle but I've rules that out.

Anyway, H30...

The last couple of rides I've done, I've fitted a range extender. I've also noticed a nasty rattle occasionally when hitting high frequency small bumps.

I've been over all the frame bearings and checked the rear shock mounts. Nothing seems to have any play so I'm wondering whether it could be the extender ratting around? It doesn't happen all the time and only occurs in really rough ground which I can replicate at home.

Any extender users have a similar noise?

I'm riding tomorrow and will leave the extender behind. I guess if the noise is still there then I've got a problem somewhere!

 

[Tonybro]

Not noticed when using mine but where I generally ride is rough, rocky anyway so bikes (any) tend to rattle!

Check the cage it's in and make sure it hasn't come loose and make sure it is slotted in fully...

You are using the rubber strap to 'close' the cage?

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Yeah, it's all nice and tight and the o ring is in place. I'm not convinced that it is the battery to be honest but I can't find anything else loose anywhere.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Okay, status update...

Ride today without the extender and it still rattles like a bag of spanners.

It's worse while pedalling and even worse peddling while seated over rough ground. I've double checked most of the bearings in the rear end but rancour of time. Still need to check the upper pivot bearings and the bastard difficult to access main/lower pivot. Nothing seems loose though giving it all a once over with a rubber mallet.

I pulled the shock to check the mounting bushes and they seem to be ok. I could just about push the hardware out by hand but both ends were tight. There's a little play between the hardware and the mounting bolts but obviously this goes away once the shock is fitted and bolts torqued.

I can't replicate the noise in smooth ground at any speed. There's no banging or clocking when hitting a single object like a root or a kerb. It's literally high frequency impacts that seem to cause it.

Next on the list is to pull the cassette off and check the freehub bearings. The rear wheel bearings feel ok but I'll check the freehub.

Other than the main pivot bearings and the freehub, I'm out of ideas. Could it be something internal? It definitely sounds like something at the rear end but we all know that rattles and creaks can sound like they're coming from weird places.

It literally sounds like something is seriously loose. Imagine riding with the rear axle loose and that's what it's like. Bad e ough that I had to cut my ride short today because it sounds like I'm damaging something!

 

[Stihldog]

A loose headset/steering tube? Happened to me once. Sounded and felt weird.

Internal cables or wires? Once I placed foam or cushioning in those suspected locations the rattle disappeared.

The rattle sounds would only occur over high-frequency bumps.

Then you’ll have that “oh-sh*t” moment and things will be better.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Headset was replaced recently due to the crappy plastic spacer on the standard headset moving around. Definitely not the culprit this time though.

I've sleeved the cables running through the downtube as best I could manage when I first got the bike. It's a far worse much louder noise than the annoying tappy tappy sound of a rattly cable. I do need to get in there and do it properly at some point though.

This noise is definitely something bigger than a cable. I'll hopefully have some time tomorrow to take it all apart (again).

Might order some new shock bushes and hardware just in case. I'll need them at some point anyway.

 

[Rod B.]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Headset was replaced recently due to the crappy plastic spacer on the standard headset moving around. Definitely not the culprit this time though.

I've sleeved the cables running through the downtube as best I could manage when I first got the bike. It's a far worse much louder noise than the annoying tappy tappy sound of a rattly cable. I do need to get in there and do it properly at some point though.

This noise is definitely something bigger than a cable. I'll hopefully have some time tomorrow to take it all apart (again).

Might order some new shock bushes and hardware just in case. I'll need them at some point anyway.

If the noise is only occurring only while pedaling, it will likely be a freehub bearing. The noise of a freehub bearing going bad is horrible, i.e. a knocking and grinding sound as you pedal along. The rear hub bearings going bad will cause a low creaking noise very similar to a bottom bracket going bad on a crankset. I had the same issue as you, the noise eventually got so loud, I was able to track it back to the bearings in the freehub.

Pay particular attention to the drive side bearings on the rear hub, the torque from the motor seems to be particularly hard on the drive side and less so the non-drive side. The hub bearings are fairly easy to check. Put your bike up on a stand and spin the rear wheel. Place your fingertips on the chain stay as the wheel spins. You should feel absolute smoothness. No vibration should transmit through to your finger tips. If you feel any vibration or roughness, you have a rear hub bearing going out. Checking the free hub bearings requires removal of the cassette and freehub from the rear hub. Stick your finger into each freehub bearing and place it under tension. Rotate the bearing. If you feel any rough or notchy feeling, you have a freehub bearing going out.

Good luck,
Rod

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

Status update as of today...

Rear wheel bearings are all good. No play in the hub or freehub. End caps are okay, axle isn't broken.

I still can't find any play in the suspension linkage. None of the bearings have any play and I can't feel any play or hear any knocking whilst being less than gentle with it. I've removed the shock and yoke, clamped the rear axle in the dropouts and given it some serious wiggling and precision tapping with a rubber mallet and nothing.

Completely stripped the linkage again and checked each bearing individually and again, nothing.

I've noticed some play in the cranks/ spindle that feels like bad bottom bracket bearings. I know that an amount of lateral play is acceptable (according to shimano) and the effect of that is that the cranks and spindle can move left and right inline with the spindle. This is different, literally like bad BB bearings. Grabbing the pedals, pushing at 12 o'clock, pulling at 6 o'clock shows a small amount of movement that I don't think should be there. Is visible movement too not just a feeling.

While I don't think this should occur, I'm not convinced it's the cause of the noise.

The lockring for the cassette was tight and I'm running out of ideas.

I've ordered some new bushing for the rear shock just in case. If they don't cure it, I think I'll have to admit defeat and it's going back to the shop.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Oh, also checked the motor mounting bolts, the plastic cover for the motor, chainstay protector, saddle clamps, headset, stem bolts. Have the rear wheel a clean and checked the hub body and spoke tensions (by hand). Gave the frame a look over and can't see any cracks.

 

[PureFM]

Check out the saddle and dropper. Had one that rattled but I replaced both at same time so not sure whether it was the saddle or seatpost/dropper

 

[Rod B.]

Oh, also checked the motor mounting bolts, the plastic cover for the motor, chainstay protector, saddle clamps, headset, stem bolts. Have the rear wheel a clean and checked the hub body and spoke tensions (by hand). Gave the frame a look over and can't see any cracks.

You’re going to hate me for this suggestion. You’ve checked everything. About the only thing left is to drop the motor and check the battery clamp bolts. It’s possible the battery has loosened up a bit and is rattling about???

While you’re at it, give the cloth loom on the wiring harness a good look. Mine developed several holes in the loom from things rubbing against the harness. Use friction tape to wrap and cover the areas where rub through is occurring.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

You’re going to hate me for this suggestion. You’ve checked everything. About the only thing left is to drop the motor and check the battery clamp bolts. It’s possible the battery has loosened up a bit and is rattling about???

While you’re at it, give the cloth loom on the wiring harness a good look. Mine developed several holes in the loom from things rubbing against the harness. Use friction tape to wrap and cover the areas where rub through is occurring.

I dont hate you any more than I hate myself for having the same thought

I'll fit the new shock bushes when they arrive and see if I can find somewhere locally to recreate the noise. Don't have much in the way of trails so will need to find a gravel track or something.

If the noise is still there then yeah, the motors coming out!

 

[Tubby G]

I dont hate you any more than I hate myself for having the same thought

I'll fit the new shock bushes when they arrive and see if I can find somewhere locally to recreate the noise. Don't have much in the way of trails so will need to find a gravel track or something.

If the noise is still there then yeah, the motors coming out!

Probably irrelevant but worth mentioning

I had an annoying little rattle recently on my Rise. I found it quite quickly, it was simply the chain guide had become loose. I was surprised at how such a small plastic part could create an annoyingly loud rattle that sounded far worse than what it was. Worth checking!

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Probably irrelevant but worth mentioning

I had an annoying little rattle recently on my Rise. I found it quite quickly, it was simply the chain guide had become loose. I was surprised at how such a small plastic part could create an annoyingly loud rattle that sounded far worse than what it was. Worth checking!

Cheers for the suggestion!

I've checked the chainstay protector along with anything and everything bolted to the frame

This is more of a clonking thudding noise that a rattle. I swear I'm hearing in my sleep!

 

[Rod B.]

Cheers for the suggestion!

I've checked the chainstay protector along with anything and everything bolted to the frame

This is more of a clonking thudding noise that a rattle. I swear I'm hearing in my sleep!

Could be a loose nut but behind the handlebar?

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Could be a loose nut but behind the handlebar?

That particular nut is damaged and beyond saving

 

[ebsocalmtb]

This is just shimano ep8 rattle imo.

you said the following:
"It's worse while pedalling and even worse peddling while seated over rough ground."
and
"I can't replicate the noise in smooth ground at any speed. There's no banging or clocking when hitting a single object like a root or a kerb. It's literally high frequency impacts that seem to cause it."

This is textbook triggers for ep8 rattle. My rise sounds like a bucket of bolts in my local terrain. And for what it's worth, side to side (lateral) play is normal for EP8's and the lateral play you'd need to qualify for a warranty is pretty nuts... IIRC it's like 12mm.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Thanks.

It's definitely not the motor though. I can hear the normal motor rattle at the same time as this other noise. It's definitely a banging/ knocking kinda rattle with a much deeper sound than the motor rattle.

Lateral play I'm fine with but there's a detectable amount of axial play in the spindle which definitely shouldn't be there. I'm not convinced that it's the cause of the noise though.

Anyway, I pulled the motor and the battery out this afternoon. Can't see anything untoward in there. Everything is tight. Nothing broken or loose.

I did use it as an excuse to change the lower pivot bearings, run a new cable for the dropper, service the dropper and sleeve all hoses/ cables in the downtube so at least once I've got to the bottom of it, the bike will be a bit quieter

New shock bushes turned up too so I'll fit those when I've reassembled everything and take it out for a spin.

 

[Binhill1]

Can't help you but reminds me I once had a squeak. Charlie Ralph who I knew
( Alves Framesets custom builder )got me to cycle and he crouched down and run alongside me found it right away.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Can't help you but reminds me I once had a squeak. Charlie Ralph who I knew
( Alves Framesets custom builder )got me to cycle and he crouched down and run alongside me found it right away.

Are you volunteering?

 

[Binhill1]

Are you volunteering?

I'm too old to crouch down

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

I spent some more time poking around today. The shock buses felt fine but the new ones were definitely a tighter fit so I'm wondering whether it was them all along. Guess I'll find out tomorrow!

 

[Giff]

This is like one of those Sunday night TV dramas and you have to wait all week to find out what happens next..... All ears !

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

I know right! Keeping you all on the edge of your seats, eager for the next nail biting installment

 

[Giff]

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Edited the post title. It was previously range extender rattle but I've rules that out.

Anyway, H30...

The last couple of rides I've done, I've fitted a range extender. I've also noticed a nasty rattle occasionally when hitting high frequency small bumps.

I've been over all the frame bearings and checked the rear shock mounts. Nothing seems to have any play so I'm wondering whether it could be the extender ratting around? It doesn't happen all the time and only occurs in really rough ground which I can replicate at home.

Any extender users have a similar noise?

I'm riding tomorrow and will leave the extender behind. I guess if the noise is still there then I've got a problem somewhere!

You’re aware the ep8 has a rattle built in? They all do it. Noticeable free wheeling at speed over small bumps will bring it out, adding extra mass of the extender….. would that make it more pronounced perhaps ?

If you are aware please ignore this

No experience with the extender although I do have an h30 rise

 

[bazxa]

Have you checked that the cassette lock ring is tight?

 

[Binhill1]

You must have checked every nut and bolt by now. Someone telling me last week there's not much more maintenance on an Ebike than an ordinary bike . Its a bit like driving the car with no radio on hou start to worry about every little noise.I always check my hearing aids first .