Remove chain to clean?

[phutureproof]

Now that I have dropped several months salary on an ebike, I intend to look after it more than I have with previous bikes.

With a normal bike, it's reasonably easy with a chain cleaning tool and some degreaser, but to be honest, I've never had perfect results with this. It still seems dirty after a few goes.

With an emtb it isn't quite as easy as you can't spin the pedals in the same way.

I've seen a video where a chap uses a paintbrush to apply degreaser on the chain and tried that a couple of times. Not great really.

I'm wondering about removing the chain and dunking it in degreaser.

Bad idea? Good idea? What do you do?

 

[Tim1023]

There's various tools you can buy to be able to turn your pedals backwards, but I just use an allen key of the correct size with a bit of tape wrapped around it to protect the crank arm. Just stick that into the top of a bolt in the chain ring spider.

 

[phutureproof]

Yes, I could do that. But Even with a chain cleaning tool (one of those that clamps on) I never achieve a perfectly clean chain. I guess a 'perfectly clean chain' mightn't be possible?

 

[Geedog]

Hello, yes you should take the chain off every now n again and clean it in petrol, if you ride in sandy or gritty areas this will definitely need to be done regularly imo.
Also, i use revolubes on my chain, it is expensive and a bit of a faff cleaning your new chain very thoroughly, but it lasts me about 120 to 150 miles an application, and the chain and cassette stay relatively clean, and I've had a lot lot less chain wear than with standard lubes. I also run a chain for 5 or 6 hundred miles then put a new one on, then when 5 or 6 hundred miles I do it again, then after that I use the 1st one for same amount then the 2nd then 3rd, this will help the cassette last a lot longer, and you should always carry a spare one of your spare chains in your camelbak, as ebikes can destroy chains.
I've just this afternoon changed chains over on my ebike, no skipping or jumping at all.

 

[phutureproof]

I also run a chain for 5 or 6 hundred miles then put a new one on, then when 5 or 6 hundred miles I do it again, then after that I use the 1st one for same amount then the 2nd then 3rd, this will help the cassette last a lot longer, and you should always carry a spare one of your spare chains in your camelbak, as ebikes can destroy chains.

I thought best practice was that cassettes should be changed at the same time as chains.

 

[Geedog]

Not every 5 hundred miles, that would be costly, but if you use just 1 chain and cassette until they are both knackered that's fine, if you change the chain when the original chain has had too much wear on the cassette,the new chain won't mesh with the old cassette and will skip and jump all over the worn/old cassette.
1 chain and cassette will probably last about 1000 miles ish if you are lucky imo, that's off road miles in all conditions. I changed my chain and cassette at about 1980 miles, il keep it for a spare in the future as it has plenty of life left, imo. I'm on about 2400 miles now and done chain today, it works a treat.

 

[RickBullotta]

Not worth the hassle in my opinion. I've never taken a chain off to clean in 30+ years of mountain biking, and I haven't broken a chain or had a frozen link in many, many years. I try to wash the grit and mud off immediately after I get home, or at worst the next day. I let the chain dry, then clean it with a brush and rag and lube it, then wipe it again. Hasn't failed me yet and I ride in some horrible conditions at times.

 

[Tubby G]

Now that I have dropped several months salary on an ebike, I intend to look after it more than I have with previous bikes.

With a normal bike, it's reasonably easy with a chain cleaning tool and some degreaser, but to be honest, I've never had perfect results with this. It still seems dirty after a few goes.

With an emtb it isn't quite as easy as you can't spin the pedals in the same way.

I've seen a video where a chap uses a paintbrush to apply degreaser on the chain and tried that a couple of times. Not great really.

I'm wondering about removing the chain and dunking it in degreaser.

Bad idea? Good idea? What do you do?

Get yourself a bike stand that lifts the rear wheel off the ground, only around £20-30 online. Chain & cassette cleaning becomes a simple quick task. I just use a little squirt of WD40 degreaser after washing the bike, leave for a few minutes, wipe with a rag to dry before lubing. Chain looks spanky shiny at all times

I also use those Muc-Off rotor covers, they’re well worth the money, even if they seem expensive for what they are (again around £20 a pair)

 

[RustyIron]

I'm wondering about removing the chain and dunking it in degreaser.

Bad idea? Good idea? What do you do?

I suspect that the best practice is dependent upon riding conditions. My conditions are usually dry with dust, with the occasional stream crossing or mud puddle. Only rarely is there a lot of mud or riding in the rain.

I use the waxy-style lubricants, and I NEVER degrease a chain. I wipe it off and then apply more lube. It forms a small wax barrier that seals out dust. If found that degreasers and oil-type lubes allow super-fine particles to migrate between the plates and pins, accelerating wear. I can hear it and feel it.

 

[Slapbassmunky]

I'll probably get loads of flack for this, but here's my method.

Take one slow cooker/crock pot. Fill with candle wax and a really really good glug of EP90. Use quick link to remove chain, dump in hot wax mix, leave for 10 minutes, remove and wipe down loosely while hot. Refit chain.

Repeat when it needs it.

No washing, no dousing the freehub bearings or motor seals in degreaser, and my chains last ages.

 

[Akelu]

If you really want that clean chain drivetrain feel perpetually, wax your chain.

How to wax a chain: an endless FAQ

So often, what’s old becomes new again. Dropper seat posts, road bikes designed for gravel roads, suspended stems, and tan wall tyres - yep, all old

cyclingtips.com

 

[steve_sordy]

......................

I also use those Muc-Off rotor covers, they’re well worth the money, even if they seem expensive for what they are (again around £20 a pair)

I use sandwich bags. Very cheap indeed, and they last for ages. They can even be free if they have already been used for sandwiches.

 

[phutureproof]

I use sandwich bags. Very cheap indeed, and they last for ages. They can even be free if they have already been used for sandwiches.

Now that's a good idea. I was contemplating asking my wife to sew something for me, but a sandwich bag will suffice for now.

 

[Hamina]

If you really want that clean chain drivetrain feel perpetually, wax your chain.

How to wax a chain: an endless FAQ

So often, what’s old becomes new again. Dropper seat posts, road bikes designed for gravel roads, suspended stems, and tan wall tyres - yep, all old

cyclingtips.com

I guess you still have to clean the chain somehow?

 

[Tubby G]

I use sandwich bags. Very cheap indeed, and they last for ages. They can even be free if they have already been used for sandwiches.

don’t you run the risk of getting cheese n pickle or tuna mayo residue all over your rotor?

 

[steve_sordy]

Now that's a good idea. I was contemplating asking my wife to sew something for me, but a sandwich bag will suffice for now.

Two open sandwich bags, one pair of scissors. Stand in front of a disc and cut down one side of the bag from the top towards the centre of the bag. Thread on to the disc, adjust cut as required, close bag. I find that the bag is best closing from the right for the rear disc, from the left for the front disc.

If the uncut side of the bag is facing the direction of travel, they stay one very well (never lost one). But if the cut side is facing the travel direction, they just do not stay on. Therefore two bikes on a rack is a problem, because one will have the bags facing the wrong way. One bike is no problem, just have the bars to the right as you look at the rear of the car.

 

[steve_sordy]

don’t you run the risk of getting cheese n pickle or tuna mayo residue all over your rotor?

Lick the bags clean, or you could turn them inside out. It's worth a bit of effort for FREE STUFF!

 

[B1rdie]

I do remove the chain if I have enough time to do it. Its the way to go if you want a good job done with no need to clean the calipers and rotors.
Its also good to check how easyly or not the quick link actually splits and makes it possible to remove the grit off the pulleys.
If I’m in a rush, then I use a rag.

 

[Konanige]

Ride- hose-lube -repeat. Too much cleaning makes Jack have a lot less fun!!!

 

[Coolcmsc]

Two open sandwich bags….
If the uncut side of the bag is facing the direction of travel, they stay one very well (never lost one).

That’s amazing! Most others take them off before riding — who’d of thought…?
I take my chain off and into turps then meths once in a while and flush through with the hose at the jockey wheels after every ride whilst whizzing the wheel round with the bike on a cheap stand — lube when dry. And I do find the cassette will last for two to three chains (change at 0.5%). I might get 600 or 700km per chain, sometimes only 500 if I’m thrashing around in mid winter. Never had a broken chain or whatever since adopting this (did before occasionally). But….
Some manage amazing distances including on emtbs without making much effort, even in poor conditions like round my way (Peak grit etc). I have no insight into how that’s done and I’ve tried the old crock pot.

 

[Akelu]

I guess you still have to clean the chain somehow?

Honestly, for the most part, no. I've seen pictures of people's drivetrains looking like you could eat off it without having been cleaned for 2 months. Cleaning is simply taking it off the bike, pouring boiling water over the chain in a sieve, then dunking it in the slow cooker with wax and hanging it to dry. It's much quicker and easier then trying to degrease your drivetrain much more often.

The main problem is they dont work too well in heavy rain. If you ride in heavy rain for an extended period then when you get home, just dry the chain off and then dunk in the hot wax and let dry again, and your chain is fully refreshed back to New (as the water can bring dirt into it and clear away some of the wax)

Itall sounds a bit laborious but if you mainly ride when it's not raining, it takes much less time overall than degreasing, your drivetrain will last much longer, be much quieter and look much better, and have less friction.. and and and.. lol

 

[urastus]

If you really want that clean chain drivetrain feel perpetually, wax your chain.

How to wax a chain: an endless FAQ

So often, what’s old becomes new again. Dropper seat posts, road bikes designed for gravel roads, suspended stems, and tan wall tyres - yep, all old

cyclingtips.com

I wax my chain too. Re cleaning, I just hold it in a wire basket and pour hot water (just boiled from the jug) over it. One side, then the other, then the same for the rollers.

They also get clean when you soak them in the wax - I try to keep the wax reasonably clean though. I've also added ptfe powder in my mix - I don't know if this is an improvement.

Wax is awesome but it seems to get washed off very quickly - if I lived in a wet area (the UK ) I think I'd have to use something else, like flippers and a snorkel and leave the bike in a nice warm dry garage

 

[Coolcmsc]

I wax my chain too. Re cleaning, I just hold it in a wire basket and pour hot water (just boiled from the jug) over it. One side, then the other, then the same for the rollers.

They also get clean when you soak them in the wax - I try to keep the wax reasonably clean though. I've also added ptfe powder in my mix - I don't know if this is an improvement.

Wax is awesome but it seems to get washed off very quickly - if I lived in a wet area (the UK ) I think I'd have to use something else, like flippers and a snorkel and leave the bike in a nice warm dry garage

Agreed.
The Cycling Tips article is based on ZeroFrictionCycling’s research. It’s the only published independent assessment of all the major chain lubes and wax as they affect durability and consumption of energy through friction of the drivetrain. The key feature of the work is that the full methodology and the full results can be found on his website - so it could all be replicated. Nobody else does this. Importantly, this Ausie takes on manufacturers who ‘say’ their product is brilliant but won’t explain how they measured that. He also does a lot of testing for manufacturers, but won’t co-operate with them if they don’t share his principled approach to assessing their product. A bold fellow indeed — I admire him. He sells a lot of perfectly prepped chains to pro racers (mainly roadies, but other disciplines too). Well worth a look, but he’s a bit like me in that he’s not shy of using a lot of words to avoid ambiguity — so set aside some time ?

 

[Coolcmsc]

Wax is awesome but it seems to get washed off very quickly - if I lived in a wet area (the UK ) I think I'd have to use something else, like flippers and a snorkel and leave the bike in a nice warm dry garage

Exactly. I’m in the U.K. and I found it hard to commit to taking the chain off after every muddy ride to sloosh through boiling water, wait for the crock pot to heat up and re-wax. There’s also the decision whether or not to change the quick link every few openings/closings.
My next effort involves using two chains in rotation (three if I can motivate myself). Every time I take one off to re-prep, I’ll put the other prepped one on. I’ll clean and wax the one that comes off at a convenient time.
This does two things apparently.
1. It means you don’t have to wait to ride again until you’ve got round to washing/rewaxing the chain (and avoids the powerful temptation to just drip on a bit of lube which must be resisted — read why on ZFC site) and…
2. It means the cassette wears less quickly because the wear on all 2/3 chains are always matched to the wear on the cassette (it’s a maths thing). And of course it also avoids eventually getting a slipping/broken chain with the newer chain.
In a dryer climate, the 2 or 3 chains are rotated ideally no more than every 300 -> 400km (or monthly if that works for the rider who rides less far). But, whatever rotation is used, it’s important with the wax method not to wait too long between a boiling water sloosh plus quick re-wax.
Keen roadies who seem to live for every re-gained watt ? use the wax method for money saving as much as for a few watts — especially if there’s no money left after the latest Lycra purchase — It’s apparently quite a lot more economic for roadies on drive train costs over a 2 to 3 yr period. ZFC is honest that the cost savings are less for MTB in places like the U.K. ?
And those ‘waxed-chain’ watts saved add up. ZFC alleges that over a full day road cycling, the energy saved can convert into enough increased speed to arrive 30mins earlier at the destination. Hard to believe, but they give the data.
These savings are obviously irrelevant in practice on most MTB’s (unless a race run looking for tenths) and especially emtb’s.
The maths, the data and the actual annualised costs for each type of lube, wax and chain (10/11/12spd) are on the website.
So go and look up your lube there if you want to stick with that. The cost calculations are from actual experiments using Australian cassette and chain prices and replicate dry days, wet days, gritty days and so on over a long testing period using a real-life setup.

 

[Akelu]

And those ‘waxed-chain’ watts saved add up. ZFC alleges that over a full day road cycling, the energy saved can convert into enough increased speed to arrive 30mins earlier at the destination. Hard to believe, but they give the data.
These savings are obviously irrelevant in practice on most MTB’s (unless a race run looking for tenths) and especially emtb’s.

I'd argue those watts saved are not wasted on an EMTB if the rider is looking to maximize their battery life.

 

[Coolcmsc]

I'd argue those watts saved are not wasted on an EMTB if the rider is looking to maximize their battery life.

Theoretically, yes, I agree, I wasn’t strictly correct ?
What I was trying to get over was the idea that the waxed chain watts benefit from ride to ride is in my view swamped on emtbs, in the sense that other factors that change battery life from ride to ride for the same rider do so to a much greater degree. It would be hard to actually notice — and it’s quite easy to notice for fit racing roadies, if only on the stop watch.
I do agree however, that if you took two very well matched emtb riders onto a long road ride on their emtbs, one with a waxed chain, and they both maintained the same cadence as each other and the same constant ratio of rider effort to motor effort as each other and of course the weather would be the same (and so forth and so on), I the waxed chain rider would get significantly more km out of their battery over, say, 60km and 1800m climbing (or 90km with an extender). Yes, in that rather odd situation, I’m certain the waxed chain rider would be happier at the end (but only then) ?

 

[Kliman]

I have a turbo levo. I just changed my drivetrain (cassette, chains and chainring) at 3481km. I live in England and go out as I want so muddiness is common. My regime is to run three chains in series. I swap the chain over every hundred km or so, depending on prevailing conditions. I clean the chains by putting them in a bottle of small petrol and give it a good soak and shake. The most of the residual petrol will evaporate in a hour or so after removal. I then spray it with a water displacer (GT85) and stow it ready for its next turn. I have always reused the quick links and not had one fail. My drivetrain is 11s but this method is also employed on 12s too. I reckon the grit that wears the chain lives inside and the thorough cleaning gets a good deal of it out. This isn’t necessarily the best approach but it’s the best I’ve come to.

 

[geehaw]

As far as turning your pedals backwards, a zip tie between the crank and chain ring works great. As far as removing the chain, not something I would do. I rinse off my bike including chain with a low pressure hose and a soft brush after each ride. About every third ride I lube the chain using Rock n Roll gold which cleans and lubes the chain. I change the chain when it gets to around 0.6 wear. To date I have just on 3000km in 18 months and just started on my third chain. Cassette and chain ring still look pretty good and no problems shifting. I have Shimano XT components and use the Shimano CN-8100 chain @$70. Rather be riding than wasting time yanking my chain. But to each his own.

 

[Edwin]

I zip tie the crank to the pedal. This allows me to pedal backwards and use a chain cleaning tool with degreaser. Then I spray degreaser on the cassette and pedal backwards use a brush to it and the jockey wheels.
To prevent the degreaser getting in the rotors I own those Muc off rotor protectors.
When I am done I cut the zip tie and all done.
I bought a big bag of one use zip ties cheap on eBay.

 

[urastus]

n a dryer climate, the 2 or 3 chains are rotated ideally no more than every 300 -> 400km (or monthly if that works for the rider who rides less far).

I used to rotate 2 chains, but have stopped. What I found was that one chain, for whatever reason, had stretched a fair bit more than the other one. Now I'm just running one chain till it is at .75, then I'll swap it out.
My former regime, pre wax days, was recycling gearbox / diff oil from my vehicles; it looks clean when I drain it. I oil each link (between outer plates, and one drop in the gap of the roller and side plates. I do this on the inside of the chain because centrifugal force will force it to the outside of the chain.

For cleaning I used a rag with some kerosene in it, hold the rag tightly around the chain, then run the chain through it with the pedals. I'd also wipe chainring teeth and work the rag between the rings of the rear cluster. This used to be my biggest maintenance time cost.