Question for all EP8 drivers

[1oldfart]

Many bikes and Ebikes are geared for speed.
I often go for less teeth in front or more in rear.
This would help and imagine if you loose your assistance,
it is just a smart upgrade.

 

[steve_sordy]

Failed again today, despite me dialling up the Assistance Character from 7 to 8 on Trail, (it's 10 on Boost). I am getting to the point of being pissed off now. I will stop having a go as frequently, instead wait until I'm feeling lively!

 

[1oldfart]

Failed again today, despite me dialling up the Assistance Character from 7 to 8 on Trail, (it's 10 on Boost). I am getting to the point of being pissed off now. I will stop having a go as frequently, instead wait until I'm feeling lively!

Are many riders able to reach the top?
I love climbing, for Ebikes i prefer 2.8 or 3.0.

 

[steve_sordy]

Are many riders able to reach the top?
I love climbing, for Ebikes i prefer 2.8 or 3.0.

When I was riding that climb on an mtb, and took guided rides to it, most failed at the first attempt. I wasn't taking notes, but my general impression was that less than a third managed it no matter how many attempts they took.

I have not shown many emtb riders the climb, maybe 4-5. Again I have not been taking notes, more nursing my grievance and trying to appear "jolly" at my failure. My guess is that two did it at the first attempt, maybe one at the second. The good news is that the forthcoming Rideout next Sunday will introduce 12 riders, of which 7-8 will be bastard climb virgins.

PS: I don't lack grip, so going for a wider tyre will not add anything for me. I can get almost to the top and then I stall.

 

[1oldfart]

Once i went everyday and i made a climb on the 10th day/try.
I am not fast but with the correct gearing i have fun climbing,
good luck

 

[Davvee]

Failed again today, despite me dialling up the Assistance Character from 7 to 8 on Trail, (it's 10 on Boost). I am getting to the point of being pissed off now. I will stop having a go as frequently, instead wait until I'm feeling lively!

It’s cos I’m not there. You will do it when I’m back.

 

[johnc]

Think I’ve found the answer Steve.

 

[Dan63]

Don't be fooled by the Shiny new badge on the EP8. Its the same motor as an E8000 with new smaller/lighter cases and some software tweaking. Bosch Gen4 was a complete redesign. Shimano has missed the mark with EP8 and they have just updated the old E8000 to be relevant on paper.

 

[1oldfart]

Don't be fooled by the Shiny new badge on the EP8. Its the same motor as an E8000 with new smaller/lighter cases and some software tweaking. Bosch Gen4 was a complete redesign. Shimano has missed the mark with EP8 and they have just updated the old E8000 to be relevant on paper.

That is not big news.
A system does not work, it was not ready but they sold it.
They switch name to avoid the bad reputation.
Old story, they do it all the time.
Marketing is what many buy, a nice packaging, a nice story.

 

[Blokie]

That is not big news.
A system does not work, it was not ready but they sold it.
They switch name to avoid the bad reputation.
Old story, they do it all the time.
Marketing is what many buy, a nice packaging, a nice story.

I really don't see how you can come out with a sweeping statement that the Shimano motors do not work and are not ready for public use!

You may prefer the system from an alternative manufacturer, but that doesn't mean the Shimano one doesn't work....

 

[steve_sordy]

Don't be fooled by the Shiny new badge on the EP8. Its the same motor as an E8000 with new smaller/lighter cases and some software tweaking. Bosch Gen4 was a complete redesign. Shimano has missed the mark with EP8 and they have just updated the old E8000 to be relevant on paper.

What is your basis for that statement about the EP8 vs the e8000?
It delivers 21% more torque. It is physically smaller. It is lighter. None of those can be achieved by marketing or wishful thinking. The shafts have to be stronger (material or size), the bearings too and of course the gears. That amount of extra torque is not a trivial increase. We know that the clutch is different, hence the complaints about the tinkling when not pedalling, we know the weight is different too by about 300g (from memory). Oh and the internal frictional resistance is also down significantly, 30% or so. This contributes to the higher range achievable from the battery and the slightly higher top speed when pedalling past the cut off point. These significant changes have not been achieved by "updating to be relevant", it looks like a major redesign to me. The software changes were very much overdue and probably could have been rolled out to the e8000. I guess that they were bundling it all up for the EP8 launch.

One possible explanation could be that the old motor was over specified and was in fact much stronger than it was designed to be. With a company like Shimano I doubt that very much, and many riders of e8000 motors that wore out may agree.

 

[eMullet]

Update is somewhat vague expression. When is something considered updated? Is it percentage of new parts or percentage of new software codes? When Bosch say that they have "complete redesign" something, is it then 100% new software, cables, paint, lubes and parts?

 

[Rahr85]

Bring on the climb

 

[steve_sordy]

In my opinion, most "new designs" are little of the sort. It would be foolish to throw away the knowledge of the past. What worked before will work again. Radical change costs money (all that design work, all that tooling, the testing, launches.... etc). And the risk! OMG, what if it doesn't work? So the safe option is to change little. But the safe option often leads to stagnation. In a fast moving market, standing still looks like going backwards. Therefore something has to be done.

If the design objectives are changed, ie 30% more this, 30% less that, or "whatever you have to do to get the cost down by 50% for the same performance and sales volumes"; that sort of thing. Then whatever comes out the other end would qualify as a redesign, not a tweak, even if it might look pretty much the same to the outside observer.

 

[thecremeegg]

Can we get a video of this hill? I can get up a very steep, sandy hill near me with ease on my EP8 bike, just spin it. Any hill steeper than that I wouldn't be attempting on ANY bike tbh

 

[eMullet]

I agree with this.

 

[steve_sordy]

I finally did it! Today I got up that bastard hill! It has been defeating me since the start of this thread.

How did I do it? What was different?

I believe that the most significant factor is that I was off the bike for 4 weeks through illness and I had lost 12 lbs (5.4 kg). I went out on Sunday for the first ride for 4 weeks just to see how it went. I thought I would be feeling a loss of fitness, but I felt great, so I had a go at the climb today.
During the 4-week layoff my tyre pressures had dropped and I mistakenly pumped them up to 20F/24R (from my last mtb), instead of my usual 17F/20R. It was a good ride that day, so I left them at that pressure for today. I reset the sag% to allow for my weight loss, back to 30% F&R. Then reduced the rebound damping by a couple of clicks. That was the sum total of the physical changes.

My first attempt was in one gear smaller than usual and I stalled with my wheel touching the top of the climb (my best yet). That was in Trail, so I had another go in Boost. Success!!

I never lacked grip, so I doubt the tyre pressures made a difference, so it must be my reduced weight. However, I had tried without my backpack before and failed. This sounds a bit wet, but I did dream last night that I would do it.

 

[1oldfart]

Congrats and stay slim

 

[steve_sordy]

Congrats and stay slim

Thanks.
Without any effort, my weight is continuing to fall. Not as fast as previous, but it is slowly declining even now.

 

[steve_sordy]

Follow up: I have continued to get up that hill. Not every single time, but mostly. The key was the approach speed and then downshifting a couple of gears half way up. I struggle intellectually to shift under load, but there is a very small section where the climb is slightly flatter and I shift there as quickly and gently as I can. If I get the shift right, I succeed. If I don't, I fail; simple as.