Price increases
- Thread starter Keggie
- Start date
InRustWeTrust
E*POWAH Master
The main reason for the price increase is that there is a shortage of components and that the prices of components have risen
RichardGB
Member
That's not so bad.
Merida e160 900e RRP was £6300. The replacement model was the e160 10k where the main difference is the carbon front triangle cost nearly £10,000! Rear end was the same, same motor, same size battery (at launch), same fox factory suspension, simply a carbon front triangle and a few hundred grams saved for an extra £3700!
Absolutely nuts.
Merida e160 900e RRP was £6300. The replacement model was the e160 10k where the main difference is the carbon front triangle cost nearly £10,000! Rear end was the same, same motor, same size battery (at launch), same fox factory suspension, simply a carbon front triangle and a few hundred grams saved for an extra £3700!
Absolutely nuts.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
That is what we keep being told, but I can buy damn near any component I want and get a discount. I am currently under the impression that a great piss-take is upon us.
My 2021 Yamaha/Giant Stance E+ was 4,400$ in Canada and the similar
2022 is 4,700$. We feel kind of lucky in the US they pay more(when we adjust the value of our currencies).
They probably pay for a Trump Tax for import. It looks like transport is a big factor.
Today is the first day we can go many places without a mask so outdoor activities will probably
be less popular than the last 2 years. With the price of fuel i guess the bikes demand will stay high.
2022 is 4,700$. We feel kind of lucky in the US they pay more(when we adjust the value of our currencies).
They probably pay for a Trump Tax for import. It looks like transport is a big factor.
Today is the first day we can go many places without a mask so outdoor activities will probably
be less popular than the last 2 years. With the price of fuel i guess the bikes demand will stay high.
Yup, prices are creeping up. I may have purchased just under the wire in 2019 but I’ve consumed the consumables in the past few years. Hence my hording of spare parts affliction. (There are 9 Trek eMTB bikes in our circle so parts are exchanged), but waiting almost 9 months for an AXS dropper 
. Thankfully 2 of my Bontrager dropper’s were under warranty.
Im gonna make friends with other LBS…even if I have to drive to Squamish BC.
. Thankfully 2 of my Bontrager dropper’s were under warranty. Im gonna make friends with other LBS…even if I have to drive to Squamish BC.
At what point do we as ebike consumers call BULLSHIT!
With most ebikes costing more or same as high end moto bikes, we as consumers need to make a stance somehow and put and end to this blatant price gouging from manufactures like Specialized and others. You know as well as I do that the their $14K Levo probably costs them around $3K to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are paying for all of their R&D and marketing...which I'm sorry, but is no where near the R&D needed for lets say a 2022 KTM Factory Edition 450, which is around the same cost as the Levo!
I guess until all of us stupid idiots who keep forking over the money, things will never change, and so the stupidity will continue to just get worse.
We should all unite together and have a day/ week of ebike pricing protest!
With most ebikes costing more or same as high end moto bikes, we as consumers need to make a stance somehow and put and end to this blatant price gouging from manufactures like Specialized and others. You know as well as I do that the their $14K Levo probably costs them around $3K to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are paying for all of their R&D and marketing...which I'm sorry, but is no where near the R&D needed for lets say a 2022 KTM Factory Edition 450, which is around the same cost as the Levo!
I guess until all of us stupid idiots who keep forking over the money, things will never change, and so the stupidity will continue to just get worse.
We should all unite together and have a day/ week of ebike pricing protest!
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You could have done that the last 2 years.
My 2022 Yamaha/Giant is 4,400$ in USA, 4,700$ here in Canada but a Trek Rail starts about 7.500$ in Canada
and a Specialize starts over 8,300$.
My Ebike is as fun, as reliable but some pay 50% more and 1.88 more.
My local shop sells Giant and Trek but i have no interest for overpriced Trek, Specialized and others.
Unit price and volume of sales go hand in hand so there is no point comparing EMTB prices with MX prices etc. EMTB is still a niche market segment. Compare for example EMTB pricing with commuter/town Ebike prices. Apart from the fact most either have no suspension or only a spring fork, those bikes still consist frames, wheels tyres etc and are subject to transport costs, component availability etc yet are far less costly. That reflects the potential for larger volumes of sales in that market segment.
As per every market segment there are premium brands, and those seeking to forge a market share often using lower price as a differentiator. In a niche market they will however always struggle to compete.
As per every market segment there are premium brands, and those seeking to forge a market share often using lower price as a differentiator. In a niche market they will however always struggle to compete.
You must work for Specialized or one of the other big brands LOL ha! ha!
No you can't.
but even if you could it'd still be completely irrelevant to the current state of bulk OEM component supplies to bike manufacturers
or just virtually stamp your feet nerdily via the medium of online the message boards ad infinitum.
My heart bleeds for tyre kickers whinging about the prices of luxury items they were never going to buy being almost as expensive as other irellevant luxury items they also have no intention of ever buying.
No, I own the factory KTM 450...and can fully understand the price. With a mountain bike that costs the same, no not at all
if you own a KTM that costs the same as a mountainbike it's not a factory bike in anything other than name.
Top end bicycles cost quite a lot.
Top end motorcycles cost an extraordinary amount
Solution:
Stop comparing product prices from entirely different sports/industries
Top end bicycles cost quite a lot.
Top end motorcycles cost an extraordinary amount
Solution:
Stop comparing product prices from entirely different sports/industries
Ha! That's funny! You must be a brand ambassador for one of the big mtb companies and either get your bike for free or substantially discounted? Seems like I've hit a nerve with a few folks
Pretty easy to tell which folks on here don't have to pay the BS prices like the rest of us, just to get a bike that can handle normal riding.
Which is even more disturbing, is that some of you think that these prices are justified
a factory KTM is hundreds of thousands if not more
you can still buy an Emtb for £3k but you don't actually have to buy anything. so stop moaning
you can still buy an Emtb for £3k but you don't actually have to buy anything. so stop moaning
Richridesmtb
Member
KTM 450 SX-F FACTORY EDITION 2022
www.ktm.com
S-Works Turbo Levo
The Levo delivers the unbelievable power to ride more trails through an unequaled combination of ride quality, usable power, and ride anywhere range. It...
Makes all the shiny orange bits look cheap I suppose.
Pdoz
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Ha! That's funny! You must be a brand ambassador for one of the big mtb companies and either get your bike for free or substantially discounted? Seems like I've hit a nerve with a few folks
Pretty easy to tell which folks on here don't have to pay the BS prices like the rest of us, just to get a bike that can handle normal riding.
Which is even more disturbing, is that some of you think that these prices are justified
There's a huge difference between a " ready to race" sticker and a factory motorbike . Even the true race replica bikes produced by ktm are below the actual factory riders bikes. I know that 15 years ago a ktm 660 ralle was $50 k , bloody nice to ride but even that wasn't the same as the bikes the factory team were fronting up to dakar on. Meanwhile, a ktm 640 adv " ready to race" was selling at $12 k. I've thrown a leg over all 3 , and also tasted an isde winning ktm - NOTHING like the same riders " ready to race " production bike!
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Let me break this down easily for you in my perspective. I have on order a Rail 9.8XT ($12,999), but lets compare it to the analogue bike its based off (Trek Slash 9.8XT RRP = $8,999) Fork, shock, gears, frame, brakes are all the same and the slash has slightly more expensive wheels
Now lets add in prices for the electric parts controller, Display, Battery and Motor. The battery in 630wh format is $1550 NZD I'd anticipate the 750wh being around $1800, Display & controller is around $380 NZD and Motor is $1200. Total difference for electric parts = $3380.00
$12,999 minus $3,380 = $9619 so I'm potentially paying $600ish dollars more than the analogue bike, I don't feel ripped off in the slightest.
Note all prices $NZD (the electric are guesstimates based off euro prices but I'd expect them to be higher than what they would be once they arrive in NZ)
Richridesmtb
Member
I feel like this is like saying if you buy a specialized demo you will get Loic Bruni's bike. His is far more expensive, far more optimised and not at all what you can buy off the shelf.
Aussie78
Member
Even more obvious is the example of the Ducati Superleggera V4. I know someone that has one. It’s god damned sexy. The attention to detail is exquisite.
Ducati’s best offering. 100k usd. Carbon composite frame and wheels, does a 1:52 around Mugello in showroom condition. Fabio Quartararo has a Mugello lap record on the YZR-M1 at 1:45 from 2021. Race time are in the 1:47’s.
For a production bike with a headlight and indicators, that’s a staggeringly fast time.
The Yamaha MotoGP team budget? Suggested to be in the 11-18 million USD range. Makes the production Superleggera v4 seem cheap. Two bike MotoGP team. 7 seconds a rider gap to the production bike. About a million a second if we call the budget 14 million. So is the Supermeggera value for money? Hell yes if you want to go silly fast as a weekend warrior. See the comparisons I’m making here?. People like to compare a top of the market ebike, to a bottom of the market place Moto. Race bikes for motorcross are again silly silly money, and the “factory race bike” is not the same as the bike the factory rider is on. Similar yes, but a ton of hours go into its build. All the way down to all threads are prepared with timeserts or helicoils. All parts are cryo treated. Everything custom. Everything run though the dyno before accepted as ready to race.
No one is denying good ebikes are expensive. Good bikes are expensive full stop. If the retail price is too much to swallow for a complete ebike, Dengfu has ebike frame kits now. Inflation is in full effect in the bike industry, and supply and demand is working as per the theory.
What’s not obvious to the consumer is what’s going on in the background on the supply side:
Covid supply shortages of materials and finished goods are real.
R&D costs up the wazoo. Ever been involved in an industry that’s faced a paradigm shift? Many mistakes, many costly recalls, repairs and warranty replacements. It’s this fact alone that has Specialized dealers pointing to Sworks prices almost doubling in 4 years. I know people on their 7th motor inside 2 years.
Shipping cost increases are indeed a real issue, adding to base costs. Ex East cost China to East Coast USA pre covid was 5k usd for a 40ft container. That’s now 25k.
The demand side of the equation has changed too. It’s the biggest growth market. What business isn’t trying to maximise profits? You’re either a charity, or for profit. There is no middle ground.
Here's the thing bro.
The UCI rule that every bike raced at WC has to be available to purchase by us. The punter. Within one year of its use at a, WC.
So you genuinely can actually stroll into a Spesh or Santa cruz dealer and buy the exact same frame that placed on the podium at the last race (or at least last year's). The components they use are generally all off the shelf items (other than occasional small aesthetic personal touches).
This guy is moaning about the price if a Spesh Ebike that's probably HIGHER spec than Bruni's
I see your Ducati and raise you a Honda RC213V-S...
2016 Honda RC213V-S 1000cc for sale for £199,000 in Shipley, Yorkshire (autotrader.co.uk)
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
As much as I love motorcycles, and raced in an era when we had to add metal to make the minimum weight limits on some hand built bikes one can not make comparisons against MotoGP or even MXGP works exotica ... or even high end production bikes.
The comparison is say a Trek Rail/Levo Comp/Merida 160 or whatever against something like a TT-R125LWE or a DRZ-400E, which in reality are bikes that compete for discretionary dollars and are priced at a similar price point to a decent eMTB.
Go look through some parts lists and compare the prices for similar components. The argument that bicycle parts are more expensive because they are smaller and more delicate in construction is a load of shit. Working through wholesale distributors one will find that most bicycle parts such as brake pads, chains, disk rotors, frames, handlebars etc come of the same production lines as no-name products that are a fraction of the price. The cost per unit is way lower than most similar motorcycle products due to far less material being required and the scale of economics is vastly superior on the bicycle side as the sheer number of bicycles sold compared to dirt bikes (not even going to hint at road bike parts and prices here).
The reality is that we tend to be fashion whores when it comes to our bikes. We upgrade often and usually tend to bling things up to personalize our bikes. That we have for years paid too much and constantly continue to do so is licence for the manufacturers to demand a premium.
Not happy with it - then ride a 10 or 20 year old bike that you can buy cheap parts for.
The comparison is say a Trek Rail/Levo Comp/Merida 160 or whatever against something like a TT-R125LWE or a DRZ-400E, which in reality are bikes that compete for discretionary dollars and are priced at a similar price point to a decent eMTB.
Go look through some parts lists and compare the prices for similar components. The argument that bicycle parts are more expensive because they are smaller and more delicate in construction is a load of shit. Working through wholesale distributors one will find that most bicycle parts such as brake pads, chains, disk rotors, frames, handlebars etc come of the same production lines as no-name products that are a fraction of the price. The cost per unit is way lower than most similar motorcycle products due to far less material being required and the scale of economics is vastly superior on the bicycle side as the sheer number of bicycles sold compared to dirt bikes (not even going to hint at road bike parts and prices here).
The reality is that we tend to be fashion whores when it comes to our bikes. We upgrade often and usually tend to bling things up to personalize our bikes. That we have for years paid too much and constantly continue to do so is licence for the manufacturers to demand a premium.
Not happy with it - then ride a 10 or 20 year old bike that you can buy cheap parts for.
Richridesmtb
Member
I'm not sure you'll buy a demo with a custom frame size, 3d printed levers and custom suspension off the shelf, bro. What you will buy is an alloy frame with the same linkage design in 'roughly the same ' size and geometry in an S4. Not a bike that would equate to tens of thousands of dollars to roll down the racetrack.
So again, these comparisons are indeed ridiculous.
Back to the point though, Pinkbike have been keeping tabs on the industry and, surprise, surprise, they have mostly been having a bumper couple of years. The high turnover of bike manufacturers by private investment companies also indicates they have been doing very well and there is a lot of cream to make there. I don't know the numbers, but the vague dirtbike to mtb comparison is possibly getting closer something vaguely valid. I think would be beginning to come closer in units sold per year. There are a huge number of older folks buying mtbs and ebikes. One difference is there are fewer manufacturers of dirt bikes than mtbs so a diluted pool for R&D, warranty in the mtb industry.
But to say things have been creeping in line with inflation is pretty daft. The bike industry is doing pretty well at the moment and it is because we're willing to line up and pay what they're asking. The sting of inflation (actual real world, not bike world) is that wages will not keep up at first. The heavily in debt will have less money to spend and those retired will also see their position reduced. The industry may have to temper their price increases or enjoy slimmer margins due to declining sales.
Some riders do not see the planet. More bikes will be sold because cars are slower in traffic.
More Ebikes will be sold because they make sense, no parking problem.
Maybe some years bikes over 6,000$US will see their sales stay flat but that is
a small portion of all bikes/Ebikes sold yearly on this planet.
Our best option is used bikes prices coming down in my opinion.
More Ebikes will be sold because they make sense, no parking problem.
Maybe some years bikes over 6,000$US will see their sales stay flat but that is
a small portion of all bikes/Ebikes sold yearly on this planet.
Our best option is used bikes prices coming down in my opinion.
It's all bullshit!
First it was the covid to blame now it's Ukraine war, shortage here shortage there.
Example: I'm in the paint business where we have had a third time price increase of 7.5% this year! The manufacturers have as excuse that there is a shortage of raw materials. But the next week's we get an offer of 10% extra discount on our professional price if we buy X amount of it. Where is the logic in that.
First it was the covid to blame now it's Ukraine war, shortage here shortage there.
Example: I'm in the paint business where we have had a third time price increase of 7.5% this year! The manufacturers have as excuse that there is a shortage of raw materials. But the next week's we get an offer of 10% extra discount on our professional price if we buy X amount of it. Where is the logic in that.
stonedwolf
New Member
The crux of it is this : the more money you print the more inflation you get.
We've had two years of printing GDP-scale money printing be it the EU, US, UK. Even without the extra costs of the war in Ukraine (wheat, food oil) and the related but not identical issue of sanctions on Russia (gas, oil, industrial minerals) we'd be several years of recession followed by several years of stagnation.
We've had two years of printing GDP-scale money printing be it the EU, US, UK. Even without the extra costs of the war in Ukraine (wheat, food oil) and the related but not identical issue of sanctions on Russia (gas, oil, industrial minerals) we'd be several years of recession followed by several years of stagnation.
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