Price increases

[Coolcmsc]

.

@tomato paste So how long have you spent in large Aero Engine engineering? I'll claim 11 years.
Air sucked in at front. add a compressor or 2 , mixed with fuel, gasses compressed spat out back at twice the speed. Vehicle it is attached to goes forward.

HaHa! Point well made. But of course you hide the complexity running all that, all those bits and pieces. A bit like saying a bike frame is really simple — cupla triangles and a poky-down thing at the front — and then neglecting all the design stuff and the bits hanging off. I know a bit about anaesthesiology and some say it’s simple too: “One of the big syringes, two of the little ones and sit down and read the paper” ???
But to repeat, you’re correct really in the point you’re making ?

 

[tomato paste]

@tomato paste So how long have you spent in large Aero Engine engineering? I'll claim 11 years.
Air sucked in at front. add a compressor or 2 , mixed with fuel, gasses compressed spat out back at twice the speed. Vehicle it is attached to goes forward.

Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. I'm no engineer, former mil aviator.

 

[EME]

.
But of course you hide the complexity running all that, all those bits and pieces. A bit like saying a bike frame is really simple — cupla triangles and a poky-down thing at the front — and then neglecting all the design stuff and the bits hanging off. I know a bit about anaesthesiology and some say it’s simple too: “One of the big syringes, two of the little ones and sit down and read the paper” ???

I'm not trying to. deride aviation or space engineering. Just trying to point out politely that the example of a jet engine was a crap one in this context. Im sure there are some Aviation/Aeronautical / Space engineers on here who could more eloquently Han I explain that power plants have not been a technical barrier to pushing forward boundaries e.g. supersonic air travel for 60 years .. but that is not to take away from their beauty and ever improving reliability and efficiency.

Al's point was an excellent one. This 'thread drift' total nonsense, I should behave and go and pick my bike up ( from my LBS ) where I have undoubtedly been totally ripped off by the owners, who can see nothing but $ signs -- and who obviously have zero interest in making money 'cos otherwise they would be doing something a lot more profitable than repairing / upgrading my bike. I guess they must love what they are doing ----- just a little bit?

 

[tomato paste]

Lets pick something else, engines were just the first thing that came to mind when I read Rob's post re: toilet paper. Cars might be a better example? Car prices have stayed fairly constant, haven't they?

Some local dealers may be the beneficiary of price increases, maybe not. Its unlikely to be component manufacturers, their prices don't typically change quickly or by large amounts. I have a feeling local dealers just pass on the prices they face to end consumers, holding some markup constant.

 

[Doomanic]

TLR

Yawn.

 

[Bellefield]

Once lockdown is over, I suspect that we are going to see a couple of things.

1) while some of the new EMTBers will remain, we will lose some and there will be a lot more second hand EMTB's on ebay and in local press.

2) the lack of supply that we have seen in the last 12 months will be overcompensated for and we will see an over supply, possibly during this year as both suppliers increase their manufacturing to meet the current demand, and the future demand falls off as people can do team sports again, and the interest in cycling reduces, and also because most of those who have invested in an expensive e-bike will not be buying an upgrade any time soon.

Overall, this may see us with the opposite of what we saw last year, more e--bikes in the shops, and a lower take up curve, so hopefully some incentives from the big manufacturers to the LBS's to give discounts.

I think that eMTB's are definitively the way forward, they are here to stay and help everyone get out and ride, even if its just for a commute. They are a big investment for most people though, so I doubt there will be many with multiple e-bikes in their garages (unlike we did with our analogue bikes).

 

[steve_sordy]

We should price everything by the number of Mars bars we could buy. See this article in the Financial Times.

The mars bar standard

To regain my financial bearings I have become addicted to the Mars Bar

www.ft.com

Time it was updated though.

 

[steve_sordy]

Hmm. For those who do not subscribe to the Financial Times (I don't either) read here:

The mars bar standard
To regain my financial bearings I have become addicted to the Mars Bar
Nico Colchester MARCH 3 2006

The cumulative changes in the real value of the pound since the Second World War has been so great that most people are now completely disorientated when attempting to compare prices over any period of time. Have we become richer? Is the cost of that once-in-a-decade purchase reasonable? Far from telling us where we stand, our pay cheque has become an opiate to protect us from unpalatable reality. In my own effort to regain my financial bearings I have become increasingly addicted to the Mars Bar. The Mars Bar is a currency for our time: it is a long-established basket of staple commodities (cocoa, vegetable fats, milk solids, sugar) packaged with great consistency in the form of an ingot. As such it is a reliable unit of account certainly more reliable than gold, which is prone to speculation and it preserves a remarkably constant real value. I have measured my wealth in Mars Bars since an early age, though the motive for doing so has changed. The table shows some selected price changes since 1940. It may seem absurd that the pay of the young graduate joining ICI has gone from £275 in 1940 to £5,700 today. Yet in real, which is to say Mars Bar, terms his pay has advanced modestly, rising from MB 33,000 in 1940 to MB 38,000 today. This means the modern young man is only marginally better placed to buy his first small car. The Morris 8 would have cost him MB 19,200 in 1940 while the Mini costs 19,333 today. It would be surprising, indeed suspicious, if everything displayed Mars Bar price stability. The Mars Bar standard helps us see where the young executive is worse and better off. His train ticket to Oxford has dropped in price from MB 50 to MB 35 over the forty years. But a helping of roast beef and Yorkshire pudding at Simpson in the Strand has risen from MB 24 to MB 39 today. The chairman’s Rolls has become still more unattainable. In 1940 it cost MB 204,000 (£1,100 for the chassis, £600 for the body from Park Ward). By 1960 it cost £5,800, and today’s Silver Spirit sells for £52,000 or a discouraging MB 347,000. If space allowed I would take the reader into the intricacies of Mars Bar money: international convertibility, transatlantic arbitrage, the euro-Mars Bar, the way money consumption automatically limits money supply, and variations of liquidity with temperature. Suffice it to say that the real price stability of the Mars Bar is a triumphant vindication of Hayek’s theory of competitive currencies. Competition has forced the American-based issuing agency not to debase the coinage. Indeed, far from being clipped, the Mars Bar has recently been increased in weight from 57 to 59 grams. There must be a moral behind this conundrum: the pound has plunged in real value despite all the efforts of government and Bank to preserve its apparent worth, yet the Mars Bar has held its worth despite the untiring efforts of the issuer to make it seem as cheap as possible. Monetary experts should chew this one over.

 

[Norange]

"Most likely (which is only my opinion) is that bike brands recognized COVID is a gift from heaven."

Honestly wouldn't be so sure about that. IME (outside the bike industry but in manufacturing), orders have increased but the supply chain and logistics have been a wild ride this year. And things like lifecycles in the bike industry are obviously really short, meaning such significant forecast shifts have the potential to do real damage.

 

[Mikerb]

Hmm. For those who do not subscribe to the Financial Times (I don't either) read here:

The mars bar standard
To regain my financial bearings I have become addicted to the Mars Bar
Nico Colchester MARCH 3 2006

The cumulative changes in the real value of the pound since the Second World War has been so great that most people are now completely disorientated when attempting to compare prices over any period of time. Have we become richer? Is the cost of that once-in-a-decade purchase reasonable? Far from telling us where we stand, our pay cheque has become an opiate to protect us from unpalatable reality. In my own effort to regain my financial bearings I have become increasingly addicted to the Mars Bar. The Mars Bar is a currency for our time: it is a long-established basket of staple commodities (cocoa, vegetable fats, milk solids, sugar) packaged with great consistency in the form of an ingot. As such it is a reliable unit of account certainly more reliable than gold, which is prone to speculation and it preserves a remarkably constant real value. I have measured my wealth in Mars Bars since an early age, though the motive for doing so has changed. The table shows some selected price changes since 1940. It may seem absurd that the pay of the young graduate joining ICI has gone from £275 in 1940 to £5,700 today. Yet in real, which is to say Mars Bar, terms his pay has advanced modestly, rising from MB 33,000 in 1940 to MB 38,000 today. This means the modern young man is only marginally better placed to buy his first small car. The Morris 8 would have cost him MB 19,200 in 1940 while the Mini costs 19,333 today. It would be surprising, indeed suspicious, if everything displayed Mars Bar price stability. The Mars Bar standard helps us see where the young executive is worse and better off. His train ticket to Oxford has dropped in price from MB 50 to MB 35 over the forty years. But a helping of roast beef and Yorkshire pudding at Simpson in the Strand has risen from MB 24 to MB 39 today. The chairman’s Rolls has become still more unattainable. In 1940 it cost MB 204,000 (£1,100 for the chassis, £600 for the body from Park Ward). By 1960 it cost £5,800, and today’s Silver Spirit sells for £52,000 or a discouraging MB 347,000. If space allowed I would take the reader into the intricacies of Mars Bar money: international convertibility, transatlantic arbitrage, the euro-Mars Bar, the way money consumption automatically limits money supply, and variations of liquidity with temperature. Suffice it to say that the real price stability of the Mars Bar is a triumphant vindication of Hayek’s theory of competitive currencies. Competition has forced the American-based issuing agency not to debase the coinage. Indeed, far from being clipped, the Mars Bar has recently been increased in weight from 57 to 59 grams. There must be a moral behind this conundrum: the pound has plunged in real value despite all the efforts of government and Bank to preserve its apparent worth, yet the Mars Bar has held its worth despite the untiring efforts of the issuer to make it seem as cheap as possible. Monetary experts should chew this one over.

What a load of tosh! Does he realise a Mars Bar which cost sixpence ( 2.5p) in the 1950s was about 4 times the size of a standard Mars Bar costing 65p now...and I am talking from personal experience rather than using some non existant price relationship to make a familiar FT political point. A "young" graduate.....by which of course he means someone 21 or 22 years old minimum.....joining ICI for £5700 p.a.!!!! in 2006. Nonsence. We employed grads ( milk round) on a starting pay of £24k in 2006. This article must have been a major embarrassment for a rag calling itself the Financial Times.

 

[Pdoz]

Hmm. For those who do not subscribe to the Financial Times (I don't either) read here:

The mars bar standard
To regain my financial bearings I have become addicted to the Mars Bar
Nico Colchester MARCH 3 2006

The cumulative changes in the real value of the pound since the Second World War has been so great that most people are now completely disorientated when attempting to compare prices over any period of time. Have we become richer? Is the cost of that once-in-a-decade purchase reasonable? Far from telling us where we stand, our pay cheque has become an opiate to protect us from unpalatable reality. In my own effort to regain my financial bearings I have become increasingly addicted to the Mars Bar. The Mars Bar is a currency for our time: it is a long-established basket of staple commodities (cocoa, vegetable fats, milk solids, sugar) packaged with great consistency in the form of an ingot. As such it is a reliable unit of account certainly more reliable than gold, which is prone to speculation and it preserves a remarkably constant real value. I have measured my wealth in Mars Bars since an early age, though the motive for doing so has changed. The table shows some selected price changes since 1940. It may seem absurd that the pay of the young graduate joining ICI has gone from £275 in 1940 to £5,700 today. Yet in real, which is to say Mars Bar, terms his pay has advanced modestly, rising from MB 33,000 in 1940 to MB 38,000 today. This means the modern young man is only marginally better placed to buy his first small car. The Morris 8 would have cost him MB 19,200 in 1940 while the Mini costs 19,333 today. It would be surprising, indeed suspicious, if everything displayed Mars Bar price stability. The Mars Bar standard helps us see where the young executive is worse and better off. His train ticket to Oxford has dropped in price from MB 50 to MB 35 over the forty years. But a helping of roast beef and Yorkshire pudding at Simpson in the Strand has risen from MB 24 to MB 39 today. The chairman’s Rolls has become still more unattainable. In 1940 it cost MB 204,000 (£1,100 for the chassis, £600 for the body from Park Ward). By 1960 it cost £5,800, and today’s Silver Spirit sells for £52,000 or a discouraging MB 347,000. If space allowed I would take the reader into the intricacies of Mars Bar money: international convertibility, transatlantic arbitrage, the euro-Mars Bar, the way money consumption automatically limits money supply, and variations of liquidity with temperature. Suffice it to say that the real price stability of the Mars Bar is a triumphant vindication of Hayek’s theory of competitive currencies. Competition has forced the American-based issuing agency not to debase the coinage. Indeed, far from being clipped, the Mars Bar has recently been increased in weight from 57 to 59 grams. There must be a moral behind this conundrum: the pound has plunged in real value despite all the efforts of government and Bank to preserve its apparent worth, yet the Mars Bar has held its worth despite the untiring efforts of the issuer to make it seem as cheap as possible. Monetary experts should chew this one over.

So climate change really is an economic threat - imagine trying to count the musk melting mars mess

 

[steve_sordy]

What a load of tosh! Does he realise a Mars Bar which cost sixpence ( 2.5p) in the 1950s was about 4 times the size of a standard Mars Bar costing 65p now...and I am talking from personal experience rather than using some non existant price relationship to make a familiar FT political point. A "young" graduate.....by which of course he means someone 21 or 22 years old minimum.....joining ICI for £5700 p.a.!!!! in 2006. Nonsence. We employed grads ( milk round) on a starting pay of £24k in 2006. This article must have been a major embarrassment for a rag calling itself the Financial Times.

Hmm, not sure about your 4x claim, that would make the original Mars bar about 200gm (over 7 ounces!) But I cannot dispute your inside knowledge of ICI graduate pay, and I agree that it does seem very low. Did you know that Mars played around with different sizes of Mars bars? They went from some quite small looking ones that were meant to be sold as twin packs (not referring to funsize or snacksize), all the way up to the ones big enough to choke a pig! I believe that the latter were called Jubilee bars - that must have been 2002.

From recollection the article caused quite a stir at the time (which is why I remembered it). It kept being quoted in the financial press for several months. I don't recall any articles attacking the basic premise of the concept, or the facts behind it. Eventually the interest died down; but whether that was from boredom or the exposure of flaws in the argument as you describe, I have no idea. Detail flaws or not, the idea has some merit, which is why I guess it caught on so well.

I'm confident that it was all ever only meant as a bit of fun, a space filler at best.

From "thisismoney,co.uk"
In the 1980s, a standard Mars bar weighed 49g, increased to 65g in the 1990s and dropped to 51g in 2015.
I don't know what they weigh today, nor what they weighed in the 50's.