Price increases

Al Boneta

Dark Rider
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Jan 18, 2018
1,351
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California
As a dealer I don’t set the retail prices of the bike brands I sell. I sign a dealer agreement and I am contractually bound to maintain the MSRP the brand dictates. I am allowed to have sales a few times a year, but other than when a bike is no longer the current model year, I am stuck with that price.
The reason brands do this is to prevent dealers from undercutting each other and keep things fair.
Now, I have been in the business since I was 12 years old, starting with sweeping the floor at my neighborhood bike shop and eventually becoming a a product manager at Specialized. Even though we are supposed to maintain MSRPs, shops still cut each other’s throats trying to steal sales away from each other. It’s happened for as long as I can remember.
Margins have been on a steady decline for the last 20 years. When I managed my first shop at 18, most shops operated at a 40% margin. Operating costs were between 20-30% depending on the season. That left us with 10-20% profit.
Before the global pandemic, margins shrank to 25-35%. Operating costs have steadily increased to 30-35%. So now the potential profit is 0-10%. Does that seem sustainable?
EBike margins are not as good as acoustic bikes.
Ebikes cost more to ship than acoustic bikes.
Ebikes increase insurance costs to bike shops
Ebikes require more training for technicians and sales staff
Ebikes require specific tools and parts
that are becoming increasingly more
expensive. Lithium cell balancer? Yeah I have one and it was $3500.
Ebikes take longer to service and require more after sale care.
I could keep going on, but ultimately we sell Ebikes because they are just more fun.
Brands and Manufacturers have had to operate with same increased costs. Shipping has gone through the roof. Disposal fees for batteries and electric waste has quadrupled in the last 5 years because of the paradigm shift to “clean” energy.
Nobody in this business is out to gouge or chisel anyone. We were more pissed off about decreased supply and price increases than our customers.
At the same time we still have to able to operate at break even or our 5% end profit to provide a living wage for our staff.
These are just the tip of the the iceberg when it comes to price increases. You want to talk a bout greedy bike brands or bike shops? Back in the 60s and 70s the shop I work at operated with 10% overhead and bike margins were 50% or more.
here is a video of Huntington Beach looking toward Long Beach and San Pedro, one of the biggest shipping ports on the west coast
Some of these ships have been waiting upwards of two months to be unloaded
 

Darren

Active member
Sep 25, 2019
191
246
Warwick
Manufacturers enforcing retail pricing would be illegal in Europe.
The law is to ensure consumers are able to negotiate the best deal, it's not to protect retailers however.

Like so many markets now days, base products do not drive big revenues, additional services, add ons, upgrades and customers services are necessary diversifications for many bricks and mortar retailers. Even then it's becoming increasingly difficult to compete with online only outlets.

I don't know the first thing about bike retailing but I sympathise with your plight, shipping is in a big mess with containers sat in docks all around the western world.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
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Mar 29, 2018
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Thanks Al

Far too many self entitled whiners online posting utter bollocks about the bike trade and how as customers they feel ripped off .. Hopefully some will read your post.

Darren. In your first paragraph you're wrong.
The first sentence in your third paragraph explains why. ?

What, Al said regarding dealership is pretty much the same here.
 

Darren

Active member
Sep 25, 2019
191
246
Warwick
Darren. In your first paragraph you're wrong.
The first sentence in your third paragraph explains why. ?
I added that disclaimer just for you.
But surely that's vertical price fixing?
I worked for a company that was fined 900 million Euros for it lol
 

Jimbo Vills

E*POWAH Master
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May 15, 2020
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Manufacturers enforcing retail pricing would be illegal in Europe.
The law is to ensure consumers are able to negotiate the best deal, it's not to protect retailers however.

Think that’s why they call it ‘recommended’ retail price?

But they can chose what £ they sell to their suppliers for.... thus dictating the the price, as the shops need to earn a certain % which the manufacturers know is about RRP?! Not rocket science is it....

Great post Al. Very interesting post.

I think if anyone who buys something then moans about the price shouldn’t have bought it in the first place.

Pays your money. Enjoy your bike! ??
 

Rob Rides EMTB

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Jan 14, 2018
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I have been out of retail for a couple of years. But, manufacturers / suppliers conspiring to set and fix retail prices was certainly illegal in the UK. And as far as I know nothing has changed. A retailer in the UK is free to set whatever price they see fit.

However, a supplier refusing to supply a retailer... has definitely been something that I am aware of happening. Make of that what you will.
 

EME

MUPPET
Aug 14, 2020
262
230
Zug
We Europeans are getting the wrong end of the stick. The USA IS in fact a hell of a lot more competitive than here. RRP isn’t a maximum so in individual European markets which may have sole distributors , selling prices can often be more than RRP.

The US does have the concept of MAP , minimum advertised price (?in my experience, frequently about 10% less than MRSP. Whilst B2B pricing structures are generally a function of MRSP , there is no lower limit as implied above. Given the nature of the USA , that makes for a far more complétive price sensitive market than were used to in Europe All imho of course.
 

Darren

Active member
Sep 25, 2019
191
246
Warwick
Direct enforcement of pricing is illegal.
However, I do agree there are lots of ways a manufacturer can make it very difficult for retailers who don't dance to their tune. The ways are often subtle, complex, underhand or distasteful (but not rocket science clearly).
It took the Office of Fair Trading 12 years to come to a conclusion on the case I was involved with.
 

Jimbo Vills

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Collusion and price fixing is very different from a manufacturer setting a base cost to supply their product to the market.

Not saying the manufactures don’t talk, who knows they might to bump prices up.

But if specialised for example want to sell their levo comps for 5k to retailers with a 6.3k rrp. They know the retailers can’t move a lot more under that 6.3k otherwise they can’t turn a profit.....

So they can dictate the market which tbh they are perfectly entitled to imo
 

Darren

Active member
Sep 25, 2019
191
246
Warwick
I think we can all agree that independent retailing has a bumpy road ahead.
Like it's sitting at the top of a black run on a Raleigh Tomahawk.
 

Jimbo Vills

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May 15, 2020
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They are not perfectly entitled to dictate anything other than the price they sell it at. If the retailer wants to give away every bike for free they are entitled to do it.

Read my post. That’s what I said. They can sell it for any price they like.

So can set a base price that retailers then need to sell it for to squeeze out a margin.
 

Pigin

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2020
300
400
Saddleworth
I, like a lot of my friends, will always try and support local “small” businesses but there comes a point whereby it becomes just too much. Time was when my wallet just couldn’t justify it and it was always the cheapest option. Now I can afford to pay that little bit extra for the customer service but if the service isn’t there then the wallet walks.

The reason I say this is that local small businesses need to know what it is they are supplying. Robs interview of Berkshire Cycles shows a successful business with a very grounded attitude. Hence they have not only won this year but will no doubt continue to be successful going forward.

Prices/discounts/profits. With all of these things it is important to understand that the cost is totally different to the value.

Hope I haven’t missed the point.
 
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R120

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Apr 13, 2018
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I think it’s very difficult for any independent retailer to make a success out of a specialist store these days.

I have never worked in a bike shop, but have in skateboard and snowboard stores, and where we made the money was in the accessories and smaller items rather than the big ticket items.

Especially in the skateboard store, kids spending their pocket money on stickers, patches, caps etc was a real money spinner, and kept the main business of selling skate decks viable.

One thing I have noticed is that hardly any bike shops have decent stock of riding kit anymore, simply because it’s not cost effective for them to hold large amounts of stock across all sizes, and it seems like bike shops are more and more a place to buy a bike or service it, whereas I remember as a kid bike shops being a cornucopia of cool parts and kit I would lust after on top of the bikes themselves. I don’t think I have bought any helmet or riding wear in a shop for years, and seems like that market is predominantly online now, with a lot of the other revenue streams bike shops used to have being minimised.

It also seem that few shops keep stock of high end parts - none of my local shops would hold stock of say Foz Factory forks/shocks, and would need to order them in.

However I also remember the great rollerblade boom and bust - in the mid 90’s rollerblading was flying high, it was in the x games, all the kids wanted them, and skateparks whew full of of rollerbladers, bit like scooters now - a lot of shops went all in and invested in big ranges and stock of rollerblades, a much more expensive item than a skateboard deck in terms of upfront costs - the market then crashed and rollerblading was no longer cool, and a lot of shops got burnt by this as skateboarding was still in the doldrums.

Same goes for ski/snowboard shops - bottom dropped out the market and now you don’t see them much outside of resorts - back in the mid noighties there where about 5 great snowboard shops in central London, now none except for a few rails of boards in some of the ski retailers. You can pretty much only buy a decent board online now in the UK.

Does make me wonder if shops will go all in on EMTB only for the market to drop off - I can see regular ebikes being a staple of growing demand, but how often to people buy new high end EMTB’s once they already have a decent one?
 

Al Boneta

Dark Rider
Patreon
Founding Member
Jan 18, 2018
1,351
2,603
California
Collusion and price fixing is very different from a manufacturer setting a base cost to supply their product to the market.

Not saying the manufactures don’t talk, who knows they might to bump prices up.

But if specialised for example want to sell their levo comps for 5k to retailers with a 6.3k rrp. They know the retailers can’t move a lot more under that 6.3k otherwise they can’t turn a profit.....

So they can dictate the market which tbh they are perfectly entitled to imo
If we paid 5k for a Levo and sold it for 6.3k, it wouldn’t be worth doing.
 
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urastus

⚡The Whippet⚡
May 4, 2020
1,548
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Tasmania
It isn't just e bikes that have gone up in retail cost; I see the same thing with watches, which is a small interest of mine. Many watches that are considered good in the watch community were considerably cheaper as recently as November 2020. I have a friend who has said the same for knives and rifles. Oh, and old axes :ROFLMAO: and puppies (pets).

It seems that many of us have had some time on our hands to ponder our interests all at the same time.

More demand means they can ask a higher price - whoever they is. Supply and demand; "the price of a good tends to increase when the supply of that good decreases (making it more rare) or when the demand for that good increases (making the good more sought after)". Didn't we see this with toilet paper not so long ago? Or hand sanitizer? Or the ingredients to make hand sanitizer?

Welcome to the free economy.
 
Last edited:

The Hodge

Mystic Meg
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Sep 9, 2020
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Depending on location another income stream for independents is in the hire business ..I wouldn't know the exact figures ( and certainly wouldn't ask ) but my mate & local LBS owner who is in a prime location to do this must have at least 70% plus turnover from "tourists" hiring bikes ..with the majority hiring ebikes ..( when lockdown restrictions aren't in place )
After a certain number of "user hours" he will sell each bike for a price he determines as being fair ..
Its a great business model which works for him and folks who want a decent bike at a lower price ..
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
9,017
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Lincolnshire, UK
Depending on location another income stream for independents is in the hire business ..I wouldn't know the exact figures ( and certainly wouldn't ask ) but my mate & local LBS owner who is in a prime location to do this must have at least 70% plus turnover from "tourists" hiring bikes ..with the majority hiring ebikes ..( when lockdown restrictions aren't in place )
After a certain number of "user hours" he will sell each bike for a price he determines as being fair ..
Its a great business model which works for him and folks who want a decent bike at a lower price ..
He should move out to Tenerife and live the dream.
 

Rahr85

E*POWAH Master
Sep 6, 2020
495
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nottingham
However I also remember the great rollerblade boom and bust - in the mid 90’s rollerblading was flying high, it was in the x games, all the kids wanted them, and skateparks whew full of of rollerbladers, bit like scooters now - a lot of shops went all in and invested in big ranges and stock of rollerblades, a much more expensive item than a skateboard deck in terms of upfront costs - the market then crashed and rollerblading was no longer cool, and a lot of shops got burnt by this as skateboarding was still in the doldrums.

1613064539353.png


those were the days.. ? i do still have a pair of rollerblades stashed away that i just can't face getting rid of.
 

billwarwick

E*POWAH Elite
Oct 1, 2018
664
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warwick
I have been out of retail for a couple of years. But, manufacturers / suppliers conspiring to set and fix retail prices was certainly illegal in the UK. And as far as I know nothing has changed. A retailer in the UK is free to set whatever price they see fit.

However, a supplier refusing to supply a retailer... has definitely been something that I am aware of happening. Make of that what you will.
Out of retail for a couple of years? What are you doing with yourself these days then??
 

Rahr85

E*POWAH Master
Sep 6, 2020
495
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nottingham
K2 fatty pros. Just dug out what I have. Dog got at the right boot which made me sad but doesn't stop them being used.

IMG_20210211_174152.jpg
 

Forever Wild

Active member
May 21, 2020
251
445
Arizona
I have been out of retail for a couple of years. But, manufacturers / suppliers conspiring to set and fix retail prices was certainly illegal in the UK. And as far as I know nothing has changed. A retailer in the UK is free to set whatever price they see fit.

However, a supplier refusing to supply a retailer... has definitely been something that I am aware of happening. Make of that what you will.
I bought an iPhone and Apple Watch in tokyo, Japan. I was surprised it was the exact same price in Arizona. Probably not price fixing..... just a coincidence. Maybe the same Apple Watch and iPhone is cheaper in London.
 

R120

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Apr 13, 2018
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Surrey
I still have a couple of pairs of the original Salomon Aggressive skates, cant remeber what they where called, in a bag somewhere in my parents attic.
 

Drsooty

Member
Jul 10, 2020
47
19
Lancashire
Think that’s why they call it ‘recommended’ retail price?

But they can chose what £ they sell to their suppliers for.... thus dictating the the price, as the shops need to earn a certain % which the manufacturers know is about RRP?! Not rocket science is it....

Great post Al. Very interesting post.

I think if anyone who buys something then moans about the price shouldn’t have bought it in the first place.

Pays your money. Enjoy your bike! ??
In Europe you cannot influence the selling price due to strictly enforced competition laws. You can have an RRP but beyond that it is all upto the reseller, for any product. Any attempt to coerce reselers is considered anti competitive and is heavily punished and illegal.

Bike prices definitely going up in the UK. Perfect storm of increased lockdown demand and brexit increasing import/part costs.
 

Jimbo Vills

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May 15, 2020
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Kent
In Europe you cannot influence the selling price due to strictly enforced competition laws. You can have an RRP but beyond that it is all upto the reseller, for any product. Any attempt to coerce reselers is considered anti competitive and is heavily punished and illegal.

Bike prices definitely going up in the UK. Perfect storm of increased lockdown demand and brexit increasing import/part costs.

I understand all of that. However the commercial world in the real world is somewhat different. Hence the fines...

Many many many more I’m sure don’t get caught.

But that wasn’t my point. My point was by selling at X. They know the retailers need Y. So the prices the bikes are sold at are going to be fairly consistent ??
 

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