Post Brexit Import/Export awareness

[Mteam]

I think its 14% import duty on full bikes that are classed as not originating in the EU - so I guess Yt/commencal etc have >55% of the bikes value in parts supplied from outside the EU (rules of origin and all that).

YT have a shop down in surrey - so I wonder if they could ship the components of a bike and only get charged 4% (I think, might vary depending on the part in question) duty, then assemble the bikes in their shop, and then post them out to customers from there.

I guess if they can do this then they will do once the dust has settled.

 

[mark.ai]

I think its 14% import duty on full bikes that are classed as not originating in the EU - so I guess Yt/commencal etc have >55% of the bikes value in parts supplied from outside the EU (rules of origin and all that).

YT have a shop down in surrey - so I wonder if they could ship the components of a bike and only get charged 4% (I think, might vary depending on the part in question) duty, then assemble the bikes in their shop, and then post them out to customers from there.

I guess if they can do this then they will do once the dust has settled.

So are they currently paying duty on the individual parts to import to the EU, then assembling in the EU, and then have to pay import on the full bike to import to the UK?

So in effect you are paying double import duty on the parts from outside the EU, as well as duty on the parts from inside the EU (which you wouldn't otherwise have had to pay?!)

Seems crazy ...!

 

[Mteam]

or they could change the spec of the bikes to try and get >55% of its value as coming from EU countries then import into the UK at 0% duty.

On the singletrackworld forum there was a post from the guys at Bird bikes and they seem to think that they can achieve this (>55% value of the complete bike coming from uk or EU sources) in order to export into the EU at 0% duty, so I guess YT should be able to do the same .

Might take a while to reconfigure specs and get supply lines sorted out etc - or maybe its not worth their while, or it;ll make the whole bike more expensive anyway?

ohlins fork & shock
dt swiss wheels
hope finishing bits
renthal bars
magura or hope brakes
etc etc

I quite like the sound of that spec.....

 

[R120]

Does anyone know how warranties are affected by Brexit, i.e if you buy a bike in Europe and bring it back here - it would seem to me that we might well see a Grey Market emerging, a bit like there was for motorbikes in the 90's - I spend at least a month of the year out in France usually, so would seem to make sense to look at picking up a bike when there.

 

[MrSimmo]

Guys welcome your advice here - will there be duty to pay if we buy parts from bike-discount or other in Germany?

I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of Magura brakes plus accessories from germany but need to know if I'm going to get hit with another cost at some point during import. Total cost from the seller is around £300.

If I buy them from Merlin or CRC etc in the UK, (a) they're pretty much always out of stock and (b) the prices are substantially more than EU prices.


Cheers

 

[Doomanic]

If they are of non-EU origin there appears to be 4.7% duty.

At £300 the seller should sell to you free of local VAT. On import to the UK you will have to pay duty, a clearance fee and VAT. VAT is levied on the total cost inc shipping, not the cost of the goods alone.
EDIT: Magura produce the bike components in Germany so there shouldn't be any duty.

 

[MrSimmo]

If they are of non-EU origin there appears to be 4.7% duty.

At £300 the seller should sell to you free of local VAT. On import to the UK you will have to pay duty, a clearance fee and VAT. VAT is levied on the total cost inc shipping, not the cost of the goods alone.
EDIT: Magura produce the bike components in Germany so there shouldn't be any duty.

Thanks,

Ok so sounds like the net price would add around £70 (vat and clearance fee). Sound about right?

Its £75 difference between bike-discount and Merlin so may be a no brainer to use the UK shop as import benefits would be eroded.

 

[Doomanic]

If the £300 is excluding local VAT but including shipping you'd pay 20% VAT on that, plus the clearance fee (which is also subject to VAT). I have no idea what the clearance fee is likely to be; I've had fees ranging from £8 to £25 but it's been a while since I've imported anything other than from the EU.

 

[MrSimmo]

If the £300 is excluding local VAT but including shipping you'd pay 20% VAT on that, plus the clearance fee (which is also subject to VAT). I have no idea what the clearance fee is likely to be; I've had fees ranging from £8 to £25 but it's been a while since I've imported anything other than from the EU.

Cheers, appreciate the info ?

 

[Mikerb]

Rules of origin ( ROI) are standard provisions of free trade agreements and discussions of the implications in any UK/EU trade deal have been discussed extensively for at least 3 years; so it is surprising to find claims of surprise from some companies. What was not clear in advance of any agreement with the EU was what the parties would agree with respect to "Cumulation". ( Cumulation concerns the combined origins of any product).
Whilst ROI was agreed at a fairly lax 53% I believe the only agreement on cumulation was bilateral..........essentially each party accepts ROI for import of the other party's goods on proof of 53% of the product originating from that party. I am not clear whether "diagonal cumulation" was agreed. That being goods comprising at least 53% originating from a combination of both parties ( UK and EU).
The UK request in the negotiations was for extended cumulation......that is a combination of origin from any country with an existing FTA with both the UK and EU ( for example Japan). Extended cumulation has been part of all of the UK negotiations for FTAs with other countries and has been agreed in full or in part in most of those agreements. It was rejected by the EU however except for the automotive industry.
As you can see, in a world with no trade tariffs, ROI would no longer be relevant.

Maybe someone with more involvement in these affairs than me these days can find out whether the EU/UK FTA has agreed that product with greater than 53% origin from UK and EU combined is part of the cumulation agreement. If it is then it may suggest a way forward for both UK and EU producers to avoid ROI tariffs.

 

[#lazy]

As predicted fishermen have been done up like a kipper , as moggy said “ happier fish “ only cos they’re alive longer !

 

[Jackware]

from inews.co.uk yesterday;

Fears over food shortages on supermarket shelves are growing as figures show French and German delivery companies are avoiding post-Brexit red tape at UK ports in record numbers.

Data from logistics software company Transporean show the number of haulage companies from Germany that are rejecting delivery contracts to the UK have more than doubled since the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December. French trucking firms are rejecting three times as many UK deliveries.

Digital modelling firm Simul8, which has been evaluating additional burden Brexit red-tape will bring at UK ports, said fresh food was already going to waste as a result of delays.

Frances Sneddon, chief technical officer at Simul8, said: “Unfortunately, we’re already beginning to see the cost of perishable items being left to waste due to the disruptions at ports and extended queue times for freight vehicles. Fruit, vegetables, seafood and meat are affected in the food industry, while the shelf life of medical supplies won’t allow for the extended waiting times that our model has predicted either.”

Ms Sneddon also pointed to issues being faced by manufacturers, which could also suffer supply shortages due to a lack of deliveries from the European Union into the UK.

 

[yorkshire89]

I've just had UPS try and deliver a couple of XT mechs I ordered from Germany on 29.12.20.
They've asked for £51.51 in cash (that I didn't have on me, they don't have a card reader), so have gone back and will re-attempt tomorrow...

Purchase was £183.98 (including 20%VAT paid at the time).

Sound excessive?
I didn't get a breakdown of costs but looks like I could be paying VAT twice? Plus any import duties / UPS handling costs.

Am I supposed to just pay this and try claim back any VAT I've overpaid (if any)?

 

[MrSimmo]

I've just had UPS try and deliver a couple of XT mechs I ordered from Germany on 29.12.20.
They've asked for £51.51 in cash (that I didn't have on me, they don't have a card reader), so have gone back and will re-attempt tomorrow...

Purchase was £183.98 (including 20%VAT paid at the time).

Sound excessive?
I didn't get a breakdown of costs but looks like I could be paying VAT twice? Plus any import duties / UPS handling costs.

Am I supposed to just pay this and try claim back any VAT I've overpaid (if any)?

Sounds high to me although Im no expert.

I looked at buying from bike-discount.de a couple of weeks ago but after advice here and also working out the maths, I figured I'd need to:
- Add 20% vat
- Add shipping costs from bike-discount
- Add clearance fees
- Add "customs service charges" which I'd never heard about before but apparently is a thing now which isn't clearance fees
- Add delays
- Avoid ham sandwiches


You should be provided with a breakdown of fee's before you pay, although you're in a difficult position as they wont give you the goods until you pay.

This may be useful in terms of claiming things back:

www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

 

[Jackware]

20% VAT & 4% third country duty & UPS handling charge?

 

[Jackware]

From the Guardian today;

For orders above £135 it is more complicated as they also attract import duty, which can range from 0% to 25% of the item’s value depending on what it is, what material it is made from and its declared value. There are thousands of different rates of duty and the system is difficult to navigate. Clothes typically attract a 12% customs duty, but it’s hard to generalise.

VAT is then added to the total – at the prevailing UK rate, which for most adult items is 20%. The couriers also add their admin charge of between £8 (Royal Mail) and £11.50 (UPS), or 2.5% of the amount paid to clear customs, with a minimum charge of £11 (DHL).

 

[Mikerb]

Not sure that is right! My understanding is that goods below £135 should have VAT charged at the point of sale ( requires the trader to register with HMRC). Above £135 no VAT is charged at point of sale but is charged ( at UK appropriate VAT rate) on import. Whether or not import duty ( trade tariff) applies is no different. The reason for the difference is to avoid VAT admin at the border for small consignments.
If the goods originate ( at least 53% by value) in the EU and they are exported to the UK, there is no trade tariff/import duty in line with the agreed free trade deal. If the goods do not originate in the EU ( ie less than 53% by value) then WTO trade tariffs apply. That is the standard "rules of origin" measure used in most trade deals albeit with a negotiated threshold.
For imports from outside the EU there is no change except where the UK has agreed a trade deal with that country. ( rules of origin still apply unless that trade deal includes something better than bilateral cumulation....such as extended cumulation...something the UK has sought to include in its FTAs but which the EU refuses). An extended cumulation in effect gets rid of the rules of origin ( ROI). ROI make absolutely no sense if your general approach to trade ( e.g. the UK) is mutual tariff free agreements with multiple partners.
Where no trade agreements are in place WTO tariffs apply. Nothing has changed there.

 

[Jackware]

Not sure that is right! My understanding is that goods below £135 should have VAT charged at the point of sale ( requires the trader to register with HMRC). Above £135 no VAT is charged at point of sale but is charged ( at UK appropriate VAT rate) on import. Whether or not import duty ( trade tariff) applies is no different. The reason for the difference is to avoid VAT admin at the border for small consignments.
If the goods originate ( at least 53% by value) in the EU and they are exported to the UK, there is no trade tariff/import duty in line with the agreed free trade deal. If the goods do not originate in the EU ( ie less than 53% by value) then WTO trade tariffs apply. That is the standard "rules of origin" measure used in most trade deals albeit with a negotiated threshold.
For imports from outside the EU there is no change except where the UK has agreed a trade deal with that country. ( rules of origin still apply unless that trade deal includes something better than bilateral cumulation....such as extended cumulation...something the UK has sought to include in its FTAs but which the EU refuses). An extended cumulation in effect gets rid of the rules of origin ( ROI). ROI make absolutely no sense if your general approach to trade ( e.g. the UK) is mutual tariff free agreements with multiple partners.
Where no trade agreements are in place WTO tariffs apply. Nothing has changed there.

Agreed, the article just is a shortened version, it's not explicitly explained that the vat is dealt with by the courier if over £135 as well as any other charges.

The downside is that a lot of the main European sources that we've used in the past are not currently shipping items if under the £135 threshold due to the extra work they'll have dealing with the vat. Hopefully this will change in the future.

 

[Mikerb]

yep....for them its a business choice , if the UK trade was not much of a percentage of their business. Meanwhile good news for UK retail outlets.

 

[Zimmerframe]

This is a two way street ... or two way speed hump depending how you look at it :

Brexit: Retailers warn they could burn goods stuck in EU

UK retailers may abandon goods EU customers want to return because it is cheaper than bringing them home.

www.bbc.com

It's all well and good for @Mikerb to keep saying it's businesses which are unprepared, being petty or making a "business choice". But the reality is that the UK govt wasn't prepared as everything was left to the last minute and procedures aren't in place and information wasn't put in place for businesses to make decisions in advance not to mention the huge cockups processing anything and the massive backlogs everywhere due to ... good government preparation .....

You can try and put a smiley face on this all you like and say it's good for UK business and good for the UK economy because the UK govt. will collect more VAT and other fees - but it's the UK population who are paying for this, it's not magically and cleverly being re-directed from elsewhere.

It makes it harder for people and businesses to import into the UK and harder for people and businesses to import from the UK, undoing all the years of hard work put in by forward thinking individuals who created the common market for the good of the people in the first place, all undone by a few tyranical selfish small minded twits who just wanted to be bigger fish in a smaller pond. Sorry, its just such a waste.

Still, as you say, it's done now so get on with it. Embrace it .. Buy from China, it will be more expensive than before, but is now proportionally cheaper than buying from your neighbours.

I've broken my own rules and need my post modding

 

[MrSimmo]

This is a two way street ... or two way speed hump depending how you look at it :

Brexit: Retailers warn they could burn goods stuck in EU

UK retailers may abandon goods EU customers want to return because it is cheaper than bringing them home.

www.bbc.com

It's all well and good for @Mikerb to keep saying it's businesses which are unprepared, being petty or making a "business choice". But the reality is that the UK govt wasn't prepared as everything was left to the last minute and procedures aren't in place and information wasn't put in place for businesses to make decisions in advance not to mention the huge cockups processing anything and the massive backlogs everywhere due to ... good government preparation .....

You can try and put a smiley face on this all you like and say it's good for UK business and good for the UK economy because the UK govt. will collect more VAT and other fees - but it's the UK population who are paying for this, it's not magically and cleverly being re-directed from elsewhere.

It makes it harder for people and businesses to import into the UK and harder for people and businesses to import from the UK, undoing all the years of hard work put in by forward thinking individuals who created the common market for the good of the people in the first place, all undone by a few tyranical selfish small minded twits who just wanted to be bigger fish in a smaller pond. Sorry, its just such a waste.

Still, as you say, it's done now so get on with it. Embrace it .. Buy from China, it will be more expensive than before, but is now proportionally cheaper than buying from your neighbours.

I've broken my own rules and need my post modding

Completely agree.

Ref BBC article: I'm hoping we'll find loads of DT Swiss wheelsets and Brose motors lying around in Calais, bagsy the first set of XT Brake levers anyone finds!

On the flip side, maybe we'll be in the position I used to find myself someone else when last in Canada abroad - "Oh its fine I don't need to pay local sales tax as I'm here on a work visa, here's my UK passport; dont worry I'll pay the appropriate tax at Border on the way home, now where did that box signifying the product was recently purchased disappear to?!"

 

[cozzy]

Ok crap i think im about to be bummed by this as i wasn't paying enough attention. Ordered about £195 worth of stuff from bike-discount and only just realised thats an ex vat price for the uk, so expect a battering when they arrive, which will put the items at about the same as the uk price is.
But I will know for sure when they arrive next week.

 

[MrSimmo]

Ok crap i think im about to be bummed by this as i wasn't paying enough attention. Ordered about £195 worth of stuff from bike-discount and only just realised thats an ex vat price for the uk, so expect a battering when they arrive, which will put the items at about the same as the uk price is.
But I will know for sure when they arrive next week.

Get the credit card out and bend over, welcome to Brexit ?

I was so close to hitting checkout on bike-discount; glad I didn't, as I need to make sure I've got enough lube left over for when the government pumps income tax to restock the Westminster Wine Cellar pay back covid debt.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

As a consumer shopping for most things right now is an absolute shit show. Feck all transparency around what you’re actually going to have to pay, whom you’ll need to pay and when....

 

[RustyMTB]

Just for the record, shipping costs are not higher than they were before 01/01/21. You will be charged VAT, customs duties & a variable fees from one carrier to the next for the handling of those charges. The trucks & vans are there just as they were before the new year, what's changed is the UK has stepped outside of the single market & customs union, thereby attracting costs despite what the Prime Minister may have sought to portray publicly.

More worrying in the medium term is a steep increase in European carriers declining UK inbound freight. European logistics is circular. Vehicles bringing imports also take exports. If that system goes out of balance to a significant degree, the implications are higher freight costs, extended lead times & lower throughput,

Good luck with being a boutiquey bike brand competing with Unilever for trailer space. My advice, as a professional freight broker is make sure you have a couple of spare mech hangers in the tool box.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I usually stay away from the Brexit talk as there are many differing (valid) opinions on it and personally I think that sometimes its best avoided.

But in the case of Brexit, right now, I fail to see a single thing, at least in the short term that is of a single benefit to anybody what so ever. The single market, for example, to me was a huge benefit.

Can anyone educate me in what it is that will be of benefit in 3 years, 5 years etc ? This is not a facetious question. I'm genuinely interested in finding the positives.

 

[Mikerb]

This is a two way street ... or two way speed hump depending how you look at it :

Brexit: Retailers warn they could burn goods stuck in EU

UK retailers may abandon goods EU customers want to return because it is cheaper than bringing them home.

www.bbc.com

It's all well and good for @Mikerb to keep saying it's businesses which are unprepared, being petty or making a "business choice". But the reality is that the UK govt wasn't prepared as everything was left to the last minute and procedures aren't in place and information wasn't put in place for businesses to make decisions in advance not to mention the huge cockups processing anything and the massive backlogs everywhere due to ... good government preparation .....

You can try and put a smiley face on this all you like and say it's good for UK business and good for the UK economy because the UK govt. will collect more VAT and other fees - but it's the UK population who are paying for this, it's not magically and cleverly being re-directed from elsewhere.

It makes it harder for people and businesses to import into the UK and harder for people and businesses to import from the UK, undoing all the years of hard work put in by forward thinking individuals who created the common market for the good of the people in the first place, all undone by a few tyranical selfish small minded twits who just wanted to be bigger fish in a smaller pond. Sorry, its just such a waste.

Still, as you say, it's done now so get on with it. Embrace it .. Buy from China, it will be more expensive than before, but is now proportionally cheaper than buying from your neighbours.

I've broken my own rules and need my post modding

If you quote the remoaner BBC you lose all credibility.....You will note for balance the absence of any news of the £m of trade being done daily with the EU or the 60 plus deals done by the UK with other markets in the space of 12 months or the impending deal with the RCEP ( 13% of global GDP), or the absence of £bs annually to the EU for the privelege of being an EU member etc etc. We are in the first few weeks of a significant change and inevitably still dealing with some issues resulting from a prolonged and tortuous 5 year attempt to get a sensible trading agreement with the EU. My prediction is the continuing wrangling will ultimately result in a very much smaller proportion of both import and export activity with the EU......if not a cancellation of the deal completely.

 

[#lazy]

I think all brexit voters should pay a annual fee to cover all these extra fees ! In five years time nobody will be admitting they voted leave , it’s shocking how royally stuffed we’ve been by these useless bxrstxrds !

 

[Doomanic]

the 60 plus deals done by the UK with other markets in the space of 12

The vast majority of which simply mirror the existing deals in place with the EU.

 

[Doomanic]

Can anyone educate me in what it is that will be of benefit in 3 years, 5 years etc ? This is not a facetious question. I'm genuinely interested in finding the positives.

Good luck getting an answer to that; there's been a thread running on STW for a year and no one has managed to come with anything on there.