Post Brexit Import/Export awareness

[R120]

I can remember a time before we joined the Common Market. Getting stuff across the border was not straight forward even then. To get machinery into Italy, the driver had to take several pairs of brand new Levis as gifts to border control. No gift, no entry. It didn't matter how perfectly the documents were completed. I am not saying that the current problems will go away if bribery started up again (nor am I condoning it). But the problems may be eased a lot if border control stopped trying to teach us a lesson for daring to leave the EU. The example that you give above (which is astonishing, but that I believe) is a perfect nonsense that would be solved rapidly with good will and common sense. We just need some to break some out from whatever box folk are keeping them in.

I have not seen any stories anywhere of this happening to vehicle shipments coming from the EU into the UK. I believe that this is because the UK unilaterally decided to go easy for six months. If we can do it without our country falling apart, why can't there be some reciprocity?

There are reports of Dutch customs guys confiscating the sandwiches that UK drivers were carrying for their lunch. Apparently it is illegal to import certain foodstuffs into the EU. (Not an import, just lunch!) They weren't saying it was illegal when the UK were air dropping thousands of tons of food supplies into Holland after WW2 to stop the population from starving. Give some people a uniform and a clipboard and they go power mad!

The common sense was required when negotiating the deal, what we are dealing with is the application of the rules, which just dont work.

The current situation has nothing to do with the concept of Brexit as such, but an outstandingly incompetent Brexit deal - surely you can see as a Brexit supporter, that there's a big difference between the concept of a beneficial Brexit, and the reality of a badly executed one.

In the construction industry I know plenty of people who voted for Brexit mainly driven by the taking back sovereignty idea - one in particular runs one of the biggest flooring suppliers in the UK, and I remember the day after the vote seeing him, he was so happy, and had broken out his Sunday best to go to work that day - he voted because he felt is was a chance to show pride in his country - now he is struggling to make his business run, get supplies, fulfil orders, and get any sort of certainty out of his supply chain, and wishes the vote had never been held.

 

[#lazy]

While in the eu we (Uk) helped make the rules for 3rd country import/exports and now we’ve left the eu we can’t moan about excepting the rules . Before we joined in the 70’s the Uk only did a fraction of trade with the eu and it was a nightmare then with paperwork from what I’ve heard . Prices on a lot of things will go up , we’ve just got to except it . This brexit dream might happen eventually but alot of people and businesses will suffer and I can’t see what was do bad with the “ own currency and out of schengen zone “ deal we had !

 

[R120]

Yes the big difference between now and then (and the fact they had to use typewriters to do the paperwork!) is that the sheer volume of trans continent trade has increased exponentially.

 

[#lazy]

The common sense was required when negotiating the deal, what we are dealing with is the application of the rules, which just dont work.

The current situation has nothing to do with the concept of Brexit as such, but an outstandingly incompetent Brexit deal - surely you can see as a Brexit supporter, that there's a big difference between the concept of a beneficial Brexit, and the reality of a badly executed one.

In the construction industry I know plenty of people who voted for Brexit mainly driven by the taking back sovereignty idea - one in particular runs one of the biggest flooring suppliers in the UK, and I remember the day after the vote seeing him, he was so happy, and had broken out his Sunday best to go to work that day - he voted because he felt is was a chance to show pride in his country - now he is struggling to make his business run, get supplies, fulfil orders, and get any sort of certainty out of his supply chain, and wishes the vote had never been held.

I wonder if the flooring he supply’s is from Poland and packaged in China like a lot of wood flooring is ?

 

[steve_sordy]

It will settle down, it's only been a few weeks. You can't expect 40 years of "ever closer union" to be overturned as if by magic. It is not helped by the fact that despite the claims of undying and eternal friendship from both sides, it was a contested and hostile divorce with one side determined that the other would pay (as an example to the rest). That lack of amity will take time to ebb, if it ever does. In the meantime, I'm just glad that I no longer have to work for a living and have to deal with it. It must be so frustrating, irritating, agonising, counter productive and just plain exhausting for all those involved. They have my sympathy and I hope they can get through it. Once the honeymoon period has passed in the UK, it will be the same for those exporting from the EU to the UK. Only then will common sense prevail.

When I used to work for a living, I used to manage some big and complex projects, but nothing like this. No matter how well planned and how prepared I thought we were, there were always problems - always. But they got fixed and order was restored. Some time later the pain faded.

 

[R120]

A lot of engineered wood flooring comes from Poland and Eastern Europe and is rebranded by the various entities over here, but a lot of the high end flooring comes from Germany, France, Italy etc - a lot of the UK manufacturers are reliant on timber coming in from Europe.

Like any industry a lot of stuff comes out of the same factory and is branded up differently by the importers.

But aside from that there are all the ancillaries, such as adhesive etc etc.

At my end of the industry, which is the "super prime" market, the bigger problem is that we get a lot of items from boutique suppliers all over Europe, e.g hand blown glass lights from Venice, and the suppliers are not big entities and don't want to deal with the extra hassle, so we are left with issues on a few jobs where everyone is a bit in the dark about completion of orders. Very much a first world problem, but the problem is their isn't anyone in the UK who can produce the same thing - at my end of the market the price isn't really the issue, its the ability to supply.

We have two jobs where clients (both who work at the very top of the banking/hedge fund industries) who set up companies based in France towards the back end of last year to get around these issues, and handle procurement of all products from mainland Europe for their projects - at the time we thought it was overkill, but in hindsight it seem like the billionaire network had a pretty good inkling of what was going to go down.

 

[Doomanic]

For example an MRN from Italy can only have 99 line, so a truck with a thousand packages on it will need 10 MRN’s and each one needs a release in NCTS before you can unload it, the dreaded permission to proceed, none of this was even a thing before Brexit.

But the problems may be eased a lot if border control stopped trying to teach us a lesson for daring to leave the EU.

If you'd bothered to read the while post rather than try to score a Brexy Bonus you would have noticed that Demo is referring to an inbound shipment so the issues are with UK customs, not EU customs. The only lesson that needs to be learnt here is that we as a country are woefully underprepared for what a bunch of disaster capitalists have foisted upon us.

 

[Jackware]

If you'd bothered to read the while post rather than try to score a Brexy Bonus you would have noticed that Demo is referring to an inbound shipment so the issues are with UK customs, not EU customs. The only lesson that needs to be learnt here is that we as a country are woefully underprepared for what a bunch of disaster capitalists have foisted upon us.

And to stop reading the Daily Mail

 

[KeithR]

There are reports of Dutch customs guys confiscating the sandwiches that UK drivers were carrying for their lunch. Apparently it is illegal to import certain foodstuffs into the EU. (Not an import, just lunch!) They weren't saying it was illegal when the UK were air dropping thousands of tons of food supplies into Holland after WW2 to stop the population from starving. Give some people a uniform and a clipboard and they go power mad!

Grow up, Steve. Comparing Brexit to WWII is an arsehole trick beloved of truth-allergic Daily Mail bigots, and I figured you were better than that - your self-righteous, personally-affronted tone doesn't sit well at all with the facts of the matter.

As to "apparently it is illegal..." - it has always been illegal for Third Countries (like the UK, now) to import POAO (Products Of Animal Origin) into the EU uncertificated: and it's the UK's responsibility to know that.

And we did know - Gov.UK covers it succinctly:

You cannot bring POAO (products of an animal origin) such as those containing meat or dairy (e.g. a ham and cheese sandwich) into the EU.

The fact that a UK trucker was caught out by it, doesn't make the EU responsible.

Much less a petty point-scorer - that territory is uniquely the province of wilfully ignorant Brexit supporters, in my experience.

 

[Mikerb]

I can remember a time before we joined the Common Market. Getting stuff across the border was not straight forward even then. To get machinery into Italy, the driver had to take several pairs of brand new Levis as gifts to border control. No gift, no entry. It didn't matter how perfectly the documents were completed. I am not saying that the current problems will go away if bribery started up again (nor am I condoning it). But the problems may be eased a lot if border control stopped trying to teach us a lesson for daring to leave the EU. The example that you give above (which is astonishing, but that I believe) is a perfect nonsense that would be solved rapidly with good will and common sense. We just need some to break some out from whatever box folk are keeping them in.

I have not seen any stories anywhere of this happening to vehicle shipments coming from the EU into the UK. I believe that this is because the UK unilaterally decided to go easy for six months. If we can do it without our country falling apart, why can't there be some reciprocity?

There are reports of Dutch customs guys confiscating the sandwiches that UK drivers were carrying for their lunch. Apparently it is illegal to import certain foodstuffs into the EU. (Not an import, just lunch!) They weren't saying it was illegal when the UK were air dropping thousands of tons of food supplies into Holland after WW2 to stop the population from starving. Give some people a uniform and a clipboard and they go power mad!

Yes I remember times before we joined The Common Market , something very different to what the EU is now.........and no one in the UK had a vote on any of the subsequent treaties that converted the Common Market into the monstrosity it is now. The UK then traded extensively with Commonweath countries.
You are wasting your of breath here mate!!
Remoaners will always seek the negatives. Over 70% of UK GDP comprises services and in terms of percentage of export of goods to the EU it is only 43% of the total goods exported ( and by value a pretty small % of GDP)...and dropping each year. I can well see that % dropping a great deal faster over the next few years as other trade deals with areas of the world with actual economic growth come on stream. Given the fact that the EU economies are far more reliant on Agriculture and manufacturing , and the fact they export far more to the UK than we export to it, any congestion, delay, pettiness at the customs borders will have a far greater effect on their already ailing economies than the UK, so a great more in their interests to fix the problems.
Single Markets are of course beneficial to both parties but the generally accepted terms of a "single market" do not incur the same same limits on Sovereignty as the EU Single Market, which goes beyond goods and services to include free movement of labour and capital, and full alignment with EU regulations. Those terms in turn, regulated by the ECJ as the final arbiter. It is in effect political alignment masquerading as a Single Market. It also prevents the UK agreeing any other FTAs. It is therefore not tenable to the UK and it appears likely to lead to other member states re-appraising their position.
More to the point, none of these rantings have any real significance to this forum which has members from all over the world and is supposed to be about E mountain bikes.

 

[steve_sordy]

If you'd bothered to read the while post rather than try to score a Brexy Bonus you would have noticed that Demo is referring to an inbound shipment so the issues are with UK customs, not EU customs. The only lesson that needs to be learnt here is that we as a country are woefully underprepared for what a bunch of disaster capitalists have foisted upon us.

Fair enough, guilty of misreading (I've done it before and no doubt will do it again).

 

[RustyMTB]

With respect Mike, that is the hackneyed greatest hits of Leave.Eu and a flowering pile of nonsense.

1) There is no agreement on services, so seeking to denigrate movement of goods isn't the slam dunk you think it is.

2) 43% of all exports go to our neighbours. The remaining 57% comprises ALL exports to the RoW and not one country takes more than 4% of our exports. Trade decays with distance, FTA's agreed to date are rollovers of EU fta's. Peru really aren't riding to the rescue with Yak milk & sovereignty flavoured wine.

3) Governments are elected to take decisions on our behalf. Going into two world wars was not subject to referenda, the notion of being robbed because Maastrcht wasn't is bizarre.

4) Enforcing rules is not only not petty, it is literally the inevitable outcome leave voters forced on the other half of the country

5) They don't need us more than we need them, or they wouldn't be enforcing the border checks you say are 'petty' now, would they?

6) Name one other member state intent on leaving the union.

7) This is a mountain bike forum, it would be cool if you in particular, left it at that.

8) Every time you type out the word 'Remoaners' it really marks you out as a bit of an arse.

 

[steve_sordy]

I have decided to let the passage of time settle this. I can see that some/many people are deeply upset by the Brexit outcome. My son-in-law for example becomes a foaming foul-mouthed ranter when the slightest disagreement with his opinion on Brexit is mentioned in front of him. He's a really nice guy and rational in all other respects. So the whole family don't mention Brexit at all, for or against. I should have learned from that.

I see no benefit in provoking anyone by even mentioning the topic in the future. Feel free to remind me of this if I renege.

 

[Doomanic]

Fair enough, guilty of misreading (I've done it before and no doubt will do it again).

Thanks Steve, your reply makes me glad I deleted the last sentence from my post before posting it...

 

[Mikerb]

With respect Mike, that is the hackneyed greatest hits of Leave.Eu and a flowering pile of nonsense.

1) There is no agreement on services, so seeking to denigrate movement of goods isn't the slam dunk you think it is.

2) 43% of all exports go to our neighbours. The remaining 57% comprises ALL exports to the RoW and not one country takes more than 4% of our exports. Trade decays with distance, FTA's agreed to date are rollovers of EU fta's. Peru really aren't riding to the rescue with Yak milk & sovereignty flavoured wine.

3) Governments are elected to take decisions on our behalf. Going into two world wars was not subject to referenda, the notion of being robbed because Maastrcht wasn't is bizarre.

4) Enforcing rules is not only not petty, it is literally the inevitable outcome leave voters forced on the other half of the country

5) They don't need us more than we need them, or they wouldn't be enforcing the border checks you say are 'petty' now, would they?

6) Name one other member state intent on leaving the union.

7) This is a mountain bike forum, it would be cool if you in particular, left it at that.

8) Every time you type out the word 'Remoaners' it really marks you out as a bit of an arse.

I have no idea what you are on about most of the time! The problem with "remoaners" and I make no apology for using that term, is an inability or unwillingness to accept there are differences of opinion. That unfortunately is a growing trait in any political debate with one identifiable side of the political divide insisting on the absolute veracity of their worldview whilst any dissent is due obviously due to old age or lack of education, naivety, or any other personal insult that comes to mind. My experience of "Oxford Debate" informs me that when the opposing viewpoint is reduced to personal insult, the debate is all but won!
I have started no threads concerning Brexit or bike/bike component purchase problems, only responding with additional information to try to assist in understanding issues.
Anyway, I am now bored with this topic so will not be revisiting it. ( ps talking a bout bikes....just bought a complete new drivetrain, service kits and tyres........all from UK suppliers, great service/quick delivery)

 

[Doomanic]

The problem with "remoaners" and I make no apology for using that term

OK Boomer...

 

[Jackware]

"The problem with "remoaners" and I make no apology for using that term"

"My experience of "Oxford Debate" informs me that when the opposing viewpoint is reduced to personal insult, the debate is all but won!"

Indeed.

 

[KeithR]

You are wasting your of breath here mate!!
Remoaners will always seek the negatives.

And Kwitters wonder why we think they're thick...

Demonstrable, clearly evidenced facts are just that: that they're negatives too, is only an issue because of the lying dipshits that have inflicted them on the UK in the first place.

 

[KeithR]

no one in the UK had a vote on any of the subsequent treaties that converted the Common Market into the monstrosity it is now.

Another utterly irrelevant Strawman. Those were the rules of the "club" we joined, and we joined willingly, fully aware of the implications of membership.

 

[KeithR]

It will settle down, it's only been a few weeks.

No, it bloody won't, Steve - that's exactly the kind of "Unicorns and Sunlit Uplands" Magical Thinking (and I really want people to read the first two links there - never too late to learn...) that put us in this toilet in the first place.

The reality is that it's going to get much, much worse. At the moment the UK is giving hauliers moving goods into the UK a free pass, with no border checks: from July, the same bureaucratic shitstorm that's happening now with outbound movements, will be visited on everything that's coming in too.

It's going to get exponentially worse - and because the "worse" is directly related to unavoidable (thanks directly to Brexit) border controls and customs checking, there's literally no "it'll get better".

 

[KeithR]

an inability or unwillingness to accept there are differences of opinion.

Oh, the irony... Not exactly given to careful introspection, are you?

And "opinion" doesn't beat facts - no matter how hard you try to pretend they don't exist because they dump all over your deluded, unsupportable anti-EU narrative...

 

[KeithR]

treaties that converted the Common Market into the monstrosity it is now.

Christ, the histrionic hyperbole of Brexiteers - it's like the OTT "death to the west..!" crap that used to come out of Osama Bin Laden and Kim Jong-un...

OK, you reckon you're done on the subject (yeah, right... because moderate Kwitters are A Thing...) so a couple of "easy" questions for you:

1. What - exactly - is "monstrous" about the EU that hurts the UK?
2. Name one thing about EU membership that hurts you.

Note that I have a list as long as my arm of the ways it made your life better...

 

[Waynemarlow]

You guys need to expand your buying horizons a bit. There is the rest of the world to trade with and of late virtually every bike parts purchase I have made seems to be better value by looking at places like Alibaba. com, AliExpress, internet search ( the States is cheap ) or my favourite EBay or Amazon worldwide.

Sure you may not get your favourite EU brand, but I seem to be getting identical Tiawan or Chinese made parts that have odd names but look exactly like the EU stuff. For example I just purchased some gear off EBay and it turned up 11 days later direct from China, no duties, cheaper than both EU and UK online prices by some way. It was under £ 135.00 so I was expecting to have the 20% VAT added, but it seems EBay has sorted that. Almost certainly a Shimano clone and as good a quality. Was it made in the same factory as the Shimano branded item ?

Back in the mid summer I was ordering in stuff for my company from both China and the EU in test preparation for the inevitable "teething" problems we expected and delivery times on average was actually around the same time as that from the EU. My only hesitation is with these Covid times, delivery times are being pushed out from both the EU and China and that has very little to do with Brexit, but more to the total dissarray in the shipping of containers around the world.

But for the moment, those who are willing to think ahead a bit, you can get what you want with minimum disruption. I exclude the 20% added of VAT that should in the past have been paid, as often it was not and hence the price savings over UK stock. Just accept that the VAT actually is now likely being paid to the UK government and your fair contribution tax to pay for the Covid bar bill.

 

[ggx]

You guys need to expand your buying horizons a bit. There is the rest of the world to trade with and of late virtually every bike parts purchase I have made seems to be better value by looking at places like Alibaba. com, AliExpress, internet search ( the States is cheap ) or my favourite EBay or Amazon worldwide.

Sure you may not get your favourite EU brand, but I seem to be getting identical Tiawan or Chinese made parts that have odd names but look exactly like the EU stuff. For example I just purchased some gear off EBay and it turned up 11 days later direct from China, no duties, cheaper than both EU and UK online prices by some way. It was under £ 135.00 so I was expecting to have the 20% VAT added, but it seems EBay has sorted that. Almost certainly a Shimano clone and as good a quality. Was it made in the same factory as the Shimano branded item ?

Back in the mid summer I was ordering in stuff for my company from both China and the EU in test preparation for the inevitable "teething" problems we expected and delivery times on average was actually around the same time as that from the EU. My only hesitation is with these Covid times, delivery times are being pushed out from both the EU and China and that has very little to do with Brexit, but more to the total dissarray in the shipping of containers around the world.

But for the moment, those who are willing to think ahead a bit, you can get what you want with minimum disruption. I exclude the 20% added of VAT that should in the past have been paid, as often it was not and hence the price savings over UK stock. Just accept that the VAT actually is now likely being paid to the UK government and your fair contribution tax to pay for the Covid bar bill.

I can´t have the same confidance on clones, in particular stuff that as safety issues (like glasses , helmets, etc) . They can look the same, but I doubt they are the same. Better safe than sorry.

 

[RustyMTB]

Buy pattern part shite & suck up the tax which I'll pretend is the Covid bill is not particularly inspiring on the Brexit dividend side of the equation.

 

[Pigin]

I do find this all very interesting.

Some people think that by ramming their opinion down your throat and shouting very loudly that they are right. Well one things for certain they are right but only insofar as it suits them. That means I am right about my opinion because it suits me. No matter how loud they shout, once I have made my informed choice I'm sticking to it unless circumstances change whereby, I, and anyone else for that matter, is free to change their mind.

Choose any topic you like, Brexit, Bikes, Religion, Jobs, Marmite, even the type of spread you prefer on which ever type of bread, its your choice. It all works the same.

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that this thread was going to educate me as to some of the current issues. Nope not really its about that old record of "You are wrong and I am right".

Perhaps reading reviews, comments, observations and the news about all things EMTB is where it should stay.

Neither you or I are right, we simply may just have a different agenda. Long live democracy; comrades.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Marmite

Oh god, now you've done it ...

 

[Jackware]

Oh god, now you've done it ...

Please Zim, don't bring religion into it

 

[Waynemarlow]

Oh god, now you've done it ...

There's always Vegemite, but does it pass the safety test

 

[Pigin]

Vegemite

Does anyone know what the import tariff is?