Petition to raise UK ebike limit to match the USA 20mph.

Slowroller

Well-known member
Founding Member
Jan 15, 2018
494
496
Wyoming
Lots of people derestrict in the us because they view 20 mph as too slow, whatever the legal limit is, people will always want more. You all enjoy unlimited access because of the 25kmh cut off, I wouldn’t mess with it. We don’t have the same access and I think the laws are the major reason. If you want a higher cut off, just derestrict and be done with it.
 

markfitton

Member
Jul 6, 2020
70
41
uk
When the government is dealing with all the shit they've got on their plate, and depending on your point of view, are useless and incompetent to boot.
Do you really think this will have any impact?. I doubt there are 100, 000 E bikes in the country.

As far as im concerned, that's the law and I can live with it.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,702
the internet
When the government is dealing with all the shit they've got on their plate, and depending on your point of view, are useless and incompetent to boot.
Do you really think this will have any impact?. I doubt there are 100, 000 E bikes in the country.
Totally agree.
My understanding is those 100000 sigs need to be collected within the following 6months.

@Jamm13dodger
Seems from the decathlon thread you've only had your first Ebike for about a fortnight. is that correct? Don't you think you should have spent a LOT more time researching and coming up with a decent argument for your proposal before deciding to start a government petition and spam forums and social media to sign it?
 

Jamm13dodger

Member
Jul 1, 2020
90
91
Burwell, UK
Totally agree.
My understanding is those 100000 sigs need to be collected within the following 6months.

@Jamm13dodger
Seems from the decathlon thread you've only had your first Ebike for about a fortnight. is that correct? Don't you think you should have spent a LOT more time researching and coming up with a decent argument for your proposal before deciding to start a government petition and spam forums and social media to sign it?

I did my research Gary, i was well aware of the limit. If you consider putting the link here, on the emtb FB page and the stilus page spamming i guess I am guilty. I can live with the limit but I would like it to be higher.
I could just ignore the fact that id like it to be higher and make no attempt to change it whatsoever but I decided to ask for a change. You are right, there are a lot more important things going on in the world but i do believe they will have time to consider it should the unimaginable happen and we get enough signatures. If as you say its never going to happen i guess there should be no concern about me wasting their time.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
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Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,702
the internet
Spamming isn't the issue
I'd personally prefer the limit higher. but also see a lot of vastly less experienced/skilled/safe bicycle riders on our roads, especially in the city who I think 15mph assistance would be more than enough for.
I just don't see that you've put a very well thought out compelling case across in the petition.
ie. What has the US legislation to do with us at all? (did you even realise the US have many restrictions on where bikes and Emtbs can be ridden that we don't)
and where on earth did you get this from?
Its commonly accepted in the cycling community that the current limit reduces the likelihood that people will swap their car for an electric bike
?
or
and that the speed difference being so much lower than a car increases the danger presented to cyclists when sharing the road.
again? where is your actual evidence of this?
and
Additionally, there are a large number of bikes in the UK that have bypassed or do not conform to the current legislation. Increasing it would prevent much faster bicycles from making their way onto the roads and paths.
What? How on earth can you say your proposed assistance increase would prevent "much faster bikes"?

I just think you should have spent a lot more time time actually researching the subject and a lot more time coming up with better reasoning preferably with some actual proof behind your claims and written it more betterly. ;)
As it stands even if it ever does get to parlaiment, some old dude who knows nothing about bikes is going to read out your badly thought out proposition and the rest of the house who live in london and probably see cyclists as a red light jumping nuisance will vote to say... No.
 

Monkey Dog

Active member
Jun 4, 2020
250
166
Derbyshire
Whatever your argument is. I've signed it.
My first ebike was a kit that I fitted to my current bike at the time. It came with a thumb throttle & would do 25mph easily. Having had it, I don't miss it, for me it was just a lazy gimmick.
On ped ass I couldn't pedal fast enough to get above 20mph, but the motor just kept pushing. I have no idea what speed it would stop assisting at.
I have to agree that 16mph on my Zobop is a little slow & 20mph would be better. Of course we all know that 'speed kills' (my arse, it's inappropriate speed that kills).
Having driven hgv's for a number of years in the past, I was restricted to 56mph, they upped it to 60mph a few years back. That extra 4mph made a hell of a difference. I know it's a different scenario, but the principle is the same.
 

Jamm13dodger

Member
Jul 1, 2020
90
91
Burwell, UK
Spamming isn't the issue
I'd personally prefer the limit higher. but also see a lot of vastly less experienced/skilled/safe bicycle riders on our roads, especially in the city who I think 15mph assistance would be more than enough for.
I just don't see that you've put a very well thought out compelling case across in the petition.
ie. What has the US legislation to do with us at all? (did you even realise the US have many restrictions on where bikes and Emtbs can be ridden that we don't)
and where on earth did you get this from?
?
or
again? where is your actual evidence of this?
and
What? How on earth can you say your proposed assistance increase would prevent "much faster bikes"?

I just think you should have spent a lot more time time actually researching the subject and a lot more time coming up with better reasoning preferably with some actual proof behind your claims and written it more betterly. ;)
As it stands even if it ever does get to parlaiment, some old dude who knows nothing about bikes is going to read out your badly thought out proposition and the rest of the house who live in london and probably see cyclists as a red light jumping nuisance will vote to say... No.
I have to say a lot of what you have written makes sense. I like to think i can admit when I make a mistake and despite my good intentions this could have been done better. The space you have to state your case on the petition page is very limited. I had to shave several hundred words out of what i had written and it’s definitely not as clear why i made certain statements as i would have liked. As KeithR said he would reword it, and i would if that were possible, but it seems it cant be edited once its done.

I also cant appear to withdraw it so its now a case of wait and see. You cant put the toothpaste back in the tube once its been squeezed.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,702
the internet
The space you have to state your case on the petition page is very limited. I had to shave several hundred words out of what i had written and it’s definitely not as clear why i made certain statements as i would have liked. As KeithR said he would reword it, and i would if that were possible, but it seems it cant be edited once its done.
Yeah. this is what I was meaning. with such a short number of words it really needed a lot more time, input and experience in drafting to cover the proposal well.

I also cant appear to withdraw it so its now a case of wait and see. You cant put the toothpaste back in the tube once its been squeezed.
Yeah, but you can wash wasted tootpaste down the drain. Which I fear is what will happen in this case even if by some miracle it gets those 100000 squeezes ;)

PM me in January if you're one signature short
 

markfitton

Member
Jul 6, 2020
70
41
uk
I don't agree with this petition it will result in more restrictions for where e-bikes can ride on certain trails, I find my electric mountain bike perfect for what it was designed to do go up and down mountains and rural trails.
Just my thoughts.
Totally agree , leave well alone, the limit on mine is fine for me. If you want more get a trials bike or scrambler.
Hitting a tree on a trail at 15 is going to hurt enough.
 

Binhill1

🍊 Tango Man 🍊
Mar 7, 2019
3,250
5,033
Scotland
Lots of people derestrict in the us because they view 20 mph as too slow, whatever the legal limit is, people will always want more. You all enjoy unlimited access because of the 25kmh cut off, I wouldn’t mess with it. We don’t have the same access and I think the laws are the major reason. If you want a higher cut off, just derestrict and be done with it.
Totally agree a few times on the road etc I would like a bit more but I can live with it . As you say access in my area of Scotland wide open never meet anyone unless you are on the manmade runs. Burma road freewheel down at 50mph if your balls are big enough
 

geehaw

Active member
Nov 17, 2019
107
86
Melbourne Australia
I don't agree with this petition it will result in more restrictions for where e-bikes can ride on certain trails, I find my electric mountain bike perfect for what it was designed to do go up and down mountains and rural trails.
Just my thoughts.
Fully agree. All an increased limit will do is give the environmentalists and non-emtb trail users more ammunition to restrict MTB trail access. If you're on trails where you can do more that 25kph on uphills where assistance is typically required you probably should look for more challenging trails. On flats and downhills you can easily pedal over the the 25kph limit if required so no additional assistance required. It would appear that most individuals requesting higher speeds are using their MTB as a city commuter bike. Perhaps there should be a new classification of ebikes restricted to road use only with laws made specifically for them.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Perhaps there should be a new classification of ebikes restricted to road use only with laws made specifically for them.
There are various classifications ie. mopeds & s-pedelecs that would effectively fit that description. Trails with applicable & variable limits that are clearly defined & signposted would probably be best. The variable limits logically would be based on many individual local factors.

Some disciplines of off-road electro bike riding benefit from higher speeds, like electro freeride, jumps, or cruising in places where there are no people, just cows or sheep or horses or whatever. Of course we're talking about a marginal difference in any case, a few km/h - even fewer mph. I don't get the opposition - except I guess there will always be people who oppose whatever progress is proposed.
 

geehaw

Active member
Nov 17, 2019
107
86
Melbourne Australia
T
There are various classifications ie. mopeds & s-pedelecs that would effectively fit that description. Trails with applicable & variable limits that are clearly defined & signposted would probably be best. The variable limits logically would be based on many individual local factors.

Some disciplines of off-road electro bike riding benefit from higher speeds, like electro freeride, jumps, or cruising in places where there are no people, just cows or sheep or horses or whatever. Of course we're talking about a marginal difference in any case, a few km/h - even fewer mph. I don't get the opposition - except I guess there will always be people who oppose whatever progress is proposed.
It would be hard to define and enforce speed limits on trails. The question is where do you draw the line, general speed limits are a good reference some think they should be higher some lower. Your "marginal difference" represents a 20% increase, not really marginal when you look at it that way. There has to be a balance. My main concern is giving fuel to the anti-emtb guys in saying "see the emtb guys just want more speed" I'm not saying their arguments make sense but they are currently a bigger voice. Losing access to trails would certainly not be progress. If you want to go faster just derestrict the bike.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Your "marginal difference" represents a 20% increase, not really marginal when you look at it that way.
It's marginal whichever way you look at it. Just because the limit is 30 doesn't mean that everybody rides at 30 all places, all times - in most places there would be little to no effect at all. There are many trails around here where there are no people & to be limited to a speed equal to or even lower than I can peddle on a non electro is nonsensical.
 

markfitton

Member
Jul 6, 2020
70
41
uk
Why would any legislature go the bother of setting different speed limits for different areas , or different classes of Ebike. The speed limit comes from what’s allowed on the road, 15 mph has been deemed safe .Emtbs are just caught up in this with everything else.
I also shoot air rifles there, the limit is 12 ftlb. People are always complaining about this as well.

its what it is , and no amount of complaining or petitions will change the law for .00001 Per cent of the population.

Live with it. Don’t rock the boat , you could end up with something much much worse.
 

Old Mike

Member
Sep 3, 2019
58
48
Consett, County Durham
Lots of people derestrict in the us because they view 20 mph as too slow, whatever the legal limit is, people will always want more. You all enjoy unlimited access because of the 25kmh cut off, I wouldn’t mess with it. We don’t have the same access and I think the laws are the major reason. If you want a higher cut off, just derestrict and be done with it.

This is an excellent point that I hadn't thought of.

Well said sir!
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Well if I lived lets say in Wimbledon and worked in Tottenham, I’d be getting myself a 48 km/h s-pedelec. It’d be an arduous undertaking, counterproductive to the primary objective of making London, or any other city, a better place to live. But I’d still do it.

Buying and riding an S-pedelec in the UK

  • First, find yourself a bike. You’ll need to make sure it comes with a Certificate of Conformity, and that it conforms to 168/2013/EU regulations; you’ll need the certificate later.
  • Head off to the DVLA and get yourself some forms. You’ll need a V267 (New vehicle import pack) and a V55/4 (Application for a licence for a new motor vehicle and declaration for registration). They take about a week to arrive.
  • Complete the V267 & V55/4 with the information from the Certificate of Conformity.
  • Send everything with a cheque for £55 and the original Certificate of Conformity off to the DVLA. You’ll need to include a bank statement and/or utility bill, and a copy of your driving license or passport.
  • Wait for your V5C registration document to come back: this takes about two weeks
  • Check your vehicle tax - it’s exempt, so there’s nothing to pay
  • Get a standard vehicle number plate (around £10 online) and fix it to the rear of your bike
  • Arrange some insurance - Bikesure quoted £135 third party only & Quoterack quoted £200 fully comprehensive for this bike
  • Find yourself a kite-marked motorcycle helmet. An open-face moped helmet will cost from about £30 upwards.
 

Janc

Active member
Oct 22, 2019
230
132
Dorset
Given the sheer number of signatures required to even get a consideration for a debate in parliament you'd better hope all the Levo riders sign it...

On a more serious note, petitioning your MP may be more effective, especially at the moment with the new cycling initiatives in place.
Any chance we could have a link to an MP letter to send? I know a some petitions have this. Not sure how its done, but would be very useful.
 

markfitton

Member
Jul 6, 2020
70
41
uk
It’s 100,000 to get a debate, which would get nowhere. 10,000 would get you a response of, piss off, however you say that in politician speak, that takes half a page.

good luck, in getting another 7.5 k
 

Binhill1

🍊 Tango Man 🍊
Mar 7, 2019
3,250
5,033
Scotland
It’s 100,000 to get a debate, which would get nowhere. 10,000 would get you a response of, piss off, however you say that in politician speak, that takes half a page.

good luck, in getting another 7.5 k
Yes I can hear it now ,all stop on Covid and brexit let's get on with the Shite petitions. Join the line
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,702
the internet
Is there a new alternative definition for the word "pragmatic" I don't know about?

checking urban dictionary came up blank. But search for "Boris" and there are plenty new definitions. ?
 

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