Petition for law change

[steve_sordy]

Someone earlier in the thread said the 25kph limit was set because of an existing speed limit on cycleways in France. We have no such limit in the UK and neither would it make any sense....any bike can go faster so how would you enforce the limit. An e bike can go faster but not with motor assist. So I can see no logic in the 25kph limit. The limit should be set taking account of functionality. Personally 25kph is fine for my type of riding but I fully understand the need for a slightly higher limit for those using an e bike on tarmac.

The logic is that we are in the EU and they like to have one rule that fits all. It is also why the limit is expressed in kph. When those that make all the rules get together to agree what should be the limit, you can bet that all the interested parties were all arguing for minimum change for their country. The result is often not the logical or even the correct decision; it might just be the result of a majority vote, but it may be a compromise that everyone can live with. By "everyone" I mean the legislators, not you and me.

My recollection is that the limit was nothing to do with French cycleways, but the existing rules for insurance and licensing on power assisted two-wheelers in much (most?) of the Continent.

 

[HikerDave]

Be careful what you wish; higher speeds might lead to access issues. One argument advanced against eBike access on public land in the US similar to that in the EU is that our cut-off speeds are higher.

This argument isn’t really logical, but laws and regulations in the US are generally based on opinion and public perception and I’m guessing that the same is true over there.

 

[Jdog]

I wholeheartedly agree with limit increase to 20mph for no other reason than to increase my hill climbing times but 25%

 

[Maxb]

The 25kph really is to slow most half fit riders can easily ride faster on the road for me the current speed limit renders Ebikes unless for my 28 mile journey to work as I generally average around the 20mph and I'm no cycling pro .

 

[steve_sordy]

One thing I have learned from this thread is that we really ought to have a country flag under our names (I'm a Brit). Posts refer to "over here", "over there", "us" and "them"; without sometimes going back to the post being referred to it is not obvious what country the poster is from. Knowing this is useful.

 

[Mikerb]

One thing I have learned from this thread is that we really ought to have a country flag under our names (I'm a Brit). Posts refer to "over here", "over there", "us" and "them"; without sometimes going back to the post being referred to it is not obvious what country the poster is from. Knowing this is useful.

Good idea

 

[Welshman]

One thing I have learned from this thread is that we really ought to have a country flag under our names (I'm a Brit). Posts refer to "over here", "over there", "us" and "them"; without sometimes going back to the post being referred to it is not obvious what country the poster is from. Knowing this is useful.

I am most definately from the UK ??

 

[njn]

Here in the colonies, I hit the 20 mph limiter on every ride. Although, assistance is dropped dramatically above 18 mph. If the EU tune is the same with the assistance dropping off the near the limiter, 13.5 mph would be dreadful.

 

[Dax]

I really don't mind the limiter. Even with only 15mph I have to worry about aero on fire road climbs, and the motor is on eco for the descents anyway so it's irrelevant half the time. The only time it would be useful is on road if I was riding in traffic, and that's not why I bought a kenevo

 

[Lewis]

I have been using ebike from 2014 as epilepsy stopped me from driving. Mine has throttle and pedlec control but after i burnt 350w befang motor out more than once as i set it to cut out at 20mph. So i now just use throttle and start pedalling before throttle. I set to cut out at 18-19mph and its been good on road and ride past all the dressed up racers pedalling like mad.....love it

 

[stiv674]

I think bikes with throttles should be capped at the current speed, allowing riders to travel at 20mph without pedaling is getting too close to moped speeds.

As for emtb's I personally don't have a problem with the current limit, but if it were to be raised, I hope there would be an option not to upgrade or be able to set your own limit up to the maximum allowed.

 

[Marcelfacd]

No such speed limit in europe as far as I know. Thing is that there are 3/4 main categories throughout europe for motorized vehicles, up to 25km/h, up to 40/45/50 and up to 110/120/130. They categorized the e-bike under the 25km/h..... no other reason as far as I know
Strange thing is that if you have a hpv you’re allowed to go whatever speed you like......80k/h through a city center? No problem ;-)

 

[Tamas]

In the EU (UK still included), there is already an ebike category with higher assist speed, the s-pedelec so there is a legal solution if 25kph is not enough. Generally, I would like the 20mph assist speed but if I have to choose between restricted trail access (like in the US) or unrestricted - as it is now - then it's not even a question. On tarmac, I can easily ride above the 25kph limit (with proper tires) so it's not really an issue there either.
Also, while pretty much all ebikers want higher assist speed there are just as many - if not more - opponents who don't even want motorized vehicles to be considered as bicycles and don't want to see them on bicycle trails, bike paths etc. So be careful what you wish for, higher assist speed can also mean different categorization for ebikes...

 

[Frank_Denmark]

I have 4-5 arguments for more speed

1)
Here in Denmark we already have the "Speed Pedelecs"
They are allowed to travel up to 45 km/h.
Like the Specs Turbo Vado - Link
Let's have a "Speed eMTB"

2)
The Vado uses the Brose 1.2 and 1.3 - Custom Rx Street Tuned - 250W.
Same motor as some Levos, but with different tuning.
This shows to me that motors of most eMTBs can do the same 45 km/h with out any problems or extra wear and tear.

3)
To drive these Speed Pedelec" You are obliged to have a special insurance and always were helmet - All serious MTB-bikers always do that

4)
The car drivers etc are getting familiar with the fast bikes.

5)
Driving is always dangerous.
The less time You spent on the road - the less danger
Higher speed = Less time on the road

Therefore I do not see any argument against allowing our eMTBs to go at 45 km/h

---

I am commuting*) 10-20 km to the trails.
On these journeys I travel at 30-35 km/h with 12-15% assistance.
By this I can keep up with all the fast road bikes
Short time commuting = Longer on the trails

At the trails*) I use 35-50% assistance, which gives me power to go fast on the flats and uphill. I just love that I there is no cut-off interfering with my flow

*) At private land of course - and only on my friends Turbo Levo

 

[Doomanic]

Just buy a speed pedelec.

 

[Frank_Denmark]

Just buy a speed pedelec.

Don't think they are any good at the trails

 

[AML]

I am in the US where our limit is 20mph. The road bikes here have a limit of 28mph. I know the UK’s limit is less than 20 but to be honest I wish our limit was 28 like the road bikes. I have a few trails I ride where 20 is plenty fast. But the roads getting there that is too slow. I would like to keep up with traffic a little more. I would feel safer.

 

[Tamas]

I am in the US where our limit is 20mph. The road bikes here have a limit of 28mph. I know the UK’s limit is less than 20 but to be honest I wish our limit was 28 like the road bikes. I have a few trails I ride where 20 is plenty fast. But the roads getting there that is too slow. I would like to keep up with traffic a little more. I would feel safer.

That’s why the EU has the ‘speed-pedelec’ category with 28mph assist limit.

 

[SquireRides]

As this is a mountain bike forum (not road bike or commuter forum), let's boil this debate down to the list of thing mountain bikers need from an ebike:

Question 1: Does a 16mph and nominal 250W limit get you to the top of a hill climb without coughing up a lung?
Answer 1: Yes

I've run out of questions.

 

[Lewis]

Question 2 do you have to ride on roads to get to hills

 

[Doomanic]

No.

 

[Lewis]

No.

Romanes eunt domus

 

[Welshman]

As this is a mountain bike forum....

Do you use your mountain bike to commute on mixed terrain??
Yes

 

[wrayb]

I am in the US so sorry for any ignorance about UK/European politics...but I would think if the bike shops/manufactures/parts companies/etc. are leading the charge you may get someone to listen. Money always talks here in the US so the big money entities need to be onboard to get legislation changed. So...the riders should be pushing their shops/contacts to up the assist limit. Just saying...

 

[Slowroller]

The manufacturers are the ones who wrote the legislation in the first place. In the US. I doubt they're going to go straight back and do it again.

 

[Paul Mac]

Good luck with getting politicians to agree on a suitable speed limit, just by reading this thread it's quite clear that even people with ebikes can't agree ?

 

[Tamas]

Good luck with getting politicians to agree on a suitable speed limit, just by reading this thread it's quite clear that even people with ebikes can't agree ?

Since the 45kph s-pedelec exists it’s hard for me to argue for higher assist speed limit for pedelec. Lawmakers will not merge the two (hopefully) and I prefer my unlimited/unrestricted use of my 25kph pedelec.
Also, if I use my Meta Power for commuting I ride it with the other wheel set with Schwalbe G-Ones instead of the soft Magic Marys. They roll much better and riding 30-32kph is not an issue with them.

 

[Tamas]

As this is a mountain bike forum (not road bike or commuter forum), let's boil this debate down to the list of thing mountain bikers need from an ebike:

Question 1: Does a 16mph and nominal 250W limit get you to the top of a hill climb without coughing up a lung?
Answer 1: Yes

I've run out of questions.

I ride my regular 6,5km/300m loop in 25min on my ebike and in 45min on my Canyon Strive... there is not a single trail or fire road where I’m faster or even getting close with the Strive so I’m OK ?

 

[Snoozeboy]

In the EU, there are different laws as to where you can ride what.

In the UK, there is a distinction between roads, footpaths and bridleways. IIRC you can't legally ride a bike on footpaths.

Here in Switzerland, most public footpaths seem rideable, in my experience, on an MTB except where otherwise stated (normally busy footpaths on beaches). There are even signs on many footpaths encouraging cyclists, skaters and pedestrians to respect each other and get along.

If you want to be assisted faster than 25kph, you can get an S-pedelec but you can't ride it off-road.

I ride a Bosch-powered Cube Stereo, with a brutal lag above the cut off point. There are better motors around with less lag and so I don't really see a problem. Once you're up to 25kph with these motors, then pushing fasters without assistance shouldn't be an issue.

I'd quite like an extra 5kph before the cutoff point for riding on tarmac, but I wouldn't be willing to be treated like an S-pedelec and give up my off-road access to achieve it. 25kph is plenty fast enough for most people, including me on trails, especially when those trails are also used by pedestrians.

My views seem borne out by the numbers signing up to the petition. 463 signatures in 6 months mean that this badly-written petition isn't going anywhere near Parliament.

 

[Bontee]

Not all E bike riders are downhill mtber's....some of us are commuter/social riders who have no interest in bike parks or gravity enduro

quite right,so go buy yourself an electric bike,insure it,tax it as an electric motorcycle and go knock yourself out at what ever speed you want right up the legal motorway limit.
These things are restricted for a reason and if you personally are not interested in gravity,enduro,bike parks or just normal x country that’s fine,just don’t get one then go out on the bridleways ,boats and rupps (I presume you know what these are ) and ruin it for the rest of us.