Petition for law change

[Welshman]

Petition: Change law on speed the assist cuts out on ebikes in Uk from 15.6mph to 20mph.

 

[RoJo]

Signed. Offroad, 16mph is plenty, but onroad the limit is bonkers. Any half decent road bike/rider can average over 16mph making them pointless. This rise would help get people out of their cars.

 

[Tetsugaku]

It's an EU wide directive isn't it? Maybe we can get Farage to do something useful after all

 

[Welshman]

It's an EU wide directive isn't it? Maybe we can get Farage to do something useful after all

we are brexiting, so it would be a UK law then

 

[Tetsugaku]

Without getting into it I really don't think we are - aaaaanyway, I don't know the reasons it was set at 25KPH, seems like an arbitrary round number to me. The argument to change it would probably have to disprove that reasoning to stand any chance right?

 

[R120]

There is a thread on here that explains why its at 25kph but I can't seem to find it, IIRCC it was something more to do with fitting not some sort of existing legislation framework rather than a whole new law when it was implemented.

 

[Welshman]

Without getting into it I really don't think we are - aaaaanyway, I don't know the reasons it was set at 20KPH, seems like an arbitrary round number to me. The argument to change it would probably have to disprove that reasoning to stand any chance right?

its 25kph in the UK......

 

[Snoozeboy]

It's 25kph Europe-wide.

 

[R120]

Yup typo

 

[MattyB]

Petition: Change law on speed the assist cuts out on ebikes in Uk from 15.6mph to 20mph.

Why are these petitions always riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes? It would only take a few seconds for the author to wash their text through a spell checker and not doing so completely devalues what might otherwise be a decent point. I am extremely skeptical whether the gov.uk petitions section has any real influence on political procedure (almost nothing makes it into the chamber even when they hit the 100k threshold), but the tiny number that do get there all seem to be very carefully worded; the lazily phrased/silly ones just get quietly ignored...

 

[Welshman]

Why are these petitions always riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes? It would only take a few seconds for the authore to wash their text through a spell checker and not doing so completely devalues what might otherwise be a decent point. I am extremely skeptical whether the gov.uk petitions section has any real influence on political procedure (almost nothing makes it into the chamber even when they hit the 100k threshold), but the tiny number that do get there all seem to be very carefully worded; the lazily phrased/silly ones just get quietly ignored...

I have no clue....I am not the petitioner, I just posted it here to try and help boost the numbers

 

[raine]

Why are these petitions always riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes? It would only take a few seconds for the author to wash their text through a spell checker and not doing so completely devalues what might otherwise be a decent point. I am extremely skeptical whether the gov.uk petitions section has any real influence on political procedure (almost nothing makes it into the chamber even when they hit the 100k threshold), but the tiny number that do get there all seem to be very carefully worded; the lazily phrased/silly ones just get quietly ignored...

Out of curiosity I just read the petition - and wow LOL might as well have just said "need moar speeds kay" because it sounds like "David Steed" half-assed the whole thing. Probably not going anywhere, not as presented.

Regardless of it is actually has any influence or not, at least put real effort into something like this, not just type something that looks like a WhatsApp text reply or Instagram blurb LOL

 

[Mikerb]

A far more effective way to lobby Govt is to write direct to the Secretaries of State...e.g either Michael Gove ( Environment) or Michael Ellis ( Transport). Assuming we leave the EU either or both would be freed from EU regulations and able to propose new UK Law during the process of adopting..or not...the mass of EU regulations into UK law. That would happen directly after leaving the EU so there is an imminent opportunity to achieve a change without brand new legislation having to be processed in the normal way.
Such an approach would however carry a great deal more weight if it was done by a representative body. So who would be that association?
Obviously the above applies to the UK but our Euro colleagues could pursue a similar process with the EU ( good luck with that!!)

 

[Welshman]

A far more effective way to lobby Govt is to write direct to the Secretaries of State...e.g either Michael Gove ( Environment) or Michael Ellis ( Transport). Assuming we leave the EU either or both would be freed from EU regulations and able to propose new UK Law during the process of adopting..or not...the mass of EU regulations into UK law. That would happen directly after leaving the EU so there is an imminent opportunity to achieve a change without brand new legislation having to be processed in the normal way.
Such an approach would however carry a great deal more weight if it was done by a representative body. So who would be that association?
Obviously the above applies to the UK but our Euro colleagues could pursue a similar process with the EU ( good luck with that!!)

I have tweeted the said transport minister about adopting an increase in emtb cut off speeds in relation to his increase in c2w allowance for the purchase of ebikes for commuting purposes. It will take time

 

[knut7]

Increasing restriction to 20 mph may improve safety, and it may not. A risk related to ebikes is that other road users are poor at judging the speed of the ebike in certain situations/terrain the ebike are going faster than whats expected. Increasing the limit will increase the problem. I don't know of any research showing improved safety related to increased speed on a pedelec.

In europe a lot of cycling infrastructure and infrastucture shared with pedestrians is designed for 25kph max. Increasing the limit will make the ebike (pedelec) less suited for these kinds of infrastructure. That isn't what we want, is it? As far as I know the typical US infrastructure isn't comparable.

Also chances are increased limit will lead to drivers license, type approval, registration, etc being required. There's already some pressure to introduce this, but it's not happening, partly since research show the pedelec has a behaviour and impact comparable to a regular bike.

 

[SquireRides]

Can't think of any reason to go to 20Mph on the motor. That's what gravity is for, and it's even more efficient than Eco mode.

Seriously, the big risk is that we end up like the US where people fear speed pedelecs. 16mph is fine, and if it keeps ebikes relatively under the radar as far as trail use, insurance, etc etc is concerned, then im happy with that.

 

[Jaygam]

Had thought about this and consider the best option is to wait until were out of Europe, Europeans are mad for ebikes, not only would it give them somthing to resent but they would also be buying there own stuff back from us lol
There would also be less of a demand for the kit to de-ristrict.

 

[Welshman]

Increasing restriction to 20 mph may improve safety, and it may not. A risk related to ebikes is that other road users are poor at judging the speed of the ebike in certain situations/terrain the ebike are loving faster than whats expected. Increasing the limit will increase the problem. I don't know of any research showing improved safety related to increased speed on a pedelec.

In europe a lot of cycling infrastructure and infrastucture shared with pedestrians is designed for 25kph max. Increasing the limit will make the ebike (pedelec) less suited for these kinds of infrastructure. That isn't what we want, is it? As far as I know the typical US infrastructure isn't comparable.

Also chances are increased limit will lead to drivers license, type approval, registration, etc being required. There's already some pressure to introduce this, but it's not happening, partly since research show the pedelec has a behaviour and impact comparable to a regular bike.

Speed of an ebike at 20mph...is no different to the speed of a normal bike at 20mph, people still couldnt judge it

Also there are multiple riders on here with illegal de-restrictee bikes due to the cut off speed....slightly increasing that speed might help cut down on that criminal behaviour and also mean not losing warranty by de-restricting.

More riders then may/may not buy E bikes for commuting duties which will decrease congestion, pollution etc etc......

E Bikes are not just limited to the tracks and trails of mtber's

 

[Welshman]

Can't think of any reason to go to 20Mph on the motor. That's what gravity is for, and it's even more efficient than Eco mode.

Seriously, the big risk is that we end up like the US where people fear speed pedelecs. 16mph is fine, and if it keeps ebikes relatively under the radar as far as trail use, insurance, etc etc is concerned, then im happy with that.

Not all E bike riders are downhill mtber's....some of us are commuter/social riders who have no interest in bike parks or gravity enduro

 

[SquireRides]

Not all E bike riders are downhill mtber's....some of us are commuter/social riders who have no interest in bike parks or gravity enduro

Me too! My eMTB is a work horse - I ride trails, I commute, I shop. The only time I feel like i need more speed is occasionally on the flat when the road is open and clear. But that's rare, and even then I don't *need* the speed. About town, I'm still far faster than a car, door to door.

IMHO 16Mph feels fine for eMTB use, and is plenty for urban commuting.

Would 20mph change my experience significantly? No. But it would start to blur the lines with speed pedelecs, mopeds etc which leave us all at greater risk of negative legislation.

 

[Welshman]

Me too! My eMTB is a work horse - I ride trails, I commute, I shop. The only time I feel like i need more speed is occasionally on the flat when the road is open and clear. But that's rare, and even then I don't *need* the speed. About town, I'm still far faster than a car, door to door.

IMHO 16Mph feels fine for eMTB use, and is plenty for urban commuting.

Would 20mph change my experience significantly? No. But it would start to blur the lines with speed pedelecs, mopeds etc which leave us all at greater risk of negative legislation.

Yet so many ebike riders are using apps, dongles etc etc to hack their bikes.....go figure. At least if there was a slightly higher legal limit, it would limit the illegallity of hacking motors.......

 

[Fivetones]

Given the growing prominence of the climate emergency at government level, potential exit from the EU and talk growing about pedelecs in the press (they’re almost certainly going to change attitudes to cycling in the UK) then a window of opportunity for lobbying is approaching.

It’s not at this point though. I work closely with BEIS. Government is distracted by Brexit.

I’d also agree that you have to be careful what you wish for!

 

[craig landau]

went for a ride in the bush yesterday , average speed was 21kph top speed 63.4 kph thats in the bush on a dusty trail
25k on the street is a joke , no wonder car drivers are pissed off, scooters do 30kph but bike are set to 25

 

[SquireRides]

went for a ride in the bush yesterday , average speed was 21kph top speed 63.4 kph thats in the bush on a dusty trail
25k on the street is a joke , no wonder car drivers are pissed off, scooters do 30kph but bike are set to 25

You know you can cycle past 25kph?

If you want *assisted* speed on roads, buy a moped. Not an eMTB.

 

[craig landau]

lol i thought you sat there feet up on the bars and sipping a margarita

 

[SquireRides]

lol i thought you sat there feet up on the bars and sipping a margarita

Now you're drink-driving too?!?!?

The recklessness on this forum!

 

[TonyC]

Sorry, just to add my 2 pence worth. My wife and I did the 100k London Nightride this weekend on our Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 AT and Access. Due the combination of the resistance and the restriction we were slower than old men on their fat bikes, it was mad. The Only place the motor gave us any benefits were the hills at Christal Palace. Down hill mine is a monster, on the road due to the restrictor its like a disabled hippo with its hands tied

 

[Welshman]

You know you can cycle past 25kph?

If you want *assisted* speed on roads, buy a moped. Not an eMTB.

Or break the law and add a dongle or use an app instead....as some on this forum have done. At least by upping the limit slightly, it might cut down on illegal ebikes on the road.

 

[SquireRides]

Sorry, just to add my 2 pence worth. My wife and I did the 100k London Nightride this weekend on our Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 AT and Access. Due the combination of the resistance and the restriction we were slower than old men on their fat bikes, it was mad. The Only place the motor gave us any benefits were the hills at Christal Palace. Down hill mine is a monster, on the road due to the restriction its like a disabled hippo with its hands tied

Sure, Ive seen that a lot on clear flat stretches (like old railway bike routes). Any reasonably fit roadie will smoke eMTBs. Roadies will always smoke any type of MTB on sealed paths though so...

EBikes arent meant to make you the fastest thing on the road. They are a compromise, due to the weight an mechanics.

You have to decide if its the right vehicle for you. For me, current ebikes suit me for urban roads (stop-start, heavy traffic), my hilly city, and easy access to the off-road trails out of town.

I totally get the frustration that if you're regularly on a fast road or bike lane, resistance past 16mph is frustrating. The choice today is: Accept that and have a leisurely, easy ride, or get fit/fast on an acoustic road bike.

Maybe there's a motor-output compromise here? 20mph assist, but the torque or watts is restricted past 16mph. That would mean you get to 20mph and can easily spin along at that speed (flat road doesnt need high torque or watts). But no one is going to burn up an offroad climb or baaaarp through the woodland singletrack.

 

[Mikerb]

Someone earlier in the thread said the 25kph limit was set because of an existing speed limit on cycleways in France. We have no such limit in the UK and neither would it make any sense....any bike can go faster so how would you enforce the limit. An e bike can go faster but not with motor assist. So I can see no logic in the 25kph limit. The limit should be set taking account of functionality. Personally 25kph is fine for my type of riding but I fully understand the need for a slightly higher limit for those using an e bike on tarmac.