Pedaling resistance with motor off

[steve_sordy]

Here's another way on e8000 to maximize what the motors inertia will accomplish for you is if you go out riding on relatively up and not too steep but a roller coaster type of stuff and you'll find that if you let the bike slow down too much on the way up the hill vis-à-vis what gear you're in you will not be able to turn the cranks it'll just get slower and slower and you'll get weaker and weaker whereas if you can match this inertial spin of the e8000 motor perfectly you can use all of this passive energy to get you to the top of the hill. In fact if you're looking to train a perfect stroke that has equal pressure in all 360° try doing that on an e-bike with the motor off.

The inertia of the motor is minimal compared to the inertia of the bike and you together rolling at speed. If you can maintain the speed, you will get over the humps. Try physically boosting the bike with your body weight at the bottom of the "down" to add some oomph to the roller coaster "up".

I can feel the resistance to pedalling above the cut off speed. But what else to expect on a bike that weighs twice as much and with big fat sticky tyres with low pressures? When my first emtb Summer came, I refitted the fast-rolling tyres the bike came with and I could pedal 1mph faster. I increased the tyre pressures a fair bit and I went faster again. It is still a big heavy bike though! it sounds like you are comparing your emtb to your mtb. Ignore what the emtb does worse than the mtb. Instead embrace and take pleasure what it does better!

 

[Alexbn921]

Brose has a ton of motor drag.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

i just reread the op. lets do the math: 20 km there 30 km up mountain: sum is 100 km to and from. are you kidding me on one battery regardless of resistance.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

GEARS
Use them.
I feel the same thing once i go beyond 15.5mph on a flat smooth tarmac road and im using non knobbly tyres.
It's the weight of the bike, and that then impacts upon your legs soon as the power shuts off. To counteract this shift into an easier gear and you wont notice as much. And that's all it is down to.
If you try to ride the bike from a standing start without the motor it immediately feels sluggish. That is the effect you feel and momentum doesn't really play a part, you are effectively in freewheel up to 15.5, and after that is nearly the same as the standing start effect.

Because of the motor, you never go very high up the gears, so when it cuts off, you are pretty much in the wrong gear for the bike and you should go a few higher.

That make sense to everyone ?, yes ?.
Excellent

 

[Labrador29]

Sorry but I have to counter this. The picture below is the only thing in an ebike motor that will offer inertia. All the weight of this motor armature is very close to the shaft to allow it to spin up and stop very quickly. It weighs 300g and stops within seconds when you stop pedaling. The inertia would be infinitesimal and very short lived. Are you sure you're not confusing inertia with power?
Power is added as you add pedal force, so if you pedal less, you get less assistance but it's still there. Power is also fed in according to cadence. This comes from your battery and there is no "passive energy" it's just how mid drive motors work!

View attachment 71614

Thanks Bearing Man, your expert contributions to this site are so helpful. Many well-intended comments just confuse the issue at times. I am a simple man who appreciates expert advice. I ride with a geriatric lot nick-named by other more sensible geriatrics, as the " suicide quad" . 'On Wednesday, two of our squad members ( ages range between 65-84) had 'Offs'. One due to a pedal strike, the other due to too much speed into a tight corner on a sheep track. Ooops, I'm off track a little. One thing I have noticed is the faster I go down a grassy, rocky 'spur', the smoother the ride and the easier it is to control the bike. Don't need a motor at 60kph!! Just have to make sure there is a 'run-out' should things turn pear-shaped. Incidentally, my 2019 Giant Trance +1 pro has always had a slightly noisy motor, but it has performed faultlessly over 10,500 km. Keep the advice coming. Thanks

 

[Bearing Man]

I happened to come across this posted on Avdweb.nl.

Yamaha PW-X2

Here, I share technical solutions that arised during the development of my solar-bike.

www.avdweb.nl

“Most mid-drive motors (like the Bosch) have just one freewheel, this is used for pedaling without turning the motor. With just a single freewheel, the motor can never drive the rear wheel without the pedals turning, this requires an extra freewheel.

The Yamaha has 2 freewheels, so we can do both:

• Pedaling without turning the motor
• The motor can drive the rear wheel without the pedals turning

A disadvantage of the Yamaha is that gear wheel 3 and 4 will rotate during pedaling without motor assistance, which will give some loss.”

Could this be what we are feeling ? A year later and I still experience the “loss”.

Just for info: All mid drive motors, Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Shimano, Impulse, Panasonic, Mahle, Continental etc. etc. have two clutches (Freewheel mechanisms) Some have ratchet and pawl systems, some have sprag clutch bearings or ramp needle roller bearings. If you could get around the electronics, they can all drive direct from the crank or direct from the motor. If they couldn't, walk assist would not work on any of them.