Orbea Urrun EP801 and XT Di2 with auto shift headache

[Jon_boy]

Hi all, new to the forum and new to e-bikes but been biking for many years. So I bought the 2023 Urrun as it had the EP801 (albeit the RS version) which is compatible with the new Di2 XT auto shift drive train or so I thought. I purchased all the components as an upgrade which included the SW-M8150-R (right shifter switch) and the RD-M8150-11 (derailleur).

I then turned on the bike and I get an E903 error which means "An abnormality due to different settings, etc. between units was detected".

Does this mean this will simply not work with the Urrun or can something be done at a Shimano service centre to get it to work? It's all supposed to be compatible according to Shimano.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jonathan Guy

 

[aarfeldt]

I'm in the exact same situation - but on a Rise 2023 with the same motor.
Even if you get the E903 error, you can connect with the E-Tube app - but the AutoShift section is not available.
Some settings needs to be altered.

I know it can be done, because my dealer is using it.
He told me Shimano needs to enable it in the software on the bike - seems odd.
I will update this, if I get a solution

 

[Jon_boy]

My bike is with a Shimano service centre at the moment and even they can't get it to work and said they would have to speak to Shimano on Monday for more info.

Interestingly eMax Tuning do now support changing the shifting mode on the EP801 according their release notes here:

new version 2.38 of miniMax released and current possibilities of optimising the new generation drive units EP801/EP6 (incl. “RS” and “CRG” – variants) – eMax Tuning

www.emax-tuning.com

You can also do it with the free version, no license required but you do need the PCE02 data cable.

I've emailed the service centre with this info in a hope they may give it a try.

Just waiting to hear back.

 

[aarfeldt]

I'm also talking to Markus from emax - same stuff.
It might be that the bike is "locked" to 12-speed casette and has to be unlocked by Shimano, ot accept the 11-speed casette...just guessing.

 

[aarfeldt]

I have used the emax function and gone from mechanical to electric shifting.
The error is gone and the shifting is working.

 

[Jon_boy]

Great, glad you got it working. At least now I know it can be done. The problem I have now is the existing 12 speed cassette uses micro spline and the 11 speed Linkglide cassette uses HD. More hassle, it never ends. Did you have the same issue? Can the free hub be swapped out or do I need a whole new hub/wheel?

 

[aarfeldt]

On this bike I had the same issue with the hub - and since it was a Shimano hub, there was no HD possibility.
But I had some spare wheels with the correct hub, så I could mount the linkglide 11-spd casette.

 

[aarfeldt]

Yesterday I had a online session with eMax from Germany.
They speek/write very good english.

The job was:
- get AutoShift to work.
- raise the speed limiter to 32kmh.

Bike:
- Orbea Rise M20 2023 with RD-M8150-11-SGS 11s derailleur (Di2 LinkGlide)

The bike did turn on a error code E903, when I connected the RD-M8150-11, which was quite strange.
AutoShift is not available in the Shimano mobile app, and not in E-tube Windows program.

The free miniMax software could change the shifting from mechanical to electric - and this made the error E903 go away and the AutoShift to be enabled - and it did work.

So....the German tech connected via the free software AnyDesk, and I could follow all the steps.
After some minutes he was finished.

I assembled the bike, and did a quick test ride in the rain/dark.
The speed limiter was raised and the AutoShift was working.
I am happy.

I have not had time to look through the software - but as I remember I can:
- set the speed limiter between 25 and 50 (32 is enough for me)
- set the power level in all modes (up to 600w)
- change between mechanical/electric mode for the derailleur
- a lot of reading possibilities.

The prize was €119 and it was worth all the money.
The support is very good.

--

I had a brutal crash on monday on my Orbea Rise M10 2021 - and I will update the thread if something goes wrong with the bike/software.

 

[Jon_boy]

Thanks for the update. Hope everything is ok after your crash.

The Shimano service centre have stopped responding to my messages so I'm going to do it myself and I've ordered the SM-PCE02 data cable and just waiting for it to arrive from Germany along with a new hub.

I'll buy the license and hope I can get the eMax windows software to run on my Mac using Parallels.

I think you're right with the speed limit, 32kmh would be fine for most people.

So why did the guy have to connect to your computer? I can see in the Botton right corner you can change the speed limit yourself.

 

[Backflip]

Thanks for the information - I will try to contact the guys from EMAX too to speed up my EP801 bike.

 

[uberamd]

I have used the emax function and gone from mechanical to electric shifting.
The error is gone and the shifting is working.

Just want to echo this: on my Canyon Spectral:ON I was able to install the Di2 hardware and use the miniMax software (windows app, no license required) to enable electronic shifting. Worked like a charm.

Biggest headache was buying that stupid Shimano cable which should cost about 1/10th what they charge for it.

 

[a_double]

Wish I came across this thread before a pieced together a Di2 system. I'm in the same boat but I don't know if I have the EP801 or EP801-RS. My bike is a '24 Santa Cruz Bullit.

Interestingly, I can get my RD-M8150-11 to shift using the Derailleur adjustment function in the Maintenance tab, but not with my SW-M8150.

Is the only known fix via the eMax software running on a Windows machine along with the SM-PCE02 box? Does the box come with the cable too?

I installed a Di2 system in 2017, it was such a breeze. This kinda sucks having to go through this despite following the Shimano compatibility chart.

 

[Backflip]

Only Orbea bikes use the power and torque reduced EP801-RS drive unit and these units are clearly marked with a blue "RS" sticker on the right hand motor cover, so your 24 Santa Cruz most probably uses the standard EP801 with max. 85Nm of torque and max. 600W peak power.
Even if your new system configuration with the new electronic derailleur and control switch now is compatible to the official Shimano chart, as an end user you are officially not allowed to do such changes to your bike because this change might break some legal safety and EMC rules. Yes, this sounds quite stupid, but this is the reason why Shimano or any dealer or LBS won´t help you in your situation when you have changed the derailleur by yourself.
So, you definitely need a SM-PCE02 interface and a Windows based computer with at least Win10 (or also Win11) and then can use the miniMax program already in the licence free (and so free of charge) mode to configure your great RD-M8150-11 in the correct way. Take care when ordering the SM-PCE02 interface that you will get the new packaging version with the new adapter cable with the small SD300 plug, otherwise you need an extra adapter for connecting the interface to your bike, see in chapter 3.2 of this document.
Please also check that the control handles of your SW-M8150-R control unit are programmed to the correct functinality to switch gears up and down. This could be done with the E-Tube-Project software (Bluetooth based Cyclist app or Windows based Professional program).

 

[a_double]

Thank you @Backflip

Section 3.1 of this document states that you can make changes with a smartphone and a Bluetooth enabled component. I have a SW-EN600-L.

I also upgraded my motor firmware to 4.2.0. Hopefully I didn't screw myself.

Has anyone used the phone app with a Bluetooth connection to make the change needed for electrical shifting?

 

[Backflip]

Thank you @Backflip

Section 3.1 of this document states that you can make changes with a smartphone and a Bluetooth enabled component. I have a SW-EN600-L.

I also upgraded my motor firmware to 4.2.0. Hopefully I didn't screw myself.

Has anyone used the phone app with a Bluetooth connection to make the change needed for electrical shifting?

Please read the full chapters 3 and 12 of this document and you will see that you indeed can connect to your bike via your Bluetooth capable SW-EN600-L control (also with the latest motor firmware 4.2.0) via Bluetooth.
However, it is NOT possible to change gear mode settings via Bluetooth!
So there is NO chance to change gear mode from mechanical to electronical via Bluetooth on your EP801 based bike - you definitely need a SM-PCE02 interface and a Windows based computer.
It is like it is, no way out. Either you accept this fact or you ignore this fact, doesn´t matter...
In the meantime I know this EMAX stuff quite well and have quite good relations and frequent correspondence to those guys from EMAX since I´ve modified my own bike with their solution...
I have realized that there are some guys around in this forum (and also on some other platforms - maybe "craigslist" in your country) who rent their SM-PCE02 interface on a daily basis for relatively little money, which is a great idea.
I think PTaroni is one of them. However, I think he´s not from the same country than you are...

 

[a_double]

Please read the full chapters 3 and 12 of this document and you will see that you indeed can connect to your bike via your Bluetooth capable SW-EN600-L control (also with the latest motor firmware 4.2.0) via Bluetooth.
However, it is NOT possible to change gear mode settings via Bluetooth!
So there is NO chance to change gear mode from mechanical to electronical via Bluetooth on your EP801 based bike - you definitely need a SM-PCE02 interface and a Windows based computer.
It is like it is, no way out. Either you accept this fact or you ignore this fact, doesn´t matter...
In the meantime I know this EMAX stuff quite well and have quite good relations and frequent correspondence to those guys from EMAX since I´ve modified my own bike with their solution...
I have realized that there are some guys around in this forum (and also on some other platforms - maybe "craigslist" in your country) who rent their SM-PCE02 interface on a daily basis for relatively little money, which is a great idea.
I think PTaroni is one of them. However, I think he´s not from the same country than you are...

Thanks, I see your points in the document.

This is expensive. I can' t believe Shimano won't let consumers change the gear mode. There aren't any laws in the USA that pertain to the gear mode. I can understand the other speed governing settings, them being shielded from general public access, but don't understand shielding for the Autoshift setting.

I can't even buy the SM-PCE02 interface here in the USA. Any hints on where to source one?

 

[Backflip]

Thanks, I see your points in the document.

This is expensive. I can' t believe Shimano won't let consumers change the gear mode. There aren't any laws in the USA that pertain to the gear mode. I can understand the other speed governing settings, them being shielded from general public access, but don't understand shielding for the Autoshift setting.

I can't even buy the SM-PCE02 interface here in the USA. Any hints on where to source one?

You can believe it or not but it is just a legal thing why Shimano don´t let a private person change the mechanical derailleur to an electric derailleur.
There is at least a theoretical risk that your intervention in the electrical system (which you already have made) makes the system go havoc and the drive unit let you go down the drain with an unintentional max. power and max. speed.

Especially with the ridicully strange laws in the US, this is a potential issue for Shimano which they for sure want to avoid.
The really strange thing is that you can legally buy such an electronic derailleur on the free market, but are legally not allowed to mount it on your bike, but this is another story which we should not further discuss, because we won´t change these rules.
So, again, as soon as you personally change the electric system of an E-Bike (and the change of a mechanical to an electrical derailleur is such a change), then officially the homologation of the bike needs to be done again and officially also FCC (Federal Communications Commission, an American institution) rules are void.
So I´m quite sure the US offices and institutions are heavily involved in these (strange) legal issues too...
But this is just stupid bureaucracy (bureauCRAZY) stuff as I already wrote before.

However, I cannot believe that you cannot get any SM-PCE02 interface in the US.
There e.g. are many (e.g. Japanese) guys who sell these interfaces on ebay and also ship them to the states (for sure they are mostly quite expensive and maybe not all of these sellers are reliable, but there definitely is a chance to get such an interface also in the US).
Also maybe you can find a LBS who sells Shimano based e-bikes and who will (and should) have such an interface in his toolbox, be nice to the responsible person and just throw a few bucks into the thank-you box for borrowing the interface over night or on a weekend.
I´m crossing fingers that it will work out for you.

 

[michael williams]

Does anyone know if a shimano SM-PCE1 will work as I have one of those? I would have to get a cable adapter for the new smaller cables.

Just read the eMax document and it does work. Sorry got ahead of myself.

 

[Backflip]

That depends => What intention do you have with the older SM-PCE1?
What do you want to change on your bike?
This older SM-PCE1 interface is no more compatible with the newer E-Tube-Project-Professional software version 5.x.x (which is mandatory for the EP801 / EP6 drive units), however it will work with the EMAX programs.
So, depending on the purpose, the SM-PCE1 may work or not.
Changing gear modes from mechanical to Di2 electronical may work, speeding up the bike may not work.

 

[Dhd12]

I upgraded my 2023 Canyon Spectral:On to Autoshift/Freeshift. I bought all the parts online and my LBS (Shimano approved tech) did the install. He had to contact Shimano Spain re the software update/change. He said mine was the first Shimano Spain had done.

 

[Backflip]

I upgraded my 2023 Canyon Spectral:On to Autoshift/Freeshift. I bought all the parts online and my LBS (Shimano approved tech) did the install. He had to contact Shimano Spain re the software update/change. He said mine was the first Shimano Spain had done.

So, you are the lucky guy.
Here in Austria and most probably also in Germany, the Shimano represenative "Thalinger Lange" refuses to set correct configuration changes when you have bought and mounted the components by yourself.
Did you have to pay extra for your LBS or Shimano Spain for doing the job of correctiing configuration change for your new Di2 derailleur?

 

[Dhd12]

So, you are the lucky guy.
Here in Austria and most probably also in Germany, the Shimano represenative "Thalinger Lange" refuses to set correct configuration changes when you have bought and mounted the components by yourself.
Did you have to pay extra for your LBS or Shimano Spain for doing the job of correctiing configuration change for your new Di2 derailleur?

Yeh. you always have to pay in Spain. I let my LBS do it as I didn't know what length Di2 cale I needed and I didn`t want to mess it up

 

[michael williams]

All I want to do is switch to the Di2 12 speed shifting. I'm hoping the SM-PCE1 may work.

 

[Dhd12]

Great, glad you got it working. At least now I know it can be done. The problem I have now is the existing 12 speed cassette uses micro spline and the 11 speed Linkglide cassette uses HD. More hassle, it never ends. Did you have the same issue? Can the free hub be swapped out or do I need a whole new hub/wheel?

You have to swap the freehub to HG type

 

[Astro66]

Hi guys,

Great thread.

I have just bought a Merida e160 700 EMTB, with an EP6 motor. It came with 12 speed XT mechanical shifting. I've bought the Di2 Shimano XT RD-M8150-12 Rear Derailleur, and the Shimano Deore XT SW-M8150 Di2 Right Shift Switch.

I plugged them into the EP6 and as expected, I got the E903 error. I have downloaded the miniMax software, and installed it on my laptop. I am going to the store where I bought the bike tomorrow, and they say they'll lend me the SM-PCE02 interface.

Hopefully just a straight forward job to switch from Mechanical to Electronic Shifting using the software. Just a note that the most common SM-PCE02 interface cable, has a lead with a SD50 plug, so you need the SD50 to SD300 adaptor if you get that interface. Then a short SD300 cable to go from the adaptor to the motor's Etube port.

Some other notes is the 12 speed derailleur will only give you FREE SHFT and not AUTO SHIFT, because there is no 12 speed Linkglide Cassette. But a trade secret I've heard is that Shimano may be bringing out a 12 speed Linkglide Cassette in August. After which, a firmware update will allow AUTO SHIFT to be turned on for the 12 Speed Derailleur.

This is why I have gone for the 12 speed derailleur, rather than replace the rear wheel to get a HG Hub, and put an 11 speed Linkglide, and Electronic Derailleur system in. Hopefully my contacts in Shimano haven't let me down.

Whilst I mostly want the FREE SHIFT, I can see times I'd like the AUTO SHIFT.

I also want to increase the bike speed to 32kph, and will take the above advice and get EMax involved, once I have all the Electronic Shifting sorted.

Anyway. I'll keep you all updated. And thank you for sharing all the above experiences. It has made the process of conversion to Electronic Shifting, in such a new motor system, less stressful.

 

[Astro66]

Well ......... the installation and reprogramming went smooth as silk, after the Bike Shop loaned me the SM-PCE02 interface. The only hick-up was the cassette top and bottom gears were set incorrectly by the people who built the bike. So I had to set my smallest gear to 10 teeth, and my largest gear to 51 teeth in the EMax programme, before it would allow me to download the changes.

I took the bike for a ride afterwards and the FREE SHIFT is working really nicely. Whenever you coast. The shifter and motor work together to put the bike in the right gear, dependant on your speed. The extra acceleration it gave me out of corners, because you were always in the right gear, was sensational.

I can thoroughly recommend this upgrade. Thanks again to everyone who posted the help.

 

[RiseRider]

Yesterday I had a online session with eMax from Germany.
They speek/write very good english.

The job was:
- get AutoShift to work.
- raise the speed limiter to 32kmh.

Bike:
- Orbea Rise M20 2023 with RD-M8150-11-SGS 11s derailleur (Di2 LinkGlide)

The bike did turn on a error code E903, when I connected the RD-M8150-11, which was quite strange.
AutoShift is not available in the Shimano mobile app, and not in E-tube Windows program.

The free miniMax software could change the shifting from mechanical to electric - and this made the error E903 go away and the AutoShift to be enabled - and it did work.

So....the German tech connected via the free software AnyDesk, and I could follow all the steps.
After some minutes he was finished.

I assembled the bike, and did a quick test ride in the rain/dark.
The speed limiter was raised and the AutoShift was working.
I am happy.

I have not had time to look through the software - but as I remember I can:
- set the speed limiter between 25 and 50 (32 is enough for me)
- set the power level in all modes (up to 600w)
- change between mechanical/electric mode for the derailleur
- a lot of reading possibilities.

The prize was €119 and it was worth all the money.
The support is very good.

--

I had a brutal crash on monday on my Orbea Rise M10 2021 - and I will update the thread if something goes wrong with the bike/software.

View attachment 126543

i plan on upgrading to 11 linkglide too, my bike is a m20 2023.

if u go after the shimano compatibilityy list i basically need to change the whole drivetrain...
-did u used all of the stuff shimano recommended or did u kept some old stuff from the drivetrain?
-did u actually got a new rear wheel?
-did the new shimano sprocket worked out compared to the stock e*13?

after getting all parts together in the shopping basket, i noticed the 11 linkglide need a different hub to fit the cassette, the one coming with orbea is microspline and the 11 casette is HG...

sorry for my bad englisch i hope u understand my question.. thx

 

[Dhd12]

You don’t need the crank arms, spider or chairing. Although I changed mine

 

[Astro66]

i noticed the 11 linkglide need a different hub to fit the cassette, the one coming with orbea is microspline and the 11 casette is HG...

Yes. If you currently have a 12 speed Shimano cassette, which the 2023 ORB M20 has, it will have a Microspline Freehub, whilst the 11 speed needs a HG Freehub, and you cannot just change the freehub. You have to change the whole hub, which means re-spoking the wheel. So it's probably easier to just get a new rear wheel with a HG hub.

Don't forget you need to reprogramme the motor from Manual Shifting to Electronic Shifting, which needs the PCE02 cable. Or you can ask a local Shimano Agent to do it, but they may not want to. In which case you'll need to do it yourself, and that cable is expensive.

 

[Astro66]

You don’t need the crank arms, spider or chairing. Although I changed mine

The 2023 ORB M20 has a 12 speed Shimano chainring. Are they compatible with an 11 speed chain ? It will work, but you won't get the best engagement, as the teeth are probably thinner.

I have never tried that. I guess it should be ok. But I know a 12 speed shimano chain won't go on an 11 speed shimano chainring.