Orbea Rise Cascade Component Link

[Ou812]

Anyone got any info on if these links completely void all warranty on the frame? Someone in the group said it would, but I called orbea and the lady gave me a really inconveniencing, "no it wouldn't void the warranty"

It will void your warranty, just keep the stock links and if you have issues swap the stock links back in before you take it anywhere. I wouldn’t be posting pics of it online either, I’ve heard of another brand that browsed a persons social media accounts and found out he lied about how his frame broke and wouldn’t cover it under warranty. I don’t know if Orbea would go that far but who knows.

 

[MistaCh0w]

Any try to run this new link with a longer shock & offset bushing yet? If it's even possible, would it get the ride to 160mm of rear travel?

 

[DanMcDan]

Any try to run this new link with a longer shock & offset bushing yet? If it's even possible, would it get the ride to 160mm of rear travel?

I am running the link with a 210x60mm shock, it’s approximately 162mm travel on the rear.

 

[MistaCh0w]

I am running the link with a 210x60mm shock, it’s approximately 162mm travel on the rear.

What shock are you running? I did you need offset bushings? Is it a coil?

Wonder if the link changed the travel path of the shock vs the frame at all...ie giving more or less space to run a larger air shock like the x2.

 

[DanMcDan]

What shock are you running? I did you need offset bushings? Is it a coil?

Wonder if the link changed the travel path of the shock vs the frame at all...ie giving more or less space to run a larger air shock like the x2.

Im running a Rockshox Monarch Rc3 from a 2016 trek slash, it’s 210x60 with no offset bushings as the i2i hasn’t changed, just the extra 5mm stroke. This is on a Medium H frame. The X2 won’t work on any size frame as far as I know as the air cam is too large and hits the top tube.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I have a cascade link ordered. I'm going to put it on my XL rise that is setup as a mullet, I am running a 216x63 (8.5x2.5) DHX2 with a single offset bushing. I plan on continuing the mullet setup, and using the DHX2 travel reduction spacer feature to space the shock down to 214x60.5, if the tire to seat tube clearance is an issue.

I had sent a few emails back and forth with cascade about shock setups with their link. It seemed from those emails, that the relation of the shock to the rest of the frame and yoke was un-changed. I was inquiring about the fitment of the 214x63 shock and they said that the tire was likely to hit the seat tube at full compression... even with a smaller rear wheel.

 

[Cavi]

please let me know how it goes, I am running a Marchozzi coil with the 216 x 63 and two reduction bushings and am considering the cascade link, why not.....

 

[PureFM]

Does this thing raise the BB? Trying to figure out how to Mullet the rise without long shocking it, like 150/150 or 160/150. Although USD393 posted to New Zealand is not far off the cost of a 216x63 shock.

 

[DanMcDan]

Does this thing raise the BB? Trying to figure out how to Mullet the rise without long shocking it, like 150/150 or 160/150. Although USD393 posted to New Zealand is not far off the cost of a 216x63 shock.

Yea, I would guess at about 2-3mm, it feels the slightest bit taller.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

The cascade link does not change the bottom bracket height. The way it works is that the cascade link is longer, therefor it's a longer lever arm on the shock, and the rear wheel travels further and the seat stay angle at full shock compression is different then with the stock link.

Related, My link arrives today. I'm going to be replacing all of the bearings and installing the link/pre-load kit at the same time. I'll be running this with the 214x60.5 shock with the 27.5 rear wheel. I should be able to report back what the fitment issues are with the longer shock conversions, as well as the stock air shock, with 29 f/r and a 2mm offset bushing to slacken the bike (as that's my preferred 29r setup).

 

[DanMcDan]

The cascade link does not change the bottom bracket height. The way it works is that the cascade link is longer, therefor it's a longer lever arm on the shock, and the rear wheel travels further and the seat stay angle at full shock compression is different then with the stock link.

Related, My link arrives today. I'm going to be replacing all of the bearings and installing the link/pre-load kit at the same time. I'll be running this with the 214x60.5 shock with the 27.5 rear wheel. I should be able to report back what the fitment issues are with the longer shock conversions, as well as the stock air shock, with 29 f/r and a 2mm offset bushing to slacken the bike (as that's my preferred 29r setup).

I have my link installed, and can safely say that the BB height is different

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

I have my link installed, and can safely say that the BB height is different

Same. Bike definitely sits taller which is plenty fine with me.

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

Cascade components link does NOT fit H15 frames without modifying the link.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I have my link installed, and can safely say that the BB height is different

Same. Bike definitely sits taller which is plenty fine with me.

Are you saying that the dynamic bottom bracket height is higher or the static bottom bracket height? It would not be a surprise to say that the cascade link has a higher dynamic bottom bracket height. Once you adjust the spring rate for the higher initial leverage rate, you're going to have more progression, which is going to start to become very noticeable in the mid stroke, just past sag.

In order for the cascade link to measurably impact static bottom bracket height with how it works, it would have to be shaped very differently then both it and the stock link are. In addition, it would be at odds with how triangle geometry works generally. Over simplified, you cannot have articulation that brings the rear wheel closer to the seat tube at full compression, while simultaneously increasing that dimension at full extension.

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

Are you saying that the dynamic bottom bracket height is higher or the static bottom bracket height. it would not be a surprise to say that the cascade link has a higher dynamic bottom bracket height. Once you adjust the spring rate for the higher initial leverage rate, you're going to have more progression, which is going to start to become very noticeable in the mid stroke, just past sag.

In order for the cascade link to measurably impact static bottom bracket height with how it works, it would have to be shaped very differently then it is, and the stock link is.

Too much techy talk. All I can say is bike sits higher. I'm having an easier time clearing rocks.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

Too much techy talk. All I can say is bike sits higher. I'm having an easier time clearing rocks.

well ok then... fwiw, your bottom bracket height is the same. Your dynamic sag (and resulting dynamic bb height) is different due to a different leverage/progression curve.

 

[DanMcDan]

well ok then... fwiw, your bottom bracket height is the same. Your dynamic sag (and resulting dynamic bb height) is different due to a different leverage/progression curve.

The bike sits 2-3mm higher than what it was, I can compare as we have two rises in the house.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

The bike sits 2-3mm higher than what it was, I can compare as we have two rises in the house.

I will measure before/after to validate. I also have two rises in the house, but different sizes/configurations. Both are getting the cascade links so I'll be able to measure the 29 setup with 210x55 and the 27.5 setup with 214x60.5

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I got my link installed tonight. I measured bottom bracket height before and after and the bottom bracket height is not impacted. I have a the flattest 6'x6' area of my garage slab permanently marked. I have two marks on the floor within that specifically for transferring fit between bikes, measuring geo changes and setting up suspension. The way it I measure things is to set the bike up and measure it, then flip the bike 180 degrees and measure again. I then take the average of the two to account for the surface not being perfectly level and measurement in accuracy. I digress, my bb height is 333mm with and without the cc link.

 

[Shjay]

That’s low the M20 with 140mm forks is 336mm then 150mm forks around 342mm

 

[hind-corners]

Cascade components link does NOT fit H15 frames without modifying the link. View attachment 128065 View attachment 128066

How did you modify it?

Based on pictures hydro may have tiny bit more material vs the carbon one but I would image cascade would have tried it. Original links are same but here the shape is little bit different.

 

[cookie70]

That’s low the M20 with 140mm forks is 336mm then 150mm forks around 342mm

think he has it mullet

 

[ebsocalmtb]

think he has it mullet

That's correct, my personal rise has
Front: 160mm fork with a 29x2.5 Assegai
Rear: 214x60.5 dhx2 with a 27.5x2.5 Assegai

That’s low the M20 with 140mm forks is 336mm then 150mm forks around 342mm

Orbea is one of many brands that doesn't quite state their geometry chart in the real world. In CAD with suspension that isn't sagging under the bike's weight, and tires that do not compress, the m20 is 336 and the m10 is 342.

In the real world, I measured bb heights a few (3-4mm) shorter then orbea. My wife's m10 with 29x2.4 tires front and rear has a bb height of 334 +/-. My m10 was around 340 or so when I measured it before modifying it substantially.

I installed the cascade link on my wife's bike this morning before I left for work, I got the same 333mm before and after the cascade install. All of the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, there is always at least 1-2mm of inaccuracy when you're measuring bikes. I use levels and a home built 2x4 support frame to ensure the bike is vertical and plumb, but it's tough to measure to the nearest mm.

 

[ZXR_Power]

So if BB height remains unchanged with Cascade links that means the rear wheel comes nearer to the seat tube when the damper is fully compressed?

 

[ebsocalmtb]

So if BB height remains unchanged with Cascade links that means the rear wheel comes nearer to the seat tube when the damper is fully compressed?

100% correct. I emailed back and forth with cc and they confirmed that the link brings the tire closer to the seat tube at bottom out. They warned me that a 214x63 mm shock with their link and a 27.5 tire would result in the tire hitting the seat tube.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

So if BB height remains unchanged with Cascade links that means the rear wheel comes nearer to the seat tube when the damper is fully compressed?

Not necessarily. The link changes the arc through which the wheel travels. The wheel moves further because the linkage places the pivtos in a different place.

It's not just the linkage that determines the rear axle path. It's the whole rear end of the bike.

Edit...

Just seen that Cascade say it does so I'd go with their answer

 

[MistaCh0w]

100% correct. I emailed back and forth with cc and they confirmed that the link brings the tire closer to the seat tube at bottom out. They warned me that a 214x63 mm shock with their link and a 27.5 tire would result in the tire hitting the seat tube.

Were you able to confirm if the tire would hit the frame with you setup in the garage?

 

[ebsocalmtb]

Were you able to confirm if the tire would hit the frame with you setup in the garage?

I have my 8.5x2.5 (216x63) dhx2 now installed with a single, 2mm offset bushing and a 2.5mm stroke reducing spacer installed. The final specs are then 214x60.5 with the 27.5 rear wheel. There is no contact of the tire on the seat tube at bottom out with this setup. I'm not sure if I could run the full 63mm stroke of this shock with the cascade link and clear the seat tube. I don't have much reason to want the extra few mm of travel out of the bike as I already have ~160 - 165mm of travel with this setup as is and there is no reason to risk it.

I did get out for a very long ride on the bike this last weekend with the new cascade, long shock and mullet setup. I have to say that I am really, really impressed with the changes that the cascade link has made to the bike. The bike is so much more supple off the top that I can get the bike to sink into it's travel with just a finger press on the saddle. It sags under it's own weight a touch, which is not something that it was doing with the stock link.

Overall, the change in leverage ratio and progression really adds a lot to the bike with the setup I am running. I generally had to run more spring then I wanted to in order to avoid bottoming the bike out on jumps or large drops. I weigh around 82kg and I was running a 500-550 sprindex right at about 520lbs. Most spring rate calculators would tell me that I should have been running around 475lb spring, but even with 520 I was able to bottom the bike pretty hard on larger jumps. I've now upped the spring rate to 550lbs with the cascade link setup and the bike is still more supple at the beginning of the stroke despite the extra spring rate.

The other noticeable improvement with the cascade link is for sure the stiffness of the rear end. The bike is much more direct feeling and far easier to steer with the back end of the bike. It's easier to tell when the back is at the edge of traction and drifting, and it's easier to hold the bike in that state then it was previously. The increased stiffness in the rear end of the frame is noticeable even when just grabbing the top of the rear wheel and flexing it back and forth.

I can't say that I notice a significant (or any) difference in the dynamic geometry of the bike as a result of the cascade link. The bike doesn't seem to be riding in a different spot in it's travel, the bb height seems about the same as before the link install. Overall, it's really just the change in progression, leverage ratio and stiffness that I notice. My bike has the same amount of travel (more or less) before and after this swap... so I don't have much comment on the capability of the bike overall with the additional travel.

 

[alex_o]

I'm experiencing kinda the same thing, I'm (75kg) running 29er with stock Float X factory.
Before the cascade link I was running the 0.6 token with 175psi.
With the cascade link I initially bumped it up to 200psi to get the same SAG, it was very supple with loads of traction and very easy to get into the travel, and without harsh bottom outs, still it lost the pop that I so much like on the Rise.
Last time I rode was at 205 with 15mm of sag, got better, but still lacked pop. I have now gone up to 210psi and reduce to the 0.4 token, just need time to try it out!

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I'm experiencing kinda the same thing, I'm (75kg) running 29er with stock Float X factory.
Before the cascade link I was running the 0.6 token with 175psi.
With the cascade link I initially bumped it up to 200psi to get the same SAG, it was very supple with loads of traction and very easy to get into the travel, and without harsh bottom outs, still it lost the pop that I so much like on the Rise.
Last time I rode was at 205 with 15mm of sag, got better, but still lacked pop. I have now gone up to 210psi and reduce to the 0.4 token, just need time to try it out!

That may partially be due to the compression/rebound tuning of the float X. I find that there is a lot of shim (or to simplify it, damping) pre-load on the float X. It's definitely the kind of shock where I find that I am running the rebound and compression pretty much open and adding even a single click deadens the bike a lot.

Were you making any changes to your rebound settings as you were increasing pressure? I'm guessing not because you didn't say anything about that.