Old blokes who should know better.....

[dobbyhasfriends]

how many of those are there on here? quite a few is the impression I get..
anyway, I am definitely an 'old bloke who should know better' and having recently got back into biking after about 15 years off with only the occasional local ride, ive found that a lot has changed.. bikeparks are a big thing now but last time I was riding a lot, aston hill was the only one I had heard of and been to.

anyway, I've never jumped or dropped off unless these were natural trail features that you could occasionally session and when I bought my e-bike I had no intention of going to a bikepark..

anyway, I went to cwm rhaedr and did a few laps which was ok but I am still more of an adventure rider and didn't really enjoy it but then @Kiwi in Wales showed me around brechfa and I had a ride in the surrey hills which were both fun so now I wanna try a bikepark! ive watched a load of videos and if you cant jump I don't reckon you'll get as much out of the day at the park then if you could..
so I thought I would try it, looked on youtube, found instructions, made a kicker ramp and tried it out..

out of interest, how many out there are like me, either older or back after a break etc.. i've seen a lot of guys on youtube that seem to have come to biking late in life, they don't have any basic skills at all and I just wonder if they are the type of kids that weren't allowed a bike as a kid (yes they exist) and are now having to learn everything from scratch...

anyway, started a separate channel from the guitars and uploaded my first vid.. take a look if you have 2 mins cos I while I didnt die or anything, I wasnt exactly smooth and all jumping help and advice is welcome...

 

[Hitby]

No advice here but well done on the ramp. I could do with one as well for the same reason. A good while off the bike and I could do with a decent bike park nearby with sessionable jumps and drop offs to get my confidence levels back up. ??

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

No advice here but well done on the ramp. I could do with one as well for the same reason. A good while off the bike and I could do with a decent bike park nearby with sessionable jumps and drop offs to get my confidence levels back up. ??

cheers mate, I had the materials laying around so ran out of excuses to make one
I have a load of dirt piled up to make another but the weather is just too appalling to be shaping dirt

 

[Hitby]

I know, it's horrendous. I've got new bits on my bike but I'll only end up having an accident if I go out in this. Roll on some calmer days!

 

[Mikerb]

You can go sideways if you pull on the bars whilst your arms are bent because one arm pulls a little harder than the other and that also translates into more weight on the pedals by one foot than the other. If you approach the jump with your arms bent and chest lower to the bars, compress, then lift your chest, your arms will straighten before pulling on the bars and any pull after that will be when your arms are straight.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

You can go sideways if you pull on the bars whilst your arms are bent because one arm pulls a little harder than the other and that also translates into more weight on the pedals by one foot than the other. If you approach the jump with your arms bent and chest lower to the bars, compress, then lift your chest, your arms will straighten before pulling on the bars and any pull after that will be when your arms are straight.

aahhh, of course... I learned exactly this when I was always going off to one side trying to learn wheelies... straight arms cured it, cheers bud!

 

[miPbiP]

not a jumper (4 breaks and many bends from riding over the years so ultra cautious) - I need to do that.

 

[JaySal]

I’ve not ridden a bike off anything bigger than a kerb in 35 years. I’m just gripping on for dear life and hoping I don’t get too battered before I learn some skills.
In a moment of madness I bought a Street trials bike a few weeks ago with the intention of hopefully learning something which will be transferable to the ebike.
What is it that Mark Twain said....
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I’ve not ridden a bike off anything bigger than a kerb in 35 years. I’m just gripping on for dear life and hoping I don’t get too battered before I learn some skills.
In a moment of madness I bought a Street trials bike a few weeks ago with the intention of hopefully learning something which will be transferable to the ebike.
What is it that Mark Twain said....
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did.

Twain is right..
I would love a street trials bike but.... so many bikes, so little cash!

 

[Mikerb]

The physics of most mtb manoeuvres is simple......timing and implementation is often not !
So jumping off a small ramp is a matter of compressing the bike in the transition from flat to rise, then releasing that compression as the bike leaves the lip, or even boosting the release. Thereafter it is about body position on the bike which determines whether the bike nose plants, goes level, or creates an upward arc. The speed at which the bike hits the ramp is another factor.

In many ways a short ramp can be more difficult than bike park type jumps. The short ramp may have a transition less than the length of the bike's wheelbase whereas a bike park jump usually has a transition of a at least 2 bike lengths. On a short transition the faster you hit it the more critical the point of compression release becomes and the shorter the period between compression and release. On a longer transition the bike will naturally compress if you are central over the bb...the downside is that it is easier to lose speed due to the length of the ramp!

I mostly ride natural forest trails and weekend trail builders put in short steep ramps made up of a pile of logs and dirt on decent downhill runs. Often the pile of logs is only 1 metre high but the transition is also only about half a metre! Getting these right invariably means getting back on the bike as soon as I release or I get a nose plant! Pro built jumps in a bike park are much easier!!

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Great vid mate . We need to hook up again. What you up to tomorrow? We can concentrate on jumps if you are up for it ?There is a nice line of tabletops we can session to build on your new skill set . Bring your armour.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Great vid mate . We need to hook up again. What you up to tomorrow? We can concentrate on jumps if you are up for it ?There is a nice line of tabletops we can session to build on your new skill set . Bring your armour.

deffo at some point mate but cant tomorrow, I really have to do some boring shit like clean out the van, load if for work next week and I also unfortunately have a funeral to go to so... too much to prep so no sunday fun
I would like to go to BPW at some point soon as well ! work is killing me ATM but im hoping early march if youre up for that too
also, im editing the footage from our last ride, had to repair my mac to get the imovie working again, used to have final cut but lost it, which sucks! but worst of all my old gopro hero 2 also sucks, the picture quality is so bad compared to the newer stuff that I might get a hero 7 now

 

[ImSundee]

Most bike parks you can roll everything, give it a day and you soon will be hitting everything you can bottle

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

deffo at some point mate but cant tomorrow, I really have to do some boring shit like clean out the van, load if for work next week and I also unfortunately have a funeral to go to so... too much to prep so no sunday fun
I would like to go to BPW at some point soon as well ! work is killing me ATM but im hoping early march if youre up for that too
also, im editing the footage from our last ride, had to repair my mac to get the imovie working again, used to have final cut but lost it, which sucks! but worst of all my old gopro hero 2 also sucks, the picture quality is so bad compared to the newer stuff that I might get a hero 7 now

No worries, let me know when you have some free time and we can sync up to suit us both. As @ImSundee says you can roll a lot of the ‘features’ on the Blues and Reds but you will enjoy it more if you are ‘comfortable’ in the air.
The best thing I ever did a few years ago (Pre ebike) was to do a half day ’Beginners jump course’ at BPW. A guy named Griff took the course and was excellent. He took individual videos of each of us so he could show us what we were doing ‘right and wrong’ and had us jumping in no time. There were 2 ebikers doing the course with us and they had a huge advantage as we were sessioning runs and they were able to to 3 to 4 runs to our 1 run on the acoustics giving them loads more ‘Learning air time’. Do the morning course if you can so you can spend the afternoon practising your new skills.

 

[#lazy]

Just send it ?

 

[#lazy]

The best way for me was to ride with better riders that push your boundaries at the pace your comfortable with . Once you’ve landed a jump that you’ve been dodging you think “ what was I scared of “ !

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

The best way for me was to ride with better riders that push your boundaries at the pace your comfortable with . Once you’ve landed a jump that you’ve been dodging you think “ what was I scared of “ !

yes thats true but.. as I said I am an adventure rider, there are no jumps on my normal rides like sarn helen, strata florida, the gap, around the beacons etc.. plus, I almost always ride alone.
so I dont really have that opportunity to ride with other people, there are very very few riders and group meets local to me which is bonkers considering where I live.. either that or ive not found them yet?

 

[Gary]

I wasnt exactly smooth and all jumping help and advice is welcome...

in the vid you say...
"If anyone out there knows, why do I keep going sideways off the jump?"

Short answer is: Poor body positioning and timing mainly.
Your timing is all over the place. Your initial pre-load timing is clearly just you guessing... fair enough... but be aware of this and you'll get the hang of it quicker. It's causing you to "bounce" off the ramp a little uncontrolled rather than "launch" smoothly
and your body position is all wrong. (not so bad you're in any danger, but wrong all the same)
You're also stiff as and from the sound of your breathing you lack basic fitness, or at least jumping fitness (so riding wise, I'm guessing you probably won't have a strong core either).
don't worry though. keep practicing and you'll get there. and the more you ride stood up, hopping, manualling and jumping your core will improve hugely.
Good jumping form is all in the take off... a smooth stable well timed take off is simply way nicer/easier to control in the air.
It's not all bad though. you clearly have the confidence to have a go.

A few tips for ya:

Firstly. Put your ramp in a position where it has a slight downhill run in and where it'll have an actual downslope to land onto. This can either be a mound with the top of the landing at a similar height to the ramps take off lip or a lower longer run out creating a step down. Both of these options will teach you better manners in the air and hopefully allow you to learn to land front wheel first/both wheels at the same time. ATM you're rear wheel landing. (probably from fear... same as your current rearwards body position).
Wet grass is a terrible rolling surface so will be robbing you of rolling speed towards the ramp. You definitely don't want to be pedalling towards a ramp while learning so try to find a harder surface and faster rolling speed (inflate your tyres harder too)

When riding
Tip #1 look further ahead. This includes your run up, take off AND landing. Once you're proficient, stable and confident it'll no longer be so important. But for now actively force yourself to look further ahead.
Tip #2 when you squat with your legs you're pushing your arse (and whole COG) further rearwards than you need to.
Tip #3 STOP pre-loading so hard until you have your timing spot on.
Tip #4 STOP pulling UP... Pulling up does have it's place. but it's an advanced maneouver so leave it alone for now.
Tip #5 Baby steps... Rome wasn't... ...you're old, you know the rest

There's way more than that but without meeting you in person (and seeing if you even understand the advice/issues) it's not really worth going into massive detail

How old are you BTW?

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

in the vid you say...
"If anyone out there knows, why do I keep going sideways off the jump?"

Short answer is: Poor body positioning and timing mainly.
Your timing is all over the place. Your initial pre-load timing is clearly just you guessing... fair enough... but be aware of this and you'll get the hang of it quicker. It's causing you to "bounce" off the ramp a little uncontrolled rather than "launch" smoothly
and your body position is all wrong. (not so bad you're in any danger, but wrong all the same)
You're also stiff as and from the sound of your breathing you lack basic fitness, or at least jumping fitness (so riding wise, I'm guessing you probably won't have a strong core either).
don't worry though. keep practicing and you'll get there. and the more you ride stood up, hopping, manualling and jumping your core will improve hugely.
Good jumping form is all in the take off... a smooth stable well timed take off is simply way nicer/easier to control in the air.
It's not all bad though. you clearly have the confidence to have a go.

A few tips for ya:

Firstly. Put your ramp in a position where it has a slight downhill run in and where it'll have an actual downslope to land onto. This can either be a mound with the top of the landing at a similar height to the ramps take off lip or a lower longer run out creating a step down. Both of these options will teach you better manners in the air and hopefully allow you to learn to land front wheel first/both wheels at the same time. ATM you're rear wheel landing. (probably from fear... same as your current rearwards body position).
Wet grass is a terrible rolling surface so will be robbing you of rolling speed towards the ramp. You definitely don't want to be pedalling towards a ramp while learning so try to find a harder surface and faster rolling speed (inflate your tyres harder too)

When riding
Tip #1 look further ahead. This includes your run up, take off AND landing. Once you're proficient, stable and confident it'll no longer be so important. But for now actively force yourself to look further ahead.
Tip #2 when you squat with your legs you're pushing your arse (and whole COG) further rearwards than you need to.
Tip #3 STOP pre-loading so hard until you have your timing spot on.
Tip #4 STOP pulling UP... Pulling up does have it's place. but it's an advanced maneouver so leave it alone for now.
Tip #5 Baby steps... Rome wasn't... ...you're old, you know the rest

There's way more than that but without meeting you in person (and seeing if you even understand the advice/issues) it's not really worth going into massive detail

How old are you BTW?

lot of good tips there @Gary - cheers! yes the run up isnt what it could be, its my lawn that is totally saturated right now so getting speed is hard, there simply isnt anywhere else unless I throw the ramp in the van.. I have a downhill run up I can use but I have to clear it to ride first, which I will do.
yea ok got it with the tips.. I know for sure that almost every time I jumped it, the take off and landing was different and I was trying different times to preload etc but wasnt really happy with any of the landings unless it was 2 wheels at once which was way less harsh than rear wheel.
for tip 2 - so I should be further over the front, in the attack position still ?
so the answer to what I shoudl learn next is.. how to do that jump properly I guess

im 49 mate and alarmingly close to 50

 

[Gary]

for tip 2 - so I should be further over the front

No. Neutral

 

[Gary]

im 49 mate and alarmingly close to 50

I'll be 50 in May

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'll be 50 in May

50 in less than 4 weeks here.. that makes @Gary the youngster .. From hence forth, you shall be known as "The child Gary" ..

Look out lady's of the world .. he'll be adding "distinguished" to his repertoire of attractiveness ..

Great thread @dobbyhasfriends. We can all learn to jump with the aid of a volunteer crash test dummy !

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

No. Neutral

well well... when im riding and when I was making that video I actually thought I was in a neutral position on the bike apart from the squash so looks like I have some back to basics learning to do...

’Beginners jump course’ at BPW.

I went to book this and they are all booked until april !

 

[mak]

An old man making a bmx ramp for his own personal use, ive never seen anything so ridiculous, nearly as bad as me searching out trails in the woods that kids have built and having a massive off on a burm . At least no one was there to suck up my dignity .
Cracking vid mate and stay forever young, very jelouse of your house and surroundings, I think there's a story there

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

An old man making a bmx ramp for his own personal use, ive never seen anything so ridiculous, nearly as bad as me searching out trails in the woods that kids have built and having a massive off on a burm . At least no one was there to suck up my dignity .
Cracking vid mate and stay forever young, very jelouse of your house and surroundings, I think there's a story there

done that as well mate, cleaned up a good portion of trail with my face

house is for sale soon ! comes complete with 150m2 workshop and Airbnb let

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

well well... when im riding and when I was making that video I actually thought I was in a neutral position on the bike apart from the squash so looks like I have some back to basics learning to do...


I went to book this and they are all booked until april !

 

[Gary]

well well... when im riding and when I was making that video I actually thought I was in a neutral position on the bike apart from the squash so looks like I have some back to basics learning to do...

Your position isn't actually too far off so shouldn't be too difficult to correct. But ATM it is massively inconsistent.

 

[B1rdie]

Ask me nothing about jumping, but as expert crash survivor I would care to be able to run and jump off such ramp without a bike to save my knees and also roll over the shoulder after the jump jiujitsu style if I depended on my arms and hands for a living
I built ramp like that ten years ago, a little more tall, like 3 ft, but with a sloped landing, was 50 years old then, then built a 10 ft tall roll in to get enough speed to hit it, but ended undoing it all in fear a real kid might get hurt.
Later on I learned superman otb/scorpion landing while trying to manual at high speed.
Now I get my shot of adrenalin from slow speed balance acts only, both up and down natural terrain.

 

[Mikerb]

pfffff...50!!! Im 69 and still hitting ( often literally!) whatever the trail throws at me.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

@Gary - had another go today, it felt way way better and I tried to land front wheel first whenever I wanted and flat whenever I wanted.. I tried pop/no pop and started to get the hang of the difference in take off's. overall im happy with today and if anyone has 5 minutes to watch and help me take the next step (even if its building a bigger, better ramp) then I would appreciate it!