New Bosch 2022 Motor System (Bosch Smart System) Announced

[Josepma]

It is an easy question whether or not there is a new engine because it is not clear to me



Will there be a new Drive Unit?
Answer: Yes, it will be a new one
Performance Line CX. This Drive Unit
will be the first engine of the system
intelligent.
How is Performance different
Line CX AM22 of the current model?
Answer: Performance wise, the
Performance Line CX for the system
smart is identical to the models
current, but has other takes for the
connecting the cables and connectors
New development. The current model is
will remain unchanged.

 

[H.E.]

Seems to be 36V

Source: eBike-Akkus: hohe Reichweite, geringes Gewicht, einfaches Laden

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

It is an easy question whether or not there is a new engine because it is not clear to me



Will there be a new Drive Unit?
Answer: Yes, it will be a new one
Performance Line CX. This Drive Unit
will be the first engine of the system
intelligent.
How is Performance different
Line CX AM22 of the current model?
Answer: Performance wise, the
Performance Line CX for the system
smart is identical to the models
current, but has other takes for the
connecting the cables and connectors
New development. The current model is
will remain unchanged.

Drive unit has identical performance, gearing and all drive / performance hardware the same, but, new electrical connectors so it fits with the new controller / Kiox / battery etc.

So yes technically it is new, but only so it works with the new peripherals. There are no performance changes or improvements.

 

[stiv674]

Blimey, so bikes fitted with the new 750Wh battery could be nudging 26kg...

Maybe I'm in a minority but I prefer the smaller battery and range extender route.

 

[RickBullotta]

Bosch eBike Systems unveils new smart system and vision for e-mobility

Headlines:

• New 750Wh battery
• New Kiox 300 Display
• New Handle Remote Controller
• New App to allow custom modes based on rider requirements
• None of this is backwards compatible, its an all new system with new connectors

• The new smart system combines digital developments and significant hardware upgrades to further enhance the eBike riding experience.
• Bosch introduces a new large capacity battery, LED control unit and streamlined Kiox display.
• The new Flow App allows for unparalleled customisation of the riding experience and game-changing over-the-air updates.

The most important feature may perhaps be OTA updates. That was a huge fail on Bosch's part to require dealer visits (and fees) for firmware and software updates.

 

[Welh]

Seems to be 36V

View attachment 70282

Source: eBike-Akkus: hohe Reichweite, geringes Gewicht, einfaches Laden

What would be the benefit if the battery is 48V?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Blimey, so bikes fitted with the new 750Wh battery could be nudging 26kg...

Maybe I'm in a minority but I prefer the smaller battery and range extender route.

As seems to be the fashion - they keep using heavier cells each time a company makes a larger battery ..

500wh Battery : 349mm - 2.9 kg
625wh Battery : + 125wh + 67 mm + 600g
750wh Battery : + 125wh + 68 mm + 900g !

 

[Timochka69]

What would be the benefit if the battery is 48V?

You would get the same output wattage at lower current. Most likely less losses transferring current.

 

[H.E.]

What would be the benefit if the battery is 48V?

There where rumors that bosch will go 48V.
Anyway no problems with 36V Bosch has an effektive system.
Think the motor will be quite similar, dont really understand why they made a different
charging interface and say this system will not be able to use dual battery.
Would make much more sense to me if you could use 500/625 powertubes with adapters in
the 750 tube.

 

[knut7]

Is new CX motor and 750Wh battery still 36Volts?
If it is 48V, thats the answer why is not backwards compatible.

We asked whether it was 36V or 48V, unfortunately they didn't answer.

But they did answer our question about changes, that has been published previously in this thread. There are no changes to the motor hardware. I'm guessing that means it's still 36V. A 48V motor would require different gearing I assume. Motor rotation speed increases with Voltage.

Also, using the most energy dense cells of today, the only way to get 750 Wh is to go 36V: 60 cells * 3,6V * 3,5Ah = 756Wh

 

[Kolskis]

So... if you can buy good old Bosch 2021 system in good price, go for it! Isn't worth to wait to get this poor purion ;-) Especially the new bikes will be a 20% up priced...

 

[BigLee]

Pity the 625wh battery can't still be used, I've a spare that's handy for bike park days ? otherwise it all looks great imo ?

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

Am I the only one preferring the old Purion over the new controller? The Purion still seems to be easier to use and then it has the speedometer too without the need for an extra display. The new controller isn't exactly minimalistic.

 

[ggx]

hope they have solved connectivity issues from the previous system

 

[Doomanic]

Am I the only one preferring the old Purion over the new controller?

No, you're not. All the Purion needs is battery percentage rather than bars and it would be perfect,

 

[JetSetDemo]

Exciting to see things keep developing. I must say I’ve been disappointed with the EP8 range after I switched to a new bike a few months ago and miss the 700w from my Levo.

I can’t wait to see what hits next year with this 750w system, the Bosch is a great motor.

As for the pace at which developments create obsolescence I think that’s part of the territory with new technology, we all want the next best thing and thats what the market constantly try’s to deliver.

we have to chose if it’s enough each time to buy in to the next best thing.

 

[GrandesRoues]

The battery is the same than the actual 625Wh, just more cells (of the same type).
So more lenght (will not fit in my backpack like my spare 625), and much more weight.
The only thing interesting in this new system is the modes customisation.

 

[stratosa]

We asked whether it was 36V or 48V, unfortunately they didn't answer.

But they did answer our question about changes, that has been published previously in this thread. There are no changes to the motor hardware. I'm guessing that means it's still 36V. A 48V motor would require different gearing I assume. Motor rotation speed increases with Voltage.

Also, using the most energy dense cells of today, the only way to get 750 Wh is to go 36V: 60 cells * 3,6V * 3,5Ah = 756Wh

It still is 36V.

 

[Akelu]

To make the motor that isn’t even 2 years old effectively obsolete is quite an achievement.

Considering the motor is the same hardware, i don't think this is the case. You just need to take it to shop for motor firmware update. Not that big a deal. I can't see any reason why this motor wont get any future performance updates as the new model, considering they are identical drive wise.

 

[Waynemarlow]

You would get the same output wattage at lower current. Most likely less losses transferring current.

Less heat loss due to the lower amps used, higher cadence levels without having to resort to computer optimisation ( meaning better range ) and a few other incrementals such as better use of the new higher density 21700 cells now available ( 39 cells v 60 18650 cells )

Bafang now seem to be pushing the 48 volt route, Mahle is already 48 volts, will 2 years time be the big shift to a Bosch 48 volt motor ?

 

[Hamina]

I don't fully understand. First you ask for custom modes, nicer displays and controller. When they make it by changing the drive unit electronics you cry like a baby for backward compatibility. Has there been some promises for this?

Luckily there's a lot of old bikes with current setup and the rest can buy the both generations to really enjoy Bosch products.

Range extenders are marginal business.

I think this was good step straight to year 2021. I have old GEN4 and don't feel bad for it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

The new controller isn't exactly minimalistic.

It needs to be large to hold the new 750wh battery It just needs a few more buttons on it or maybe a full size keyboard ?

Lets make it larger than most displays - but not have a display ... ?

All the Purion needs is battery percentage rather than bars and it would be perfect,

And tactile/haptic buttons so you can feel if you've actually pressed them or not.

And a shape which enables you to mount it at the angle you desire in the position you desire.

And a smaller screen - or little raised rubber bumper bars if it has to bet that large.

And a slide out Specialized swat took kit as it's large enough to accommodate it.

 

[apac]

It is an easy question whether or not there is a new engine because it is not clear to me



Will there be a new Drive Unit?
Answer: Yes, it will be a new one
Performance Line CX. This Drive Unit
will be the first engine of the system
intelligent.
How is Performance different
Line CX AM22 of the current model?
Answer: Performance wise, the
Performance Line CX for the system
smart is identical to the models
current, but has other takes for the
connecting the cables and connectors
New development. The current model is
will remain unchanged.

any new materials being used?.. no
any efficiency gains?.. no
any peak power improvement?.. no
any harder wearing inner parts?..no
any weight savings?.. no
any sound differences?.. no
any cadence differences?.. no

So want changes/enhancements has the "motor system" been given? Am I right or wrong?

sorry, Im feeling pessimistic.

New screen, more cells, different software? Yes??? What about the motor?

 

[Mteam]

How does the Bosch compare to the Brose system for pedalling resistance once your over the speed limit - I ride with friends who have Cube Stereo & Spec Levo's - the Cube gets dropped big time once over the 15mph limit? Looks like the mechanics are the same for this Bosch upgrade?

Your mate with the cube is in the wrong gear/unfit compared to the others. There is no drag from the motor on the bosch when over the motor cutout speed.

 

[Zimmerframe]

any new materials being used?.. no
any efficiency gains?.. no
any peak power improvement?.. no
any harder wearing inner parts?..no
any weight savings?.. no
any sound differences?.. no
any cadence differences?.. no

So want changes/enhancements has the "motor system" been given? Am I right or wrong?

sorry, Im feeling pessimistic.

New screen, more cells, different software? Yes??? What about the motor?

Hey, If Spesh can say a motor is new and call it a 2.2 when it's exactly the same as the 2.1 has been for the previous 6 months, then Bosch can say exactly the same motor is new too.. Though it does sound like maybe they've added/enabled bluetooth in the motor and possibly changed firmware only settings to now be software configurable settings. So, some new boards, but not mechanical changes.

 

[Stoffel]

No, you're not. All the Purion needs is battery percentage rather than bars and it would be perfect,

I agree, all I would like is a percentage display instead of bars.

I’ve got no interest in phaffing about tweaking settings with an app, and while more range is appealing I think 625wh is a good balance of range/weight ratio. If I wanted the odd epic day out then I’d go the whole hog and buy a spare battery instead of carrying extra weight around all the time.

I’m more than happy with the bike I bought a month ago and no doubt this new package will stick another 10% on the price of the already overpriced bikes fitted with it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Your mate with the cube is in the wrong gear/unfit compared to the others. There is no drag from the motor on the bosch when over the motor cutout speed.

Totally. The Gen4 is zero draggy (Still a pig with 25kg's of bike and tractor tyres, but you can still really push on if you accelerate past the limit, it drops off smoothly and kind of pushes you over it). But then the Brose is pretty much Zero draggy (but has a much harsher cut off). Maybe he has draggier tyres, draggy brakes or all the Brose's are de-restricted ?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hold up, I'm confused!!

This new system allows the firmware to be updated over the air and the wiring has been reworked. Plus the release of a 750wh battery and the scope to allow the motor perameters to be adjusted via the app.

Doesn't it stand to reason that Bosch will eventually release a firmware update to increase the maximum current flow from the battery, thereby increasing the newton meters of torque?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Hold up, I'm confused!!

This new system allows the firmware to be updated over the air and the wiring has been reworked. Plus the release of a 750wh battery and the scope to allow the motor perameters to be adjusted via the app.

Doesn't it stand to reason that Bosch will eventually release a firmware update to increase the maximum current flow from the battery, thereby increasing the newton meters of torque?

I think it's more likely that as they've changed the boards in the motor, they've made other changes at the same time on how things communicate and work together - possibly improving efficiency and communication protocols between battery management systems and the motor . So, they've changed the connectors so that only "compatible" items can be used with the "bes3" ? configuration. Presumably they looked at making things backwards compatible, but made the decision that it wouldn't work, therefore, use different connections to avoid issues down the line. They might also be improved connections which are more weatherproof for instance.

We're still very much in a growing phase, you can't keep making things backwards compatible because the technological changes don't allow mowing forwards and legacy compatibility. Plus, the new controller obviously has star link satellite built into it ..

 

[The EMF]

How is the old motor and system effectively obsolete?

Just because it is not the latest model, and not upgradable to the latest model, that does not render it obsolete.
My 2020 Gen4 will continue to work just the same as when I bought it, despite there being a newer model.
Just the same as my Lyrik continues to function despite the introduction of a Zeb, and my 2020 Whyte works just the same despite the introduction of 2021 and 2022 models.

Completely agree…..if I need more range I’d plumb for a spare battery
rather than a new model. I bought the bike because it’s mechanically relatively simple to service and hopefully when or if I require attention to the motor after the warranty period has expired there will be independent establishments to carry out the work.