Musings on ebike hate.

[Zero cool]

I always wonder if the reason there is more hate for e-bikes in the US compared to UK and Europe is because in the UK/EU they’re limited to about 15.5mph compared to 20mph in the US. Honestly if people were blasting around our local trail centres at 20mph I’d probably be more keen to restrict where they can go.
Whereas 15.5mph is a speed that is much more easily matched by pedal power alone (if not uphill).

I know that there are the purists, haters, jealous and grumpy people on this side of the pond that don’t like them, but in the US it seems much worse.

 

[Weeksy]

I don't think there's anything like the hate there once was. However the ebike crowd don't help themselves at times with some of the preaching about how their fitness hasn't suffered
My Rise has been off the trails for a month and when jumping on my Trek Fuel time and time again i've realised just how much i'd lost... and now trying to re-gain. It's more than you think.

However i think that's only part of it, it's also the attitudes at times of some Ebikers on the trails. But any trailcenter location now in the UK is i'd day more than 50% Eeb, possibly at times in adults up to 75% maybe 80% at places like Forest of Dean, it's not common to see a grown-up on a manual unless they're doing it with their kids.

 

[Rockhopper70]

I’ll be controversial here, and including a swathe of assumption and direct experiences, as I think a lot a full-fat riders might be new to the sport and perhaps don’t appreciate the nuances and etiquette of riding and interacting with non-cyclists.
Im still on leg powered but if you go to a trail centre, Llandegla for example, some of the full fatters really are quite impatient for you to get out of their way on climbs. Inevitably, they then hold you up on the downs, and will not move aside, probably because they can’t on their 50lb steamrollers.
I see it also on shared use paths, mainly canal banks local to where I walk. They come up at you from behind and pass at full speed at their inevitably derestricted top speeds and it’s quite unnerving, even looking at them from a cyclist point of view. There seems to be no thought for other trail or path users.
And some think it’s hilarious to ride up the designated down trails, to have another go. Lolz.

 

[Weeksy]

I’ll be controversial here, and including a swathe of assumption and direct experiences, as I think a lot a full-fat riders might be new to the sport and perhaps don’t appreciate the nuances and etiquette of riding and interacting with non-cyclists.
Im still on leg powered but if you go to a trail centre, Llandegla for example, some of the full fatters really are quite impatient for you to get out of their way on climbs. Inevitably, they then hold you up on the downs, and will not move aside, probably because they can’t on their 50lb steamrollers.
I see it also on shared use paths, mainly canal banks local to where I walk. They come up at you from behind and pass at full speed at their inevitably derestricted top speeds and it’s quite unnerving, even looking at them from a cyclist point of view. There seems to be no thought for other trail or path users.
And some think it’s hilarious to ride up the designated down trails, to have another go. Lolz.

I thought you said you were going to be controversial ?

 

[Rockhopper70]

I thought you said you were going to be controversial ?

I suspect you might be less triggered, wait till the Amflow riders read what I wrote.

 

[Doomanic]

If you want to see true eBike hate go on to the US forums. The level of vitriol on there will give you an insight as to why there's so much opposition across the pond.

 

[Kevjob51]

here in America there is a lot of pride and ego. I have been riding since 1991 and every new invention the "purists" aka a hole gatekeepers whine about its cheating. Front suspension then full suspension then disc brakes then droppers. Every single hater I have ever encountered has never ridden one but also have a concrete opinion on what they are.

 

[Tim1023]

Mentioning that it is worse in the US made me think about this article about cultures that have extrinsic vs intrinsic values. People in the US being on average more extrinsic would fit the pattern you mention. Not that I'm really qualified to say.

I just try to follow the principle of "don't be the arsehole" (mostly successfully!) When I pass pedestrians on a ride, I give them an especially friendly "Moin!" or "Guten Morgen (Hamburg) to keep the politeness average of MTBers up. Where I ride, it's mostly walkers vs MTBers rather than e vs non-e

p.s. I don't necessarily recommend reading the article! It's pretty depressing, especially given the current situation in the US.

 

[Weeksy]

I suspect you might be less triggered, wait till the Amflow riders read what I wrote.

They've learned to read ?

 

[JP-NZ]

If you want to see true eBike hate go on to the US forums. The level of vitriol on there will give you an insight as to why there's so much opposition across the pond.

Pinkbike is still bad, but times are a changing. Nearly everytime you see a negative comment over there its from a poster with a US flag. I have no idea why that is, probably the same reason most dislike electric cars?

Over here in New Zealand MTB's are all looked at the same electric or not. In fact I probably see more EMTB's on the trails than I do normal bikes. NZ is very good at early adoption of technology

 

[DirkWisely]

I’ll be controversial here, and including a swathe of assumption and direct experiences, as I think a lot a full-fat riders might be new to the sport and perhaps don’t appreciate the nuances and etiquette of riding and interacting with non-cyclists.
Im still on leg powered but if you go to a trail centre, Llandegla for example, some of the full fatters really are quite impatient for you to get out of their way on climbs. Inevitably, they then hold you up on the downs, and will not move aside, probably because they can’t on their 50lb steamrollers.

I find that most slower riders move out of the way when there's a decent spot for it, but I do think some of the analogue riders don't want to let you pass because they're being churlish. Personally, I let faster riders pass downhill or uphill. In fact, on the downhill I get over if I even hear another rider behind me, because I'm not that fast, and most people are faster.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Pinkbike is still bad, but times are a changing. Nearly everytime you see a negative comment over there its from a poster with a US flag. I have no idea why that is, probably the same reason most dislike electric cars?

Over here in New Zealand MTB's are all looked at the same electric or not. In fact I probably see more EMTB's on the trails than I do normal bikes. NZ is very good at early adoption of technology

Yup. If anything there’s somewhat playful “hate” thrown around.

Where I ride most of the time, you get some bloke with a big grin on his face shouting “bloody ebikers!” as you pass - mostly because they either decided to ride analogue today or they haven’t gotten around to buying an eBike yet.

I was one of them up until the middle of last year.

I think most feel the same way about idiots - but they can be meat powered or electric…or more often behind the wheel of a car.

 

[Bman]

MTBR.com is where the worst offenders congregate. They (the same few for years) hang out in the e-bike sub-forum hurling the same childish insults on every thread. When asked why they're even there, they claim the thread was under some "might be of interest to you" front page. Well I get these same notices in lots of things in which I have no interest, but I don't go in there and start insulting the people and activities that might be in there. It's not maddening, just annoying af...

 

[cozzy]

MTBR.com is where the worst offenders congregate. They (the same few for years) hang out in the e-bike sub-forum hurling the same childish insults on every thread. When asked why they're even there, they claim the thread was under some "might be of interest to you" front page. Well I get these same notices in lots of things in which I have no interest, but I don't go in there and start insulting the people and activities that might be in there. It's not maddening, just annoying af...

To be fair i troll pinkbike complaining about flintstone bikes and they should add an analogue filter, like they have an ebike filter, so my sensitive eyes dont have to read about obsolete bicycles when i click on an article i have no interest in.

 

[ckkone]

What hate?

 

[RustyIron]

I always wonder if the reason there is more hate for e-bikes in the US compared to UK and Europe is because in the UK/EU they’re limited to about 15.5mph compared to 20mph in the US.

Maybe it's perspective. From where I sit here at my desk, the Englishmen seem to always be upset about something. But there are more Englishmen here than Yanks, so the data set might skew the results. I ride with mostly Yanks, and the trails I like are more in the wilderness rather than "local trail centers." So yeah, my perspective is distorted.

Here's my observation whether it's riding, hiking, or climbing. The further you are into the wilderness, the cooler the people tend to be. The closer you are to the asphalt parking lot, the more likely it is that you'll run into d-bags. You're more likely to run into the "toe-watchers" staring down at their shoes, the pampered Karens who think that mountain bike riders are filthy heathens, and the "Short Pen-15 Men" who are embarrassed by their lack of fitness and who seem to think we're there to steal their women. Actually, they're right. We are there to steal their women, so they are entirely justified in hating us. There are also angry gravel bike riders, all dressed up in their colorful spandex ladyboy outfits. They're just angry because their scrawny physiques leave them shivering like a chihuahua in a snowstorm. One thing's for sure, if someone has a scowl on their face and doesn't return our friendly greetings, I'm going to make jokes about them.

The nicest people on the trail seem to be the old folks who are out there solo, and the youngsters. They're just out there to have fun and don't care what anyone else thinks about it.

 

[Kevjob51]

MTBR.com is where the worst offenders congregate. They (the same few for years) hang out in the e-bike sub-forum hurling the same childish insults on every thread. When asked why they're even there, they claim the thread was under some "might be of interest to you" front page. Well I get these same notices in lots of things in which I have no interest, but I don't go in there and start insulting the people and activities that might be in there. It's not maddening, just annoying af...

I found this site due the vitriol on mtbr over embt. Irony being Francis who started mtbr reviews and rides emtb now. Simpletons that think cause they think one way about riding for fitness all else are wrong by default.

Like big whoop they ride a bicycle uphill faster and slower than some. I tried an SC Bullit in the parking lot on trailhead as I was curious and it was not at all what I thought in the best way possible. Every single hater has never ridden one and has a concrete opinion on what they are or aren't

 

[WatermanJim]

Pinkbike is ridiculous with the eHate. its like we just went back 8 years with the same comments about wrecking trails and get a motorcycle. Like others have said its angry people entertaining themselves. Imo its all nonsense as i have never ever had a problem nor have heard of a problem on the trails.

ebikes causing more problems on the trails than regular bikes is 100% fiction.

 

[WatermanJim]

eHate is not a US thing and the higher limit has nothing to do with it imo.
Everyone needs to stop with the labels, the finger pointing and the sociopathic anger projection.
Blame the global media's non-stop horror show for creating anger and encouraging open hostility between people.

 

[irie]

...
Everyone needs to stop with the labels, the finger pointing and the sociopathic anger projection.
Blame the global media's non-stop horror show for creating anger and encouraging open hostility between people.

Agree.

(Social) media encourages people to take sides and feeds on intolerant behaviour between the sides.

 

[RustyMTB]

Can't say I've experienced much in the way of actual hate here in the UK. What you do see is an increasing amount of public attention towards kids haring about on Surrons & delivery riders burning around town on cheapy throttle conversions. This is fuelled by the press who lump them all together as one thing, failing to make the distinction between those & our thing. Same with cheap Aliexpress battery fires.

The cops have been cracking down on dodgy throttle conversion bikes here lately but this has been largely in the cities but the coverage more or less just reports ebikes seized & public opinion follows suit.

I always understood trail access was more restrictive in the US & that was a source of conflict but I don't watch closely so I'm open to correction. Personally, I couldn't give a toss who rides what, it's all Gucci out there in the gnar.

 

[Doomanic]

 

[Renton_Yorkshire]

I don't think there's anything like the hate there once was. However the ebike crowd don't help themselves at times with some of the preaching about how their fitness hasn't suffered
My Rise has been off the trails for a month and when jumping on my Trek Fuel time and time again i've realised just how much i'd lost... and now trying to re-gain. It's more than you think.

However i think that's only part of it, it's also the attitudes at times of some Ebikers on the trails. But any trailcenter location now in the UK is i'd day more than 50% Eeb, possibly at times in adults up to 75% maybe 80% at places like Forest of Dean, it's not common to see a grown-up on a manual unless they're doing it with their kids.

Agree re the amount of fitness you don't realise you've lost, until you get back on a manual.

Any time I'm out with Mrs Renton who doesn't have electric, I switch to the Fuel, and for the first ten mins it feels as if the brakes are binding

 

[El Grifo]

Wow !! All of these exotic, weird and obscure terms for bikers and their bikes.
You girlies must spend hours thinking them up !!
I almost feel like I am missing out.
Here in the Spanish Territories, we just go out and ride our MTB's and EMTB's happily and side by side !
Really cannot understand what the fuss is all about.
Some sort of underlying frustration problem perhaps ?

 

[The Hodge]

we just go out and ride our MTB's and EMTB's

Is the correct terminology ️

 

[El Grifo]

Yep! English was always my strong point.
What am I missing here ??

Is the correct terminology ️

 

[The Hodge]

Yep! English was always my strong point.
What am I missing here ??

Short term memory retention perhaps? ..It was you after all who was critical of "All these exotic , weird and obscure terms for bikers and their bikes .."
I was merely agreeing with you

 

[El Grifo]

Ah !! That explains.
It was not clear
What a bunch of Old Women they are !

Short term memory retention perhaps? ..It was you after all who was critical of "All these exotic , weird and obscure terms for bikers and their bikes .."
I was merely agreeing with you

Ha

 

[El Grifo]

Do you suffer from all those anxious pangs and worries.
Do you have a lexicon of absurd childish terms to describe riders and bikes Hodge.
I imagine you are like me.
Get on yer bike, head out into the countryside and leave all that shit behind !!
Am I right ??

 

[Plummet]

Virtually no E hate on the trail in NZ.

Lots on mtbr.com.

I think its mostly the pedal guys who have never been passed by someone less fit than them in their life and some fat newbie woman blazes passed on an ebike them uphill upsets their fragile ego's!

"How dare they go faster than me uphill!"

Then there is the "you must earn your turns" crowd. The premise here is that mtb, in there minds, must have a component of paint or suffering to get you to the top of that hill. If you do not suffer enough, you do not deserve the down. Essentially If of you exceed a pre-set level of acceptable fun that is not acceptable. I call these people the fun police wandering around administering derision if the preset levels of fun are exceeded.

Then there's the "it's a motorcycle, it's a motorcycle" crew. Even thought the governments of the world have all classified them as assisted bicycles.