Motor failures: Am I making a mistake buying an eMTB?

[Loamranger]

PumpinIron, yes you could upgrade the Yari with a Push ACS3 coil kit. Damper could also be upgraded to 2.1 or another make of damper. This would make it into a Lyric coil ?

 

[R120]

There are more aftermarket soloutions for the Bosch, such as @Bearing Man

 

[RickBullotta]

Don't forget batteries as well - my Shimano battery deteriorated MUCH more quickly than either Pivot or Shimano claimed it would, and neither those to warranty it or stand behind it. $500 to replace it.

 

[EMTBehave]

No they are not. They used to have a joint venture with Siemens for white goods, but they are very much two different companies which otherwise have nothing to do with one another.

Ok I was mistaken with the ownership, it was a significant join venture which also tells you something as they would not do any significant joint venture that didn't meet their own quality standards. The rest of my post still stands.

 

[jerry]

Actually Bosch, Simens, Neff, Gagenau and other appliance brands are all part of the BSH group which is a subsidiary of Bosch that focus's on white goods. I have quite a lot of business dealing with them.

I believe Siemens (as in medialc, industrial, mobile etc etc) itself is a separate company, its just the appliance brand that is part of BSH.

We're going off-topic, but for the record: Siemens have sold their share in BSH 7 years ago to Bosch. The only thing Siemens still does, is lend their name to the products (which was more a marketing-oriented decision).

Other than that, I agree on the quality of both company's products. This seems to be corraborated by whitegoods repair shops, claiming they themselves would only buy Bosch/siemens or Miele. They'd steer away from AEG, Whirlpool, etc.

I preferred Bosch because of their experience in mechanic/electronics; as wel as being obiquitous, and therefor maintenance options would be more easily found and less fenced off than Shimano or Brose.

 

[R120]

With white goods, there is Miele, and then there's the rest. BSH group stuff is good quality, but really its the equivalent of VW in the car industry.

A lot of the other brands have sold the rights off to use their names in different parts fo the world.

 

[Goughy75]

My Giant Trance e3 has now done 1046 miles. No problem with the Motor (Yamaha). Actually the bike has been pretty much problem free ?

 

[boBE]

I also read a Ford Mustang forum and if you believe many of the posts you will expect every new Mustang V8 to fail shortly. The facts are very different, with millions of these engines performing as expected. My guess is the facts on e-bike motors are the same.

 

[PumpinIron]

I also read a Ford Mustang forum and if you believe many of the posts you will expect every new Mustang V8 to fail shortly. The facts are very different, with millions of these engines performing as expected. My guess is the facts on e-bike motors are the same.

So true, the same can be said about my C6 ZO6 Corvette.

If you believed the internet and the forums, LS7s are ticking time bombs and should be avoided like the plague. Still, never had any issues with mine.

It’s so hard to separate internet chatter from reality.

 

[thebarber]

WELL my 'Fistmaster 9000 with the real rape cry' bust tother nite while I was going ten/nowt in the tickle room and no mention of it on the forums.
I guess y don't always get what you pay for eh!?!?!

 

[HORSPWR]

One thing worth pointing out, is that Specilized is the only brand that officially (not Brose, so this doesn't apply to other brands using the motor) allow dealers to hold spare motors in stock, and the dealers discretion to replace the motor - this is why shops in the uk like Berkshire Cycles can do same day motor swaps.

Shimano and Bosch genrally require the motor to be sent back to them to be assessed before being replaced, though some dealers have managed to get spare motors, or swapped them out of other bikes to help people, but this is not the norm.

They have to keep a pallet of spare motors in stock because they blow through them so fast.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Let me preface this by saying that I've been riding mountain bikes a long time, but recently I had my first eMTB experience with both a Specialized Turbo Levo and a Trek Rail 7.

I've been considering purchasing either an S-Works Turbo Levo or a Trek Rail 9.9.

Money isn't an issue, but what is an issue is the amount of motor failures I keep reading about, particularly with Specialized.

To spend this amount of money on a bike and have the motor failing all the time seems very, very discouraging.

I liked both bikes, but the Specialized spoke to me more. However, everyone I talk to is telling me to avoid Specialized like the plague, since the motors are a terrible design (belt driven) and go bad all the time.

I've heard the most recent Bosch motors are significantly better, so this has me leaning towards the Trek, simply for more reliability.

Can anyone provide any input? It's hard to tell how many people out there are enjoying their eMTBs without motor issues, especially when those people likely rarely chime in online, and instead all we read about is the bad experiences.

I'm wondering if I'm too early to the game, and maybe they simply having had eMTBs for long enough, and therefore haven't worked out all the reliability issues with the motors.

Thanks for any input / advice

High Rock Ruti

2019 Turbo Levo S works, full refund after the fourth motor failure in less than a 1000 miles. 3 belts failed and 1 sprag clutch. I bought the 2020 Trek Rail 9.8, the shop threw in the fancy damper from the 9.9, and going to install the 2021 air spring, The Levo is just plane beautiful to look at, it rides really well, wish they would utilize a DW link rear suspension configuration, the Pivot shuttle has noticeably better rear suspension, stays on the ground.

The Trek Rail 9.8 handles better than the Levo by small margin, however to notice that better handling speed is required, as reviewed the Rail is little sluggish at slow speed, a little. The extra torque of the Brose can be felt however the Bosch has it's torque at slower peddle speeds, feels stronger at slower less cadences.

Good Luck with this HUGE LUXURY PROBLEM!

 

[EMTBehave]

I also read a Ford Mustang forum and if you believe many of the posts you will expect every new Mustang V8 to fail shortly. The facts are very different, with millions of these engines performing as expected. My guess is the facts on e-bike motors are the same.

There is an overwhelmingly greater number of Specialized motor failure stories... to the point where they now have a reputation for it on every bike forum I have read. That doesn't happen for no reason or just on "hearsay". The fact people are posting in this thread about multiple motor failures also shows the flaws in your logic.

 

[paquo]

There is an overwhelmingly greater number of Specialized motor failure stories... to the point where they now have a reputation for it on every bike forum I have read. That doesn't happen for no reason or just on "hearsay". The fact people are posting in this thread about multiple motor failures also shows the flaws in your logic.

i would guess that the brose mistake of putting a faulty belt in the first run of the mag S motor created this bad reputation for specialized which at this point may be a bit overdone as there have been far fewer complaints about the 2020 motor, but the damage has been done

 

[Doomanic]

It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it.

 

[thebarber]

It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it.

As I was once advised.
"You can build a thousand bridges, yet get caught shagging one sheep.
You're never known as the bridge builder.....

 

[Fivetones]

As I was once advised.
"You can build a thousand bridges, yet get caught shagging one sheep.
You're never known as the bridge builder.....

There has to be a sheep to bridge ratio though surely? ?

 

[Doomanic]

If there is it's clearly over 1000...

 

[thebarber]

WELL it's not 1000/1
Can't go anywhere around ere without a.jib or jibe FFS ?
Please note I dont build bridges.....

 

[EMTBehave]

It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it.

It's not 'one bad deed', as though one man did something a little silly. It's a bad design choice that caused thousands of people a lot of stress, lost time and inconvenience, and possibly put people in danger if the motor failed at a bad time. Reputations DESERVE to be impacted by such things because making screw-ups like that are avoidable and also not to be expected or tolerated on premium products like this. Of course it can theoretically happen with any company, but they shouldn't expect an easy time or any sympathy when it does.

As I was once advised.
"You can build a thousand bridges, yet get caught shagging one sheep.
You're never known as the bridge builder.....

That gave me a good chuckle.

 

[MattyB]

There is an overwhelmingly greater number of Specialized motor failure stories... to the point where they now have a reputation for it on every bike forum I have read. That doesn't happen for no reason or just on "hearsay". The fact people are posting in this thread about multiple motor failures also shows the flaws in your logic.

Agreed. The piece that really tells the story is the motor in the Creo and SL; if they were still a happy partner of Brose, why start a new partnership with Mahle? No, the reputational damage has been done and (despite how well the Brose rides with the Spec software) I severely doubt we will see another bike with a Brose motor from Specialized.

 

[HORSPWR]

It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it.

Pretty sure you’re talking about my wife!

 

[Zimmerframe]

There has to be a sheep to bridge ratio though surely? ?

Maybe the problem is not so much that someone was "caught" shagging one sheep. It's the underlying problem that they prefer shagging sheep ?

Man is often driven to create through his desires.

I would propose that 9/10 bridge builders initially got into their profession because of their desire to shag a sheep on the other side of a difficult to cross brook or ravine.

Hence, they may have built 1000 bridges and been caught shagging 1 sheep. But the facts would suggest that they previously tried to shag 1000 sheep.

 

[ImSundee]

Find out what your LBS sells, and go wiht that is my motto, that way you have local support when its required, its an ebike you will need it.

And the reason Spesh are so popular is the way the bike rides, yes the motor might have some issues for some people but they sell alot of them, and the warranty is top notch.

 

[Doomanic]

Maybe the problem is not so much that someone was "caught" shagging one sheep. It's the underlying problem that they prefer shagging sheep ?

Man is often driven to create through his desires.

I would propose that 9/10 bridge builders initially got into their profession because of their desire to shag a sheep on the other side of a difficult to cross brook or ravine.

Hence, they may have built 1000 bridges and been caught shagging 1 sheep. But the facts would suggest that they previously tried to shag 1000 sheep.

You have way too much time on your hands.

 

[HORSPWR]

High Rock Ruti

2019 Turbo Levo S works, full refund after the fourth motor failure in less than a 1000 miles. 3 belts failed and 1 sprag clutch. I bought the 2020 Trek Rail 9.8, the shop threw in the fancy damper from the 9.9, and going to install the 2021 air spring, The Levo is just plane beautiful to look at, it rides really well, wish they would utilize a DW link rear suspension configuration, the Pivot shuttle has noticeably better rear suspension, stays on the ground.

The Trek Rail 9.8 handles better than the Levo by small margin, however to notice that better handling speed is required, as reviewed the Rail is little sluggish at slow speed, a little. The extra torque of the Brose can be felt however the Bosch has it's torque at slower peddle speeds, feels stronger at slower less cadences.

Good Luck with this HUGE LUXURY PROBLEM!

Why do your posts always commence with your name?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

You have way too much time on your hands.

Lockdown syndrome...

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Let me preface this by saying that I've been riding mountain bikes a long time, but recently I had my first eMTB experience with both a Specialized Turbo Levo and a Trek Rail 7.

I've been considering purchasing either an S-Works Turbo Levo or a Trek Rail 9.9.

Money isn't an issue, but what is an issue is the amount of motor failures I keep reading about, particularly with Specialized.

To spend this amount of money on a bike and have the motor failing all the time seems very, very discouraging.

I liked both bikes, but the Specialized spoke to me more. However, everyone I talk to is telling me to avoid Specialized like the plague, since the motors are a terrible design (belt driven) and go bad all the time.

I've heard the most recent Bosch motors are significantly better, so this has me leaning towards the Trek, simply for more reliability.

Can anyone provide any input? It's hard to tell how many people out there are enjoying their eMTBs without motor issues, especially when those people likely rarely chime in online, and instead all we read about is the bad experiences.

I'm wondering if I'm too early to the game, and maybe they simply having had eMTBs for long enough, and therefore haven't worked out all the reliability issues with the motors.

Thanks for any input / advice

My Giant Trance e3 has now done 1046 miles. No problem with the Motor (Yamaha). Actually the bike has been pretty much problem free ?

I have the same bike Giant Trance e+3Pro 2019 model and share the same experience. I bought it because I read good reviews about its Yamaha SyncDrive Pro motor... being one of, if not having the most powerful output in it's day (80Nm of torque). I had to balance the positive or negative features with other personal preference factors:
a) it's noisy, but it's a low growl I could live with, not a high pitched whine (the new 2020 Yamaha motor is apparently quieter).
b) the 2019 motor power peak is biased towards low-cadence, which is how I like it when I ride. Lower cadence along the same land speed means lower wear on bearings, seals, drivetrain I can only guess.
c) it's high torque output means the motor won't need to be pushed close to or past its upper limits often, so it runs cooler well within it's operational zone... possibly less stress for the battery?
d) I knew the motor cuts-in immediately even with the slightest foot pressure over the leading pedal. This was reported as a bad thing by reviewers who like to rest their leading foot that way when waiting around for their riding mates. That was annoying for me too I must admit, until I adapted and changed my habits to not do it. Then I soon found this characteristic to be a useful advantage - when having to get going again after inadvertently stopping or losing balance during an uphill section.

It was only after I bought the bike that I became aware that there were very few reports of failures or problems related to the Yamaha motor. Perhaps the reason for that is all of the points above... or Giant bike owners don't report motor failures much, I really don't know. However, the Giant owners have been vocal enough about three major problems early on - the dreaded rear hub failures, the battery latch/key lock misalignment, and water ingress issue with the control buttons - all relatively easy fixes... but just goes to show that no eBike is exempt from technical woes. In saying that, I haven't ridden my bike in such extreme wet and muddy conditions as described by our fellow eBikers in the UK. I also do not wash my bike with any jet of water. Just low pressure water flow and a soft brush, plus a leaf-blower dry off. So it's hard to know if we are really comparing apples with apples across the different bike brands.

Despite the Giant Reign winning the first eEnduro World Cup Series and the Yamaha SyncDrive Pro motor by the most part proving to be very reliable, I have also noticed that the Giant brand continues to be the underdog. Perhaps Giant is never going to be exotic enough as far as brand association is concerned.

So choosing which eMTB to buy - may involve more than just evaluating technical factors. Aesthetics has a lot to do with it too. For example, I've always said that I would never buy a bike that I can't stand to look at. Just so happen that the Giant Trance E+ looks ok by me personally. If it wasn't... despite the good points about its motor, I may have selected a different bike to purchase. As the saying goes, "if the devil wears Prada..."

 

[Binhill1]

Let me preface this by saying that I've been riding mountain bikes a long time, but recently I had my first eMTB experience with both a Specialized Turbo Levo and a Trek Rail 7.

I've been considering purchasing either an S-Works Turbo Levo or a Trek Rail 9.9.

Money isn't an issue, but what is an issue is the amount of motor failures I keep reading about, particularly with Specialized.

To spend this amount of money on a bike and have the motor failing all the time seems very, very discouraging.

I liked both bikes, but the Specialized spoke to me more. However, everyone I talk to is telling me to avoid Specialized like the plague, since the motors are a terrible design (belt driven) and go bad all the time.

I've heard the most recent Bosch motors are significantly better, so this has me leaning towards the Trek, simply for more reliability.

Can anyone provide any input? It's hard to tell how many people out there are enjoying their eMTBs without motor issues, especially when those people likely rarely chime in online, and instead all we read about is the bad experiences.

I'm wondering if I'm too early to the game, and maybe they simply having had eMTBs for long enough, and therefore haven't worked out all the reliability issues with the motors.

Thanks for any input / advice

I have Levo Expert intended getting the sworks like you the dealer reckoned the Expert was a better buy think the carbon rear end was one of the reasons . Upgraded to fox forks and hope brakes. Any way apart from a crack in the battery to motor cable which was replaced in 2 days on warranty I have had no issues at all with motor or anything else. Any times it wouldn't start was down to washing too keenly then you just dry out Tcu or motor cable. Very wet summer last year washing every ride very muddy and big tyres throw big mud all over . 2100 miles since July. My average ride 25 to 30 miles 3000 feet climbing plenty rough stuff but no jumping. Remember you don't know how people are riding these bikes. But yes a lot of people are just waiting for the motor to go me included.

 

[outerlimits]

Buy a Spesh for the best bike and best warranty. If money is no object, why worry ?
All eMtb’s will fail once they drink enough water. If you are going to derestrict it, you are better off with a motorbike.