Motor failures: Am I making a mistake buying an eMTB?

[PumpinIron]

Let me preface this by saying that I've been riding mountain bikes a long time, but recently I had my first eMTB experience with both a Specialized Turbo Levo and a Trek Rail 7.

I've been considering purchasing either an S-Works Turbo Levo or a Trek Rail 9.9.

Money isn't an issue, but what is an issue is the amount of motor failures I keep reading about, particularly with Specialized.

To spend this amount of money on a bike and have the motor failing all the time seems very, very discouraging.

I liked both bikes, but the Specialized spoke to me more. However, everyone I talk to is telling me to avoid Specialized like the plague, since the motors are a terrible design (belt driven) and go bad all the time.

I've heard the most recent Bosch motors are significantly better, so this has me leaning towards the Trek, simply for more reliability.

Can anyone provide any input? It's hard to tell how many people out there are enjoying their eMTBs without motor issues, especially when those people likely rarely chime in online, and instead all we read about is the bad experiences.

I'm wondering if I'm too early to the game, and maybe they simply having had eMTBs for long enough, and therefore haven't worked out all the reliability issues with the motors.

Thanks for any input / advice

 

[thebarber]

I've been in the same boat and probably am now that my bike's out of warranty (vitus e sommet, shimano e8000, replaced motor last year).
Mate's have 2x early levos both had motor issues
1x 2019 levo with no issues so far, previous kenevo had new motor.
1x orange with a motor replaced and 2x cracked frames.
We all travel 40miles to a bike shop passing loads on the way.
You've got to jump in sometime so why not now?
As with buying any technology there's always better just around the corner.
Choose the bike you get a feel for.
Find a belt and braces lbs (ask on here for your area) and hopefully they'll look after you.

 

[PumpinIron]

Well, the good thing is that Specialized told me they warranty the frame for life. So basically you break a frame and they'll give you a new one, no questions asked. So the frame seems to be covered no matter what.

The motor is a 2-year warranty, so if it goes bad in 2-years, they replace it for free, and then the new motor has another 2-year warranty I'm told.

So from what I can tell, Specialized has some serious reliability issues, but a kick ass warranty.

I'm not familiar with Trek's warranty, so I would love to hear anyone's input on Trek and their warranty.

I hear what you're saying though. I love these eMTBs, talk about an amazing experience.

 

[thebarber]

I've heard about the motor warranty starting again if you need a new one but don't know anyone who's had first hand experience.
Mate's pimpedhis levo with ohlins rear, upgraded fork internals and 27.5 rear wheel and loves it.
I've been tempted to get one just because of the 700w battery

 

[PumpinIron]

The 700 battery is a nice feature. In addition, having ridden the Turbo Levo, I was impressed by the motor. Lots of torque, completely silent, and you'd never know it was there it's so smooth.

 

[thebarber]

WELL wotcha waiting for ?
Sounds like you're minds made up

 

[Pdoz]

You get 2 years warranty during which time replacement motors are inconvenient but not a deal breaker. Unless you're 30 km down a very long hill....

After 2 years, you have a very good argument to trade up to the latest and greatest . Honestly, how long do you keep a bike before the new bike itch starts again? Just take a look at a specialized sl before committing to that old fashioned brose powered lead weight

Expect to lose massive sums of money at resale time. Expect to not care - these things are bargains when measured in smile $.

 

[PumpinIron]

I'm waiting until we close on our new house.

Mortgage broker says I have to wait until May 12th to make any large purchases, or it could tank the purchase of the new house.

The wait is going to kill me

 

[thebarber]

And tbh I'd be looking at 2019 levos using any money saved for upgrades, probably still no where near the s works price

 

[HORSPWR]

Get the Rail!

 

[EMTBehave]

Let me preface this by saying that I've been riding mountain bikes a long time, but recently I had my first eMTB experience with both a Specialized Turbo Levo and a Trek Rail 7.

I've been considering purchasing either an S-Works Turbo Levo or a Trek Rail 9.9.

Money isn't an issue, but what is an issue is the amount of motor failures I keep reading about, particularly with Specialized.

To spend this amount of money on a bike and have the motor failing all the time seems very, very discouraging.

I liked both bikes, but the Specialized spoke to me more. However, everyone I talk to is telling me to avoid Specialized like the plague, since the motors are a terrible design (belt driven) and go bad all the time.

I've heard the most recent Bosch motors are significantly better, so this has me leaning towards the Trek, simply for more reliability.

Can anyone provide any input? It's hard to tell how many people out there are enjoying their eMTBs without motor issues, especially when those people likely rarely chime in online, and instead all we read about is the bad experiences.

I'm wondering if I'm too early to the game, and maybe they simply having had eMTBs for long enough, and therefore haven't worked out all the reliability issues with the motors.

Thanks for any input / advice

Ignore motors for a second and just look at the manufactuters.

Bosch are one of the worlds top engineering companies. Their power tools are among the best and most reliable in the world. Bosch are also the owners of Siemens who are a name synonymous with engineering excellence... pretty much everything they make, from trains to home appliances, are excellent.

Now think of all of that engineering expertise, R&D budget and manufacturing capability poured into an electric bike motor. I am not saying Bosch motors are perfect, but if you look at the minds and infrastructure they have behind their products and their experience with electric motors then it allows a great deal of faith in their ability to make a strong and reliable product.

I have read a lot about Brose motors failing and to a lesser extend Shimano too. I haven't read a lot about Bosch motors failing.

 

[Doomanic]

Specialized motor warranty is 2 years. Full stop. At this time there is no rolling warranty and the clock does not reset when you get a new motor. After 2 years you have to rely on their assisted purchase scheme, although that new motor would come with a fresh warranty.
Bosch are on a rolling warranty. New motor or battery and the warranty resets.

Trek frame warranty is for life and in my experience is excellent and very fast. I reported a cracked frame to my LBS on a Saturday and had a positive response from Trek on the following Tuesday based solely on photographs of the cracks.

Fanbois will claim that we hear about more Brose motor failures because the Levo is the most popular single bike while conveniently forgetting that huge numbers of Bosch and Shimano motored biked are sold across multiple manufacturers.

Bosch motors aren’t perfect though. I had 4 fail in 2500 miles, all with the same fault and none showed an error code. The 2020 CX motor shouldn’t suffer the same failures as it’s had a complete redesign and the design flaw of the old motor has been rectified. There have been quite a few reports of erroneous 504 errors on the new motors but a recent firmware update should have fixed those.

 

[Jamsxr]

Out of my eBike riding mates I’ve heard of one Shimano motor failure and countless Brose issues, however the service from the Specilized dealer (Berkshire Bikes) seems excellent and stuff is sorted pretty quickly.

There will be problems at some point no matter what bike you get. The trick is to keep your MTB, and ride it regularly. I find just riding the eBike I lost a load of strength when going out with my MTB mates so I try to mix it up as much as possible.

 

[davarello]

Ive got a 19 Levo that has had one new motor for noise and then that needed a belt replacement after 2500kms. Not ideal, but great back up from Specialized and my LBS have had everything sorted out quickly. Having a good relationship with your shop is critical.

 

[R120]

My 2 cents is that the motors are much of a muchness - yes you will read on here all about how people think one is better than the other, but they all do the job and when out riding they all perform as well as each other IMO - A lot of preference is down to being used to the motor you have and finding other motors have "quirks" when you try them.

I have ridden a lot of bikes with a lot of different motors, and when I put my thoughts together about each bike its the riding chachteristics of the components and geometry that stay in my mind, not the motor.

My own bikes have the e8000 motor, and it remains my favourite as for me it delivers its power in a way that most accurately imitates riding a normal bike, however how much of that opinion is formed by putting over 4000 miles on it and being attuned to its quirks is hard to say.

Personally I would avoid a Specilized with the Brose simply because no matter how good the service is (in itself heavily dependent on how proactive your LBS is) if you have to deal with multiple issues that's multiple days you cant ride.

Maybe take a look at the Levo SL? If you like the regular Levo its worth checking out, and the Mahle motor seems at the moment to be trouble free.

 

[Russell]

I wouldn't worry about it. I've had a couple motor failures. The first one I used the warranty, it cost £80 for my local bike shop to process it. The second I probably still had warranty but couldn't be bothered to pay £80 and wait ages for my motor back so I got the bearings and bearing seal from performance line bearings for £40. If I was not mechanically inclined I woud have sent them the whole motor. They are very helpful and will get all my business of that type in the future, they also have instructional videos to help you rebuild your own motor, no secret squirrel bollocks. I seam to be needed a bearing change every 1000-2000 miles on my Bosch cx. They have some after market water seals available now so for the next rebuild I will fit them.

 

[CjP]

Hi, I’m a fanboi and I love my Specialized bikes, I have two of them. I’ve had problems with the original one and they’ve been dealt with within a week. I did wash it with a low pressure washer every ride though. Second one no problems as of yet. 500km on the clock.
I ride them hard and put them through some nasty terrain and they just love it.
Totally happy with my choice and I will be buying the next SL model if it meets my needs.
No regrets.

Also I’ve ridden other ebikes and also enjoyed them but they just didn’t sit right for me.

 

[Dax]

The motor is a 2-year warranty, so if it goes bad in 2-years, they replace it for free, and then the new motor has another 2-year warranty I'm told.

So from what I can tell, Specialized has some serious reliability issues, but a kick ass warranty.

This is incorrect. The bike has a two year warranty, including the motor. The warranty on parts that are replaced under warranty ends at the end of the original warranty period.

If you buy a new motor outside of the warranty period, that new motor will come with a two year warranty.

There have been quite a few reports of erroneous 504 errors on the new motors but a recent firmware update should have fixed those.

504 Motor Not Found?

 

[jerry]

Bosch are also the owners of Siemens who are a name synonymous with engineering excellence...

No they are not. They used to have a joint venture with Siemens for white goods, but they are very much two different companies which otherwise have nothing to do with one another.

 

[jerry]

The warranty on parts that are replaced under warranty ends at the end of the original warranty period.

Not so with Bosch. The warranty is reset, and runs for another 2 years on the replacement motor.

 

[R120]

My replacement Shimano motor came with a new 2 year warranty from date of installation.

 

[B1rdie]

With the mindset of finding a part that will not break, one will much increase the chance of frustration, instead you can focus on witch brand will de easier to fix.

 

[R120]

One thing worth pointing out, is that Specilized is the only brand that officially (not Brose, so this doesn't apply to other brands using the motor) allow dealers to hold spare motors in stock, and the dealers discretion to replace the motor - this is why shops in the uk like Berkshire Cycles can do same day motor swaps.

Shimano and Bosch genrally require the motor to be sent back to them to be assessed before being replaced, though some dealers have managed to get spare motors, or swapped them out of other bikes to help people, but this is not the norm.

 

[Fivetones]

Specialized get knocked for their customer support but they’ve really had their work cut out with the Brose situation it seems to me.

When specifying what they wanted from Mahle they have to have addressed a lot of this surely. Let’s see how that SL motor lasts in a non-road/gravel environment.

 

[R120]

No they are not. They used to have a joint venture with Siemens for white goods, but they are very much two different companies which otherwise have nothing to do with one another.

Actually Bosch, Simens, Neff, Gagenau and other appliance brands are all part of the BSH group which is a subsidiary of Bosch that focus's on white goods. I have quite a lot of business dealing with them.

I believe Siemens (as in medialc, industrial, mobile etc etc) itself is a separate company, its just the appliance brand that is part of BSH.

Bosch as a corporate entity is split into a number of subsidiary companies, all focusing on different industries, generally grouped under 4 sectors, Mobility Soloutions (Ebike motors are within this), Industrial Technology, Consumer goods, and Energy and Building Technology.

What many people don't realise is that the first Bosch (and indeed Brose who are one of the worlds biggest automotive suppliers)) ebike motors starting points where the motor systems for windscreen wipers on commercial vehicles, such as big trucks.

I heard a rumour, which I cant verify but seems plausible, that Shimano's starting point for development was based around their motorised fishing reels (Apart from bike components, shimano are a big name in fishing equipment!)

 

[Beezerk]

Be smart, buy Bosch ?
Too many Brose horror stories both on here and people I've met for me to go anywhere near them

 

[thebarber]

Look what y started, warriors akin...
Get whatever takes yer fancy fella and enjoy it

 

[OldGoatMTB]

It's just a fact that sometimes motors go bad, and everything wears eventually. What you have to ask is why are you buying an e-bike? is it just because you want the latest thing, or are you looking for a bike because it will make a big difference in your enjoyment of cycling. It was the ladder for me, and it was a major purchase but it has been worth it and I am glad I made the choice. My Felt uses the Shimano system, but specialized makes some pretty sweet bikes, too!

 

[Loamranger]

I’m told by a ebike motor repair specialist that they have seen more Brose, Shimano and Yamaha motors with problems than Bosch.

Most of the time the problem appears to be water getting into the motor either through riding through a lot of slop or over enthusiastic washing or both. It might be a good idea to not wash around the motor at all, let the mud dry off and then carefully brush. I wonder if motors last longer in dryer climates than the U.K.?

Another thing to bear in mind is when the crankshaft bearings fail are you able to fit a repair kit for that motor. Some motors are impossible to work on apparently. I do know that you can change all the parts on the Bosch motors as Russell said in his earlier post. As Russell mentioned Performance Line Bearings are able to supply the parts if you need.

 

[PumpinIron]

Well, it sounds like it's probably going to end up being a Trek Rail 9.7. I think that is the lowest model Rail where I can get the carbon frame.

Then I can just put on my own brakes and suspension.

I really love the Specialized bikes, but having to constantly worry over the motor doesn't sit well with me.

It also seems (correct me if I am wrong) that there is better aftermarket support for Bosch in terms of being able to work on the motor yourself?