Most reliable EMTB's?

[HugoStiglitz]

Hey everyone!

So I’m starting my research to try and find the best EMTB for my needs.

I’ve done a lot of research so far. I have a good grasp on all the basics and even some of the intricacies as well. But what I’m really looking for is real world experience and anecdotal information from you guys. Real people. Not magazines, blogs or websites that have money exchanging hands for better reviews and certain products being left out, etc.

I know inevitably, I’ll have to go demo some of these bikes to get a “feel” for how the motors and pedaling assistance works. But… I’m 6’8” 230lbs and only have two bike shops in my area that have any EMTB’s at all. So all the sizes will be S, M, L with no XL or XXL’s at all. Plus, we only have Trek and Specialized to chose from. And Trek doesn’t even make an EMTB that is big enough for me, so they’re out. So I’m going to need to rely on a lot of information from you guys to help me make the best decision.


TLDR: So I’m interested in hearing from all of you, about one specific thing

Of the EMTB’s you have, or you’ve had, or anyone you know has, or you’ve read about, or demo’d, which models are the most reliable with the least amount of problems related to the motor, pedal assistance and the computer? I read a LOT of reviews about these EMTBs having all sorts of problems. And people having to send the bike back many times to have the motor or computer replaced and it still not working. I'm looking to stay away from that BS as much as possible.

I’ve got a decent sized list of bikes I’m interested in. Plus a pretty good sized list of bikes that I’ve read a decent amount of bad things about. It seems like quite a few of these EMTBs have issues often or more than once. Which to me, is completely unacceptable when dropping used Car money on a bicycle. So I’m first and foremost concerned about purchasing one of, if not the most reliable motors and computers. The Geo, the build kit, etc is pretty far down the list. They all are aprox the same or close enough. I most importantly, want to make sure I buy an extremely reliable motor and computer that has little to no problems. AND a company that will stand behind their E bike and fix it, if or when things go wrong. that is THE most important aspect to me. The rest I can work with or change out as I go.

Thanks everyone

 

[Goat]

They all break! Might be more realistic to focus on warranty and support rather than try and figure out which is more reliable. Specialized have a really good reputation for after sales care and the fact that they are local to you is a big plus. Packing up and shipping bikes for warranty work adds hassle and downtime.

 

[HugoStiglitz]

They all break! Might be more realistic to focus on warranty and support rather than try and figure out which is more reliable. Specialized have a really good reputation for after sales care and the fact that they are local to you is a big plus. Packing up and shipping bikes for warranty work adds hassle and downtime.

Oh god, that's not what I want to hear, hahaha. Why do they all break? Why can't they make a quality piece of equipment? They're charging you outrageous prices for a BICYCLE. Not a Motorcycle with a million parts and an engine. This is sad to hear. But... I guess I should consider warranty and shop reputation as more important then.

So then other than Specialized, which brands tend to be much more helpful with the warranty on their EMTB's? I have a SC Megatower and bought it because SC is known for having such amazing CS. Is there EMTB warranty care amazing as well? And are there any other brands that also have amazing warranty service?

 

[Paulquattro]

Why can't they make a quality piece of equipment? They're charging you outrageous prices for a BICYCLE. Not a Motorcycle with a million parts and an engine. This is sad to hear.

Hi
Everybody says this and compares pedelecs to motorbikes for cost , reliability etc
What people fail to realise is the pedelec is very new tech and a very small production compared to motor bikes which are made in masses and have been about for 140 yrs
One day pedelecs might become cheaper and more realistic in price but at the moment we are all in a small market of unique tech and have to pay for the privilege and put up with basically beta testing im afraid

 

[RustyIron]

Why do they all break? Why can't they make a quality piece of equipment?

???
Are you familiar with regular style mountain bikes? Sport-style motorcycles? Race cars? Off-road vehicles? Falcon 9 rockets? All high-performance machines require maintenance. The more you push them to the limit, the more frequently they need repair.

To best answer your question, we need to know what you intend to do with your new mountain bike. Just because there are only two stores in your area doesn't mean you have to settle for a grossly undersized bike. YT and Specialized will ship directly to your house. Plenty of retailers will do the same.

 

[Mikerb]

If you are looking for reliability, opinions will vary and one problem you will encounter seeking views from existing EMTBers, is that having spent a lot of money on an EMTB, those owners are loath to admit they bought a bad one!!

Without going into brands I would suggest you make your choice based on deliberately selecting some elements of bike design/componentry whilst avoiding others. My list would be:-

Avoid: Carbon frames, cables run through headsets, top tube mounted controllers, non ( retail) brand hubs/freehubs, base level drivetrain, brake and suspension components, uneccesary electrical components/functions/apps. ( navigation/heart monitor/bike lock/updates)

Select: Branded wheelsets/hubs and freehubs, at least mid range brake,drivetrain and suspension components.

I think most would agree that the Bosch CX performance motor is proving to be the most reliable currently although all motors need to be treated with some consideration for prolonged reliability, with water ingress possibly their worse enemy ( whether through on trial use or when cleaning the bike)

An EMTB requires more maintenance than an MTB with special attention given to drivetrain. Doing your own maintenance on a regular basis will greatly improve reliability. If that means investing in a good range of tools and going though a learning process, those are costs worth paying.

 

[HugoStiglitz]

Hi
Everybody says this and compares pedelecs to motorbikes for cost , reliability etc
What people fail to realise is the pedelec is very new tech and a very small production compared to motor bikes which are made in masses and have been about for 140 yrs
One day pedelecs might become cheaper and more realistic in price but at the moment we are all in a small market of unique tech and have to pay for the privilege and put up with basically beta testing im afraid

Hmm, ok, if you think that. I know that is not true. Capitalism and human greed is really why bikes cost so much. I know "why" Capitalist executives charge so much for bikes and yet can sell a motorcycle for the same price. That's not what I'm getting at. I was getting at the point that EMTB's and all bikes in general are an absolute rip off. And if they ARE going to rip us off, then they should make a quality product that lasts and has few to no problems. That's all I was getting at.

But I'm not here to get in a discussion about human greed or why capitalism is evil or argue with you or anyone. I just came here to talk about bikes

 

[rod9301]

E bikes are bikes with a motor. So the motor is the only thing you need to worry about in terms of reliability.
Maybe the frame if you're worried about the manufacturer going out of business

 

[Mikerb]

E bikes are bikes with a motor. So the motor is the only thing you need to worry about in terms of reliability.
Maybe the frame if you're worried about the manufacturer going out of business

Sorry to disagree with that! The addition of a motor means the requirement for a battery and a CAN network consisting controller, sensors, and mode control ( possibly also a screen display), and all associated wiring. All of that adds complexity and opportunity for failure given the lack of attention most manufacturers give to protection of those elements of the bike. The motr/battery etc also adds significant weight to the bike compared to an ordinary mtb, and creates far greater torque forces on drivetrain components. That additional weight and potential speed increase especially under the influence of gravity ( downhill!) puts more emphasis on the need for robust rims, tyres and brakes. So its not just an mtb with a motor!

 

[HugoStiglitz]

???
Are you familiar with regular style mountain bikes? Sport-style motorcycles? Race cars? Off-road vehicles? Falcon 9 rockets? All high-performance machines require maintenance. The more you push them to the limit, the more frequently they need repair.

To best answer your question, we need to know what you intend to do with your new mountain bike. Just because there are only two stores in your area doesn't mean you have to settle for a grossly undersized bike. YT and Specialized will ship directly to your house. Plenty of retailers will do the same.

Yes, I am familiar with regular Mtbs. I have a Megatower. I ride it really hard fairly often. I haven't had a single issue with the bike or any major component on it. I built it from scratch selecting parts I wanted. And it works and it's durable and I've not had a single issue. And I expect that, because I paid for one of the best frames on the market. I paid for SC's awesome lifetime warranty. I paid for high quality long lasting parts to build the bike. So yes, I am familiar with Mtbs. Not so much with motocross bikes, race cars, off road vehicles or rockets, which are all neither here nor there when discussing a MTB.

Routine maintenance and products failing often are not the same. I maintain my Megatower. And because I maintain it and bought quality parts, it has no problems. But I read about EMTBs having problems with the motors, batteries and computers often.

That is why I am here, asking about which bikes are the most reliable. Or, as another poster mentioned, finding out which brands off the best warranty and customer service, since apparently all EMTBs fall apart and have problems often.

And to me, that is absolutely ridiculous for how much they cost. If you are going to charge a premium for something, then it better work well and be reliable. It's ridiculous to think that you can spend 8-12k on a BICYCLE with a little motor, but then "expect" it to break down often and think "oh well, that's just how they are." That's not acceptable in my opinion. If I'm going to pay for a bicycle, to have fun on, and have to pay 8-12k, it better work, it better be reliable and have an incredible customer service and warranty backing it.

As far as what I intend to do with this EMTB and what I'll be riding, my answer is: I will be riding this EMTB to have fun. Go fast. Not have to work super hard to go faster than on my regular MTB. More than half of the riding I do, is more "trail" oriented riding. Meaning, lots of flats, pedaling often or almost all the time. Constant little ups and downs that break your flow and decrease and then increase your speed. It's not flowy and fast and fun. So this EMTB that I will be getting (to ride with my buddy who is also going to get one) is just to go fast, keep the pace higher for the entire ride and have fun getting in more time on the bike and going faster. We don't have Mtns or big hills anywhere near where I live. There's only one place I can ride something that could be called DH. It's 1 min runs down, wait for a shuttle and then do it again. So most of my riding is on trails where I have to pedal. So this bike will need to have the power to be able to help me go much faster then I can go on my own.

So I was thinking originally that a FF was the way to go. Then I've read a lot of info about these newer SL's and thought that was the way to go. But now that I'm on this forum, and reading through tons of posts about the FF vs SL debate, I feel like I'm back to thinking a FF ultra powerful motor is the way to go for my buddy and I. Because we just want to have fun and go fast. We're not concerned with anything other than reliability, getting in lots of ride time and going fast. We have normal bikes for being playful, jumping, popping, etc.

On my own regular bike, we routinely will be going 6-12mph on the flats, down for a few secs at most going 15-20mph and then lots of punchy little ups or shorter climbs where we're only going 3-6mph. So this ebike is to get the total mph avg WAY higher and allow us to go faster for the whole ride.

 

[JP-NZ]

But… I’m 6’8” 230lbs and only have two bike shops in my area that have any EMTB’s at all. So all the sizes will be S, M, L with no XL or XXL’s at all. Plus, we only have Trek and Specialized to chose from. And Trek doesn’t even make an EMTB that is big enough for me, so they’re out.

Ok first mistake your making is what I presume is looking at websites and seeing that an XL is recommended for riders between X and X height.

Thats wrong, a gen 3 or gen 4 trek rail in XL is around 520mm in reach(660 stack), you may only find a few bikes longer than that unless someone is making an XXL framed EMTB. Measure the reach on your current bike then look for EMTBs that are close.

I'm a similar weight to you, you'll need/want a full fat EMTB end of story.

 

[shep]

@HugoStiglitz
Hey up.
I ride an XL Scott ransom e920 29er
I put on slight longer stem.. moved seat back a touch etc etc.
It's reach is now about 537mm.
I'm 6"5" 273lbs.
Don't have any problems. Other than me being a numpty and crashing it.
Boosch CX motor thingymagig.
Very good bike, branded components etc . Total bike weight with me and kit is well over 150 kg.
My mates call it fukin elephant bike


Tough machine it is....

 

[HugoStiglitz]

If you are looking for reliability, opinions will vary and one problem you will encounter seeking views from existing EMTBers, is that having spent a lot of money on an EMTB, those owners are loath to admit they bought a bad one!!

Without going into brands I would suggest you make your choice based on deliberately selecting some elements of bike design/componentry whilst avoiding others. My list would be:-

Avoid: Carbon frames, cables run through headsets, top tube mounted controllers, non ( retail) brand hubs/freehubs, base level drivetrain, brake and suspension components, uneccesary electrical components/functions/apps. ( navigation/heart monitor/bike lock/updates)

Select: Branded wheelsets/hubs and freehubs, at least mid range brake,drivetrain and suspension components.

I think most would agree that the Bosch CX performance motor is proving to be the most reliable currently although all motors need to be treated with some consideration for prolonged reliability, with water ingress possibly their worse enemy ( whether through on trial use or when cleaning the bike)

An EMTB requires more maintenance than an MTB with special attention given to drivetrain. Doing your own maintenance on a regular basis will greatly improve reliability. If that means investing in a good range of tools and going though a learning process, those are costs worth paying.

Thank you for your info! I appreciate it.

I'm a bit confused though by some of the info though. Avoid Carbon frames? Avoid Top Tube mounted controllers?

Aren't most of the good EMTB's carbon frames and in general aren't most EMTBs carbon? I think I've only seen a small handful of EMTBs that come in Aluminum. Seems like that would limit my search to next to no options. And being super tall, I really only have a few options to begin with. All of them being Carbon. And what is wrong with carbon? If it's built well it should be very durable. And if the company has a great warranty, then even if it did have an issue, they'd fix it. Plus, wouldn't an aluminum EMTB weigh and absolute TON?! They already weigh a lot at 48-55lbs, so wouldn't an aluminum frame bump that up to 55-60?

Then aren't ALL EMTB's equipped with a top tube controller? How else would you see how much battery the bike has left?

And then all the rest is common knowledge. At least to me anyways, can't speak for others. But thank you for mentioning them. I did my due diligence and bought high quality reliable parts for my Megatower build and it's been nothing but smooth sailing so far. So I definitely will be upgrading almost everything at some point or another not too long after purchasing the EMTB. Thanks

 

[HugoStiglitz]

Ok first mistake your making is what I presume is looking at websites and seeing that an XL is recommended for riders between X and X height.

Thats wrong, a gen 3 or gen 4 trek rail in XL is around 520mm in reach(660 stack), you may only find a few bikes longer than that unless someone is making an XXL framed EMTB. Measure the reach on your current bike then look for EMTBs that are close.

I'm a similar weight to you, you'll need/want a full fat EMTB end of story.

No, no mistakes. I'm looking at a Trail or All Mtn EMTB. Not Enduro or Mini DH bikes. So not a Rail. I would only be looking at an EXe. So Trek does not have any bikes for me right now.

I don't even look at what size they recommend or any garbage like that. The first thing I do when looking at any bike, is to immediately look at the Geo. Reach, Stack, Top Tube Length, STA, HTA, Wheelbase and Chainstay are the things I need to know right away to see if it even has any chance of fitting me. Most bikes don't. But yes, 520 reach and 660 would fit me well. That's almost the exact same size as my Megatower, just a bit smaller. So if I was looking for an Enduro/Freeride EMTB, that would be an option. But that's not the type of EMTB I'm looking for. I already have a Megatower for Enduro/Mini DH riding and want the EMTB to be more for trail riding with less travel.

Thank you for that last bit. It's confirming what I already am thinking, that I will have way more fun and need a FF EMTB

 

[HugoStiglitz]

@HugoStiglitz
Hey up.
I ride an XL Scott ransom e920 29er
I put on slight longer stem.. moved seat back a touch etc etc.
It's reach is now about 537mm.
I'm 6"5" 273lbs.
Don't have any problems. Other than me being a numpty and crashing it.
Boosch CX motor thingymagig.
Very good bike, branded components etc . Total bike weight with me and kit is well over 150 kg.
My mates call it fukin elephant bike


Tough machine it is....

That is a really nice bike. And if there were a bike shop anywhere near me, that carried Scott, I'd consider it. LOVE that it has such long chainstays! I bet it feels VERY centered when riding it! And could definitely get a longer stem on and probably be ok.

But I only have two bike stores around, and they are the Trek store and another local shop that carries Santa Cruz and Specialized. So, unless I find something truly outstanding that is better in almost everyway over a SC or Specialized, I probably will be getting one of those two brands. So the Heckler or Levo. Just because it's a local shop and I can get service.

I'm REALLY leery of buying an EMTB specifically online with no local support. A regular MTB, or a Road bike, sure, no problem. But EMTB's seem to be finicky and have issues. And having a local bike shop that will help you out and stand behind their bikes is HUGE for an EMTB.

 

[HugoStiglitz]

I appreciate the info so far. But still not hearing anything about which brands are the most reliable, have the fewest problems and which brands also have the best service and warranties. Can any of you speak to that? That is what is going to help the most. Thanks

 

[HugoStiglitz]

Well this is news to me and FANTASTIC! I just found out that a local bike shop I've never heard of, on the other side of town is an ORBEA dealer!!! So the Wild is now on the list, along with the Heckler and Levo! That is amazing! I've read nothing but incredible reviews of that bike and actually, last time we were out riding, my buddy and I came across a guy on an EMTB. He was telling us how awesome it is, how fast he can go, how he can get in twice the amount of miles, in the same amount of time it took him before on a regular bike. And it's just the best bike he's ever ridden. And it was the new Orbea Wild! He said he tried a bunch of other EMTBs and this Wild was hands down the best and he's been LOVING it ever since. So this is fantastic to know I could potentially get one. Plus it has a Bosch motor! A little bit too much bike for what I want it for, but EVERY review I've read says it rides like a MUCH smaller more nimble bike. That it can either plow through whatever you want, AND it is nimble and quick handling for such a large bike with so much travel.

 

[ratherbebiking]

You are asking for something that doesn't exist. You simply won't find raw metrics on reliability as it is a highly subjective topic. I've ridden Shimano, Brose, and Bosch powered bikes and they all have positives an negatives but also feel different. Ride them all and find out which system tickles your fancy then work from there OR find a dealership you like, that you have a relationship with and support them.

 

[JP-NZ]

Well this is news to me and FANTASTIC! I just found out that a local bike shop I've never heard of, on the other side of town is an ORBEA dealer!!! So the Wild is now on the list, along with the Heckler and Levo!

Wait a minute, a few posts above you wrote the Rail off because you wanted a shorter travel bike..? The Rail is 160/150 yet the Wild is 160/160 and the Levo & Heckler are 160/150 what gives?

You want Reliability... Bosch.

Buy local, thats my only other advice.

 

[Streddaz]

The point that a few people here are making is that all bikes brands have failures. A mate of mine had a Megatower and the free hub died two weeks in. Same goes for Ebikes, yes there are failures, but they are a minority, and some have a higher percentage than others. Why do they fail more than a normal bike? Well, I haven't seen any real data that they do, but if it is true basically you have all the components of a normal bike, plus you are adding a motor, electronics and a battery to the equation and that increases the failure points.
I'd pick a brand that has good service and warrantee and a good local dealer you can go to if you do have issues.
You can buy rebuild kits for most motors now or send it off to be rebuilt.

 

[Mikerb]

Thank you for your info! I appreciate it.

I'm a bit confused though by some of the info though. Avoid Carbon frames? Avoid Top Tube mounted controllers?

Aren't most of the good EMTB's carbon frames and in general aren't most EMTBs carbon? I think I've only seen a small handful of EMTBs that come in Aluminum. Seems like that would limit my search to next to no options. And being super tall, I really only have a few options to begin with. All of them being Carbon. And what is wrong with carbon? If it's built well it should be very durable. And if the company has a great warranty, then even if it did have an issue, they'd fix it. Plus, wouldn't an aluminum EMTB weigh and absolute TON?! They already weigh a lot at 48-55lbs, so wouldn't an aluminum frame bump that up to 55-60?

Then aren't ALL EMTB's equipped with a top tube controller? How else would you see how much battery the bike has left?

And then all the rest is common knowledge. At least to me anyways, can't speak for others. But thank you for mentioning them. I did my due diligence and bought high quality reliable parts for my Megatower build and it's been nothing but smooth sailing so far. So I definitely will be upgrading almost everything at some point or another not too long after purchasing the EMTB. Thanks

Carbon or Ally: Most brands do both. There is very little weight difference and for an EMTB overall weight is far less important than where all that weight is centred. Carbon is more fragile for little gain in performance. Weakest elements are the headtube and any bearing interface.There is also absolutely no way to determine a good carbon frame from a poor one other than price especially since there is little or no information on the modulus of carbon used, what epoxy is used etc.
Top tube controllers: Many brands have copied the gen 2 Levo controller in the top tube design. with the Levo it was the TCU and now the Mastermind. The TCU caused a lot of problems specifically because it is housed in an enclosed tube and is no waterproof. No idea if the Mastermind is any better but I have seen reports of similar problems with them after a while. They can be protected if you are happy to do some work on them yourself. Personally I prefer the older Bosch Purion controller on the bars and now the Smart LED Remote on the bars. Any problem with it and it literally takes 5 minutes to change and at less than half the price of most top tube controllers. ( Just my preference for simplicity and reliability!!
Given your experience with the Megatower, one idea you could pursue is to buy frame only ( usually for an EMTB complete with motor and battery etc) and build a bike to your own trusted spec.

From your comments it would seem you would be best with a 150mm travel trail bike rather than an enduro type geo.

 

[rzr]

Why can't they make a quality piece of equipment? They're charging you outrageous prices for a BICYCLE. Not a Motorcycle with a million parts and an engine.

I'm not sure if you know, but you have to REBUILD motocross engine after 40-50 hours ...
it can be EVERY MONTH ...

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

@HugoStiglitz If you haven't read it yet, take a look at the thread linked below which discusses motor reliability and repairability. Lots of good information on the topic.

I'd personally vouch for a Bosch CX Gen 4 motor. Has been trouble free on my Moterra MY 2021. Trying not to get it wet!

Need help deciding on a reliable motor.

So as stated in a previous post by myself, I’ve gone through 2 Shimano EP8 motors in 315 miles. This has really put me off e-bikes in general, but I just love riding them! I ride mostly red and black runs, jumps, drops, rock gardens, etc. Everything that rattles a bike around, so part of me...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Tony4wd]

If the shop you want to buy from sells more than one brand, you can ask them which manufacturers are easier to deal with for warranty support. Specialized and Orbea seem to be at opposite ends of the scale regarding support.

The Bosch CX4 seems to be the safest bet (powerful, reliable and somewhat repairable once out of warranty) and you can regrease the crankshaft seals to help prevent water ingress.

 

[RustyIron]

I appreciate the info so far. But still not hearing anything about which brands are the most reliable, have the fewest problems and which brands also have the best service and warranties. Can any of you speak to that?

No one with half a brain will claim to know what is the "most reliable." Maybe that's why everyone's clammed up.

You've put together your own bikes, so you know how subjective such things are. But you're already a Santa Cruz rider, so why not go with one of their eMTB's? They have great warranties, and their customer service usually replies in hours. They're on the same continent as you, so getting parts is easy. Their bigger bikes use Shimano motors. Shimano has a huge presence here, so they're also responsive and quick to get parts to you.

 

[rzr]

And Shimano? It's reliable, but unrepairable later ? Shimano doesn't provide any spare parts and is against "right to repair" ?

I have Spesh Levo, bought it with full knowledge about possible problems, motor changed (probably belt stripped) after 3500km. however the feeling, quitness and bike handling and geometry is amazing.
probably now you can find more interesting bikes with Bosch than year ago.

 

[irie]

probably now you can find more interesting bikes with Bosch than year ago.

My guess (and that's all it is) is that there are quite a few new eMTBs using the new Bosch SX motor waiting in the wings but won't be announced until current stock is cleared.

 

[shep]

Well here then.
My Scott ransom is the most reliable bike out there.
Bosch gen 4cx
Fox rear
Rock shox front and shimano high end kit.
Bar mounted controller.
Maxis tyres etc etc etc

Great value.
I'm very lucky as have giant,spackalized,trek,Scott,cube,etc among others in the 8 shops around my area that also supply other brands too.
I went for the Scott because it seemed like the toughest option as I'm big .
I beat the hell out of it on rocks and trails. Crash it. So hey no regrets.
I have had to attend to the rear wheel and hub which is getting very well used . No real issue just wear and tear.
Dealer service is excellent being a shop I've not used before can be awkward.
Anyway there you have it

THE SCOTT RANSOM IS THE TOUGHEST BIKE.



@RustyIron
@HugoStiglitz

 

[Zimmerframe]

This should be a pretty solid beasty and great value with the spec.

Is this the sleeper EMTB of 2023?

Haibike NDURO 8. All this bike for £4498 brand new... EDIT 10th Nov, now £4199 :eek: PROS: Long travel, 720Wh battery, 85Nm Yamaha PWX-3 Motor. Incredible suspension spec for money. Enduro GEO with long CS (460mm maybe a con for some). CONS: Heavy (26KG?) The suspension alone is almost £3k

www.emtbforums.com

 

[rzr]

with display from 80'ies Star Trek ? Purion ?