Main pivot removal

[Jedipip]

Hello so when you unscrew or try to unscrew the pivot axel it's pushing the drive side away from the bike? They way the axel is designed is it tightens up into the drive side and then bottoms out on the bearing(and seals) on the non drive side what hold the no drive side is a taper lock. I presume when you tried to take the axel out you had the taper lock yoke out ( I can't remember if the Allen key for main axel will fit through the taper lock cone.)It sound like your right to stop if you encountered resistance. If you back it off and when the drive side is pushing away give a thump with your palm. I bet the issue is the taper lock is still locked which is blue below. The chain stay pushing away can only be that. Hope this helps

View attachment 39336

Yep, the taper lock is out and the Allen key is in the Main pivot axle. It winds out perhaps 3 or 4 turns perfectly (visible on both sides). It’s simply pushing the non drive side in and pushing the drive side out and on the non drive side it then interferes with the frame.

 

[Maherto]

Yep, the taper lock is out and the Allen key is in the Main pivot axle. It winds out perhaps 3 or 4 turns perfectly (visible on both sides). It’s simply pushing the non drive side in and pushing the drive side out and on the non drive side it then interferes with the frame.

I say the axel is stuck on a burr or lip on the non drive side give is a thump with palm on the drive side I bet yea hear a pop

 

[leftside]

I wouldn't send the bike back to YT for these types of issues. Surely a local bike store can do the required fixes? My Decoy was creaking very badly. Local bike store fixed it no problem, and bike is running like new again. I just put it down to the cost of maintaining a bike.

Totally appreciate the desire to learn what is going on with the bike, and being able to service it yourself. But, if it comes down to sending the bike back to YT or having a local bike store do the fix/maintenance, doesn't the latter make more sense?

 

[Jedipip]

I say the axel is stuck on a burr or lip on the non drive side give is a thump with palm on the drive side I bet yea hear a pop

That’s what’s coming next! It’s pre-winter bearing service will get a little cheeky ??

 

[Ozone08]

I replaced my bearings today as a couple a weeks ago i started getting a knocking noisy mostly when applying the rear brake at high speed also noticed the rear had shifted over and was touching the frame. Changing the bearings was simple enough and without having to add a shim there seems to be enough of a clearance but its definitely something to keep an eye on. When i tried first removed the pivot bold both the bearings were solid and i was unable to turn them by hand but when removed they felt fine and probably could of been reused i think they had been compressed slightly into the spacer.

 

[Endoguru]

What bearing puller are you using? On my 2020 pro race there is a solid spacer between the bearings and I can’t figure out any way to get a puller behind each bearing to get them out.

 

[Ozone08]

What bearing puller are you using? On my 2020 pro race there is a solid spacer between the bearings and I can’t figure out any way to get a puller behind each bearing to get them out.

Bearing Puller Kit for YT Bike Frame - Capra, Jeffsy, Remover Extractor Tool | eBay

The extractor tool is simple to use. Simply insert a rod/drift/old bolt into the other side of the bearing and tap on the end of the puller tool. Insert the circular end of the tool into the centre of the bearing.

www.ebay.co.uk

You don't need to get behind the bearing the puller (link above) is a grip fit on the internal racer. Let me know if you need info.

 

[Endoguru]

Bearing Puller Kit for YT Bike Frame - Capra, Jeffsy, Remover Extractor Tool | eBay

The extractor tool is simple to use. Simply insert a rod/drift/old bolt into the other side of the bearing and tap on the end of the puller tool. Insert the circular end of the tool into the centre of the bearing.

www.ebay.co.uk

You don't need to get behind the bearing the puller (link above) is a grip fit on the internal racer. Let me know if you need info.

Do you know if they ship to the US?

 

[Ozone08]

Do you know if they ship to the US?

It say's worldwide shipping in the shipping section but you're probably best sending the seller a message first.

 

[Endoguru]

Thanks for the info. Have you used it yourself?

 

[Ozone08]

Thanks for the info. Have you used it yourself?

Your welcome, Yeah i replaced my bearings last month.

 

[WNH]

If u speak to yt an show them the pics of what is goin on. Then ask them to send u a shim/washer for the pivot. I had the same problem an made the shim myself but spoke to yt an they said they would have done the same thing an they do have the shims in stock . Since doin mine it’s been perfect View attachment 32692
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View attachment 32694

I emailed them with this exact problem, this is their response:
"These light scratches are merely cosmetic and should not be a cause for concern.
To avoid this area from being scratched further we recommend ensuring that there is a light amount of grease on the spacer here and to make sure this area remains clean and free of debris.
Cheers,
Austin"
This is the photo I sent them of the "light scratches" that are "merely cosmetic".

Plain and simple, this is a definite design flaw, and not the response that I should have received.

 

[Fatbap]

I emailed them with this exact problem, this is their response:
"These light scratches are merely cosmetic and should not be a cause for concern.
To avoid this area from being scratched further we recommend ensuring that there is a light amount of grease on the spacer here and to make sure this area remains clean and free of debris.
Cheers,
Austin"
This is the photo I sent them of the "light scratches" that are "merely cosmetic".

View attachment 48094
Plain and simple, this is a definite design flaw, and not the response that I should have received.

That’s not the kind of reply I’d be happy about.
This is the conversation I had with Yt

 

[Sapientiea]

I emailed them with this exact problem, this is their response:
"These light scratches are merely cosmetic and should not be a cause for concern.
To avoid this area from being scratched further we recommend ensuring that there is a light amount of grease on the spacer here and to make sure this area remains clean and free of debris.
Cheers,
Austin"
This is the photo I sent them of the "light scratches" that are "merely cosmetic".

Plain and simple, this is a definite design flaw, and not the response that I should have received.

It is not a design flaw. All carbon frames have tolerances. They just did not build them up good and forgot the washers. Would just put a washer to correct it and make pictures and send an email to YT to inform you solved it like that (for future reference). Unless you wish to send your bike back to Germany for such a little thing.

 

[WNH]

At the risk of sounding argumentative (which is truly not my intention), I'm going to approach this reply as gingerly as possible. By law, a defective product is one that cannot be used for the purposes intended OR is made dangerous as a result of a flaw or imperfection. Such a defect might exist in the entire design of a product or in the production of a particular individual product. A latent defect is one that is not readily observable by the buyer of an item, whereas a patent defect is obvious or immediately apparent upon observation. As my bike tucks neatly into the definition of a latent defect, I can only say one thing, it is a design flaw/defect. Had this defect, and the damage it caused, continued without my attention, the carbon triangle could have failed with catastrophic consequences. I appreciate your reply, but for my particular issue, and others that drew me to this forum, it does not apply.

The fix: I fabricated a stainless shim 17mm x 1mm thick to solve this issue, but for $6139,60 USD, I should not have to, nor should anyone else. My purpose for posting, is to make aware to the prospective buyer, the issues that they may encounter purchasing a YT Decoy. It also serves as a reference for anyone that might be going through this same issue, and wishes to take on the burden of correcting it themselves. As with most everyone on here, I would like to spend my time riding, not correcting manufacturing defects. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Sapientiea]

At the risk of sounding argumentative (which is truly not my intention), I'm going to approach this reply as gingerly as possible. By law, a defective product is one that cannot be used for the purposes intended OR is made dangerous as a result of a flaw or imperfection. Such a defect might exist in the entire design of a product or in the production of a particular individual product. A latent defect is one that is not readily observable by the buyer of an item, whereas a patent defect is obvious or immediately apparent upon observation. As my bike tucks neatly into the definition of a latent defect, I can only say one thing, it is a design flaw/defect. Had this defect, and the damage it caused, continued without my attention, the carbon triangle could have failed with catastrophic consequences. I appreciate your reply, but for my particular issue, and others that drew me to this forum, it does not apply.

The fix: I fabricated a stainless shim 17mm x 1mm thick to solve this issue, but for $6139,60 USD, I should not have to, nor should anyone else. My purpose for posting, is to make aware to the prospective buyer, the issues that they may encounter purchasing a YT Decoy. It also serves as a reference for anyone that might be going through this same issue, and wishes to take on the burden of correcting it themselves. As with most everyone on here, I would like to spend my time riding, not correcting manufacturing defects. Thanks again for your reply.

Not debating the fact it is OK, I actually agree with you for the most part. It is very sloppy work from YT. There quality check procedure is not really up to par I would say. Also, it would be much better if YT just acknowledges this like they did with other members as their fault.
However, I think if a 1mm shim fixes it, it would have never lead to total failure of the frame. Unless there is some serious play in the bearings, but that is then another problem. Seems that it is just the paint layer that is damaged, although I might be missing something. Is there no damage on the main frame? Just checked my 2 Decoys and they look fine (= no damage).

 

[WNH]

Not debating the fact it is OK, I actually agree with you for the most part. It is very sloppy work from YT. There quality check procedure is not really up to par I would say. Also, it would be much better if YT just acknowledges this like they did with other members as their fault.
However, I think if a 1mm shim fixes it, it would have never lead to total failure of the frame. Unless there is some serious play in the bearings, but that is then another problem. Seems that it is just the paint layer that is damaged, although I might be missing something. Is there no damage on the main frame? Just checked my 2 Decoys and they look fine (= no damage).

100% agree on the failure to acknowledgement and poor quality control. Yes, there is damage to the main frame as well. I do believe I caught it in time, it is actually deeper than the paint layer, but has not disturbed the fibers. I’m acutely aware that all bikes have some issues, however, this is excessive.

Glad to hear your bikes are not affected by this flaw. Cheers to the New Year!

 

[redrhino]

I've had ongoing creaking issues when the frame has side to size load. And, I have the same issue with the drive side chainstay tolerance being too tight and the main frame rubbing the chainstay at the main pivot. Definitely a design and manufacturing flaw. After much back and forth with USA YT service they didn't seem to be aware of the issue and also not aware of any shims, which was a surprise to me. After showing them some earlier threads here and asking about shims other mention, the case was run up to the service manager and ultimately they wanted me to send the bike in to be evaluated. They still didn't seem to have any shims or weren't willing to send me any.

I'd be curios if anyone has a photo and measurements for the shim they are using? I'd like to try that if I can find one with the right dimensions.

I'm not 100% sure the creak is coming from the frame rub though. I paid for new pivot hardware and replaced it on both pivots. It was gone for a while then came back. When I remove and grease the taper washer for each pivot, the creak goes away but then keeps coming back.

I also noticed on my frame that the gap between the chainstay and frame is really large on the left size, but really tight on the right. Curios of others frames are like that? YT seemed to say it was normal.

Super frustrating and ultimately may have to bring the bike back to YT when I can get down there.

 

[Maherto]

I've had ongoing creaking issues when the frame has side to size load. And, I have the same issue with the drive side chainstay tolerance being too tight and the main frame rubbing the chainstay at the main pivot. Definitely a design and manufacturing flaw. After much back and forth with USA YT service they didn't seem to be aware of the issue and also not aware of any shims, which was a surprise to me. After showing them some earlier threads here and asking about shims other mention, the case was run up to the service manager and ultimately they wanted me to send the bike in to be evaluated. They still didn't seem to have any shims or weren't willing to send me any.

I'd be curios if anyone has a photo and measurements for the shim they are using? I'd like to try that if I can find one with the right dimensions.

I'm not 100% sure the creak is coming from the frame rub though. I paid for new pivot hardware and replaced it on both pivots. It was gone for a while then came back. When I remove and grease the taper washer for each pivot, the creak goes away but then keeps coming back.

I also noticed on my frame that the gap between the chainstay and frame is really large on the left size, but really tight on the right. Curios of others frames are like that? YT seemed to say it was normal.

Super frustrating and ultimately may have to bring the bike back to YT when I can get down there.

View attachment 50485

View attachment 50486

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View attachment 50488

Hello maybe they in the work shop in the USA they don't call them shims. It the parts drawings they call them acros washer.
I used a washer originally while waiting for yt to get back to me. The washer was mild steel and was slightly to thick so I ordered some of the shims in the photo. I had to use 4 of them which works out at 0.8mm.
I definitely a flaw in the moulding processes to that has caused the need for shims / spacers or washers.
The washer above is what yt sent me they sent 2 or 3 I can't remember.
The damage to you carbon was similar to mine.
I used the seat stay and the alignment of the bearings at the rear to work out how many shims. What I mean when the seat stays slotted in to the chain stays with having to push them in I knew I was out far enough and their was clearance between the main frame and pivot. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Maherto]

Hello maybe they in the work shop in the USA they don't call them shims. It the parts drawings they call them acros washer.
I used a washer originally while waiting for yt to get back to me. The washer was mild steel and was slightly to thick so I ordered some of the shims in the photo. I had to use 4 of them which works out at 0.8mm.
I definitely a flaw in the moulding processes to that has caused the need for shims / spacers or washers.
The washer above is what yt sent me they sent 2 or 3 I can't remember.
The damage to you carbon was similar to mine.
I used the seat stay and the alignment of the bearings at the rear to work out how many shims. What I mean when the seat stays slotted in to the chain stays with having to push them in I knew I was out far enough and their was clearance between the main frame and pivot. Hope that makes sense.

View attachment 50497

No 9 in parts drawings is the part to tell them in work shop

 

[redrhino]

Thanks for that. Adding another #9 washer was what I actually had asked support about as an option. I said:

"What do you think about also installing one or two extra #9 washers on top of the existing one to try and move the chain stay away from the main frame a little more so the rub doesn’t happen?"

To which they replied:

I spoke to our head mechanic about this and he hadn't done anything of the sort and couldn't suggest it as a solid fix. We haven't seen this type of wear unless there is a missing or worn piece of hardware.

An offset on the main pivot from the drive to non drive side is normal, but the wear on the interface points is unusual. It could possible be from mud/debris during riding, but this would assume that you are riding in rowdy conditions often!

 

[Jedipip]

Thanks for that. Adding another #9 washer was what I actually had asked support about as an option. I said:

"What do you think about also installing one or two extra #9 washers on top of the existing one to try and move the chain stay away from the main frame a little more so the rub doesn’t happen?"

To which they replied:

I spoke to our head mechanic about this and he hadn't done anything of the sort and couldn't suggest it as a solid fix. We haven't seen this type of wear unless there is a missing or worn piece of hardware.

An offset on the main pivot from the drive to non drive side is normal, but the wear on the interface points is unusual. It could possible be from mud/debris during riding, but this would assume that you are riding in rowdy conditions often!

‘rowdy conditions often’.....?

yup!

I found that if my Main Pivot is torqued up and lubed then all is well. Mine creaked when the bearings had been run in ‘rowdy conditions’ and everything needed to come out and be refitted due to being FUBAR. I had to use some ‘rowdy’ techniques to get the main pivot out as it pulled the chain stay into the motor housing whilst being extracted.
The universally well know technique of beating the shit out of everything eventually works and new bearings and main pivot all went back in and it’s creak free. It’s now on a 6 weekly extract, regrease and lube up schedule.

 

[redrhino]

Ha! Hopefully you'll remain creak free. In my case we haven't had more than two inches of rain since last winter, so it has just been dry conditions. I did check and repack the bearings when I last had the pivots apart. They were fairly dry, but not seized up at all.

My current attempt at alleviating the creak is adding park tool anti-seize compound to the taper washer to axel interface. Previously I was using grease, but the creaks come back pretty quickly. I think I may be getting creaks from both the pressed in taper washers and the frame rub.

 

[Jedipip]

Ha! Hopefully you'll remain creak free. In my case we haven't had more than two inches of rain since last winter, so it has just been dry conditions. I did check and repack the bearings when I last had the pivots apart. They were fairly dry, but not seized up at all.

My current attempt at alleviating the creak is adding park tool anti-seize compound to the taper washer to axel interface. Previously I was using grease, but the creaks come back pretty quickly. I think I may be getting creaks from both the pressed in taper washers and the frame rub.

We had 2 inches of rain before breakfast today.

And then what seemed like an inch an hour all day. Old castles have now got their moats back, seriously! It was empty yesterday.

‘copper slip’ is working best for me. It’s like the daddy of all grease and seems to pretty much solve everything here in the UK (even brake squeal ?).

 

[Maherto]

Ha! Hopefully you'll remain creak free. In my case we haven't had more than two inches of rain since last winter, so it has just been dry conditions. I did check and repack the bearings when I last had the pivots apart. They were fairly dry, but not seized up at all.

My current attempt at alleviating the creak is adding park tool anti-seize compound to the taper washer to axel interface. Previously I was using grease, but the creaks come back pretty quickly. I think I may be getting creaks from both the pressed in taper washers and the frame rub.

I suppose no matter what way you look at two parts of the frame should not be touching full stop your pictures show the carbon has being damaged by the rubbing you have photos which show the lack of clearance so it's not dirt that has caused it. Strange the way their is difference between USA and Europe. I would judging by the post here deal with the USA than Europe.

 

[redrhino]

I suppose no matter what way you look at two parts of the frame should not be touching full stop your pictures show the carbon has being damaged by the rubbing you have photos which show the lack of clearance so it's not dirt that has caused it. Strange the way their is difference between USA and Europe. I would judging by the post here deal with the USA than Europe.

View attachment 50546

Yeah this is quite strange. Support in Europe seems to respond to it as though it is a common issue, whereas the responses I got for the US support made it sound as if my support request was the first time they ever heard of such a thing.

 

[Maherto]

Yeah this is quite strange. Support in Europe seems to respond to it as though it is a common issue, whereas the responses I got for the US support made it sound as if my support request was the first time they ever heard of such a thing.

I suppose if the admit it then you could say it was assembled wrong I want a new main frame and chain stay. They playing a cute game like all companies! Welcome to the yt
family right lol

 

[Fatbap]

So I finally got round to servicing my bike lol. I took some pics of the sim I made with measurements the bike has run flawlessly since I done this. the bearings are in great shape just repacked them with grease.

 

[Jedipip]

Good work FB!
for the record mine came with one fitted to one side and not on the other. Although there is clearly room for it.....
I rebuilt (after struggling so much to dismantle) put new bearings in and packed with grease and copper slip on the external areas to provide a more resilient ‘seal’ and it’s been faultless all winter. And it is getting some hammer with our UK weather.

 

[Fatbap]

Good work FB!
for the record mine came with one fitted to one side and not on the other. Although there is clearly room for it.....
I rebuilt (after struggling so much to dismantle) put new bearings in and packed with grease and copper slip on the external areas to provide a more resilient ‘seal’ and it’s been faultless all winter. And it is getting some hammer with our UK weather.

Awesome news dude glad u got it sorted. Mine just has the washer/seal fitted either side as stock. But I’m a happy man now lol except my fox factory dropper is sticking constantly so sending it off to silverfish tomorrow for warranty