Lightening up an ebike

[NZSpokes]

I swapped out my DHR/Assagai mix for Mavic Quests yesterday and saved 1.1kg.

I will see how they do on the weekend. Im 50/50 on this being a good idea.

 

[Gary]

You could have just swapped the Maxxis to exo casings and saved nearly as much

 

[NZSpokes]

You could have just swapped the Maxxis to exo casings and saved nearly as much

I got them free with some wheels I bought.

 

[Clubby]

how Heavy Is the rear double down tyre , the heavyduty high roller my commencal came with on the back didn’t help . Fitting the lighter casing protected with a light rat bite insert made a big difference to how light it felt

According to Maxxis website, in 27.5x2.5 the DD is 190g heavier than the EXO casing. Rat bite insert is approx 100g, so 90ish gram saving. I think a lot of the difference you felt is due the casing rather than the weight. DD tyres can feel a bit dead, almost like too much rebound damping on your rear shock. Can be great in hard rocky terrain, but not so good in rolling trails.

Interesting article on NSMB regarding inserts vs casing, albeit with using Cushcore.

NSMB.com - Is Cushcore Preferable to a Heavier Tire Casing?

Does slapping on a heavier-duty tire produce produce better results than an insert in a lighter one?

nsmb.com

Interesting thought to add here my 18 commencal meta race 27.5 was under 23kg.
My new trek rail 9 is about 24.5 kg with a 38mm zeb and 29er . I was expecting more of a bulldozer , yet it Feels lighter and lot more playful than the old bike. . Maybe it’s the weight distribution that’s better

Manufacturers have learned how to use the weight distribution to their advantage and work around the disadvantages. Motors also have more torque now and the software controlling them is improving all the time.
Mate has an older Merida, with lighter tyres and smaller battery that’s noticeably lighter than my Whyte, but tried mine back to back on same local loop. Cleared sections uphill and was faster downhill on the Whyte on his first ride of it. Hardly scientific but still.

 

[Kernow]

According to Maxxis website, in 27.5x2.5 the DD is 190g heavier than the EXO casing. Rat bite insert is approx 100g, so 90ish gram saving. I think a lot of the difference you felt is due the casing rather than the weight. DD tyres can feel a bit dead, almost like too much rebound damping on your rear shock. Can be great in hard rocky terrain, but not so good in rolling trails.

Interesting article on NSMB regarding inserts vs casing, albeit with using Cushcore.

NSMB.com - Is Cushcore Preferable to a Heavier Tire Casing?

Does slapping on a heavier-duty tire produce produce better results than an insert in a lighter one?

nsmb.com

Manufacturers have learned how to use the weight distribution to their advantage and work around the disadvantages. Motors also have more torque now and the software controlling them is improving all the time.
Mate has an older Merida, with lighter tyres and smaller battery that’s noticeably lighter than my Whyte, but tried mine back to back on same local loop. Cleared sections uphill and was faster downhill on the Whyte on his first ride of it. Hardly scientific but still.

interesting article that on cushcore comparisons we’ve done similar comparisons with a few different inserts . the Cushcore works ok but it’s heavy a and can be a pig to fit some tyres , the light foam like ratbite has a much better feel and seems to more be effective.
what you say was kind of my point without knowing what tyres were talking about here it’s not necessarily the actual wieght it’s the dead feeling the heavy casing or cushcore can give on normal riding , that only comes into its own on extreme riding . Some tyres have as much as 4oog difference between them.

 

[NZSpokes]

Maybe we should discuss Titanium motor mount bolts.....

 

[NZSpokes]

I swapped out my DHR/Assagai mix for Mavic Quests yesterday and saved 1.1kg.

I will see how they do on the weekend. Im 50/50 on this being a good idea.

Turn out its a great idea. Bike is a lot quicker on the climbs.

 

[Mteam]

Turn out its a great idea. Bike is a lot quicker on the climbs.

never heard of those - have you got a link to the exact tyre you're referring to? they look pretty light (if I'm looking at the right tyre), but also like I'd puncture them within 200m .

Whats the grip like?

I'm reluctant to move away from my maxxis dhr/dhr combo ....

 

[Clubby]

Family commitments have stopped me riding for the last few weeks, but managed to escape to the garage for a bit of man time this morning. Choose my bike specs to try to stay within the same parts ecosystem, currently Sram and Rockshox. For full sus I also like the playful feel of 27.5 wheels. All his means I have a selection of wheels to play around with with different tyres.

Being a bit bored, I though I’d get the scales out and swap the wheels from my trail bike to the ebike and see what difference it made. All set up tubeless, ready to ride with 200mm Sram rotor.

Front.

Stock. Whyte branded hub. WTB 30mm id rim, 2.5 DHF exo+. 2258g.
Trail bike. Hope pro2 WTB 25mm id rim, 2.3 Shorty exo. 2175g
Current winter wheel. Formula hub WTB 30mm id rim, 2.5 Shorty DD. 2366g

Rear.

Stock. Whyte ebike hub. WTB 30mm id rim. NX Eagle 11-50, 2.5 High roller 2 DD. 3289g
Trail bike. Hope pro2, WTB 25mm id rim, GX Eagle 10-50, 2.3 DHR2 exo. 2640g

With the fronts to be honest, when handling them there didn’t feel much between them. It was only really noticeable between between my current winter wheel and the trail bike wheel (191g difference). Despite the narrower rim on the trail bike, I reckon the bare wheels would be pretty similar in weight.
The rears were a different matter. The weight difference (649g) was immediately noticeable.

Picking the bike up proved nothing. I feel like the bike felt a bit lighter (total saving 840g), but it’s probably just confirmation bias and certainly not wow what a difference.

I think the biggest difference will be on the trails from the tyres. I know when I put the winter front on that the double down casing with maxxgrip compound felt a bit numb. Stock rear is also DD casing but maxxterra compound, both 2.5s. The trail bike set up are both 2.3 in exo maxxterra. Never particularly needed more on the trail bike, or had problems with tyre slashes where I ride and hoping despite the extra weight of ebike, that won’t change.

Also have a spare 2.4 DHR 2 in exo maxxterra. Think that this on the trail bike rear with the stock front wheel could be a good summer combo.

All complete speculation until I get a chance to ride, but still a morning well wasted.

 

[Orinoko]

I’ve removed the brose motor from my Levo to send it to Performance line bearings to be upgraded and the bike feels lovely n light at the moment though tricky with no pedals.?

 

[R120]

I’ve removed the brose motor from my Levo to send it to Performance line bearings to be upgraded and the bike feels lovely n light at the moment though tricky with no pedals.?

Sounds like a great upgrade

 

[Mteam]

I have ordered a couple of High Roller 2's to replace the WTB Vigilante/Verdicts on the Whyte.

Nothing at all wrong with the WTB's but I am definitely more trail orientated than enduro, so the compromise in toughness and grip, for lighter / faster rolling should be suited to my most of my riding, and acceptable for the rest.

2.3" 2C EXO for the rear, and a 2.4" 3C EXO for the front.

I don't expect to feel the loss of 600g, but lets see if it feels quicker and eeks out a little more range. Great even longer rides

If I don't like it, I will revert back. simples.

I think you would definitely notice a difference from the lighter tyres - hopefully you wont also get loads of punctures.

 

[matt_thebeard]

So, my bike (orbea wild fs m team) weighs 23.3kg with pedals , its got reasonably high end components on it (shimano xt12 speed gears and brakes, dt Swiss hx 1501 wheels, carbon handlebars, etc) from the factory, it has a carbon frame, maxxis dhf 2.5 exo tyre of the front, and Dhr doubledown on the back, set up tubeless. 200mm brake discs front and rear, It has the 625wh battery.

What can I do to drop significant weight from it without spending a fortune or Compromising on durability and ability downhill?

The only option I can come up with is buying an additional 500wh battery, and using that for most rides, keeping the 625wh battery for big rides, that would drop it to about 22.5kg, but I'm wondering if anyone has any clever/thinking outside the box ways of shedding weight without affecting the things that matter.

randomly as an experiment last night i unplugged my battery (bosch 625) and took my cube stereo 160 for a ride without it,. wow the difference is mind blowing, i thought the bike was good before, trouble is i live in a seriously hilly area (south wales ) so lots of climbs were granny ring and spite lol but the bike practically floated into the air for hops, if they ever find a way to make those batteries lighter we will be in gods pocket on the ebike , try it for a few miles ;-)

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

randomly as an experiment last night i unplugged my battery (bosch 625) and took my cube stereo 160 for a ride without it,. wow the difference is mind blowing, i thought the bike was good before, trouble is i live in a seriously hilly area (south wales ) so lots of climbs were granny ring and spite lol but the bike practically floated into the air for hops, if they ever find a way to make those batteries lighter we will be in gods pocket on the ebike , try it for a few miles ;-)

Cool experiment!

Agree, a few kilos make a huge difference. Just tested a Lapierre Overvolt GLP 2 that weighed 21.4 kg, a massive difference in the feel vs the 24 kg tanks that I am used to ride. Sometimes I wonder if it really is a good thing that the bike industry is going for larger batteries.

 

[Clubby]

Sometimes I wonder if it really is a good thing that the bike industry is going for larger batteries.

I think it is. I already drain my 625w battery on longer rides, no way would I want to go smaller or I would be seriously restricted to eco or tour for the majority of the ride. Where’s the fun in that?

 

[Beekeeper]

Insert this into bottle cage and follow the instructions.
You will notice your range steadily improves every ride

 

[matt_thebeard]

Cool experiment!

Agree, a few kilos make a huge difference. Just tested a Lapierre Overvolt GLP 2 that weighed 21.4 kg, a massive difference in the feel vs the 24 kg tanks that I am used to ride. Sometimes I wonder if it really is a good thing that the bike industry is going for larger batteries.

ah right?? 21kg is significant, how close to an analogue bike weight did it feel? it makes you wonder what the crazy expensive specialised sl 17kg must be like to ride eh? 12k for a bike tho... lets wait on lighter batteries haha cmon Tesla get into bike batteries please?

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

ah right?? 21kg is significant, how close to an analogue bike weight did it feel? it makes you wonder what the crazy expensive specialised sl 17kg must be like to ride eh? 12k for a bike tho... lets wait on lighter batteries haha cmon Tesla get into bike batteries please?

I only tested it in deep snow and on ice, so it is difficult to say. We had a 24 kg eMTB there too and the Lapierre felt a lot livelier. But I need to test it again when it gets warmer. I really like the idea of a full power, full-on enduro eMTB that does not weigh too much.

I have also tested a Levo SL (Comp Carbon) that weighed 19 kg with pedals and tubes, best/most fun bike I have tested so far.

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

I think it is. I already drain my 625w battery on longer rides, no way would I want to go smaller or I would be seriously restricted to eco or tour for the majority of the ride. Where’s the fun in that?

We all have different needs. I rarely use up a 500 Wh battery, but I don't live in the mountains.

 

[matt_thebeard]

I only tested it in deep snow and on ice, so it is difficult to say. We had a 24 kg eMTB there too and the Lapierre felt a lot livelier. But I need to test it again when it gets warmer. I really like the idea of a full power, full-on enduro eMTB that does not weigh too much.

I have also tested a Levo SL (Comp Carbon) that weighed 19 kg with pedals and tubes, best/most fun bike I have tested so far.

!!that's the bike i meant yes, the levo SL, nice, was it in your opinion worth twice what a mid level ebike would cost at 4k say? that's the part i struggled with, i mean its possible it could be ,,,dont tell me it is i'm broke already haha yes a super light long distance endure would be amazing, im sure it will happen fairly soon the industry has blown up hasnt it and probably the untapped area of the market are the guys gals who really like throwing a lighter bike around, so if that was an option im sure more would migrate to the ebike

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

!!that's the bike i meant yes, the levo SL, nice, was it in your opinion worth twice what a mid level ebike would cost at 4k say? that's the part i struggled with, i mean its possible it could be ,,,dont tell me it is i'm broke already haha yes a super light long distance endure would be amazing, im sure it will happen fairly soon the industry has blown up hasnt it and probably the untapped area of the market are the guys gals who really like throwing a lighter bike around, so if that was an option im sure more would migrate to the ebike

First of all, the bike is a very nice bike that shouldn't be confused with a "cheap" 4k bike. But still, I am struggling with the price too. I think it is too costly.

There are other lightweight options out there though, the Lapierre is perhaps not a lightweight in that sense, but it is a lot of value for money. Orbea Rise is another one. There are more, check Sam's Bikes video here:

 

[matt_thebeard]

First of all, the bike is a very nice bike that shouldn't be confused with a "cheap" 4k bike. But still, I am struggling with the price too. I think it is too costly.

There are other lightweight options out there though, the Lapierre is perhaps not a lightweight in that sense, but it is a lot of value for money. Orbea Rise is another one. There are more, check Sam's Bikes video here:

i have the £4200 cube stereo which i love and dont class as cheap but i meant in comparison with the s works turbo levo xl at near 13k lol i love the fact that the cube is an enduro tank meaning a newbie like me can lob at it most things with out too much worry but as you say if we had an option of the same quality of bike but 4-5kg lighter it really would make a huge difference to manouverability etc and lifting it over gates fences lol i have to stay away from looking at other bikes for a while but its good research for upgrade time isnt it ;-)

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

i have the £4200 cube stereo which i love and dont class as cheap but i meant in comparison with the s works turbo levo xl at near 13k lol i love the fact that the cube is an enduro tank meaning a newbie like me can lob at it most things with out too much worry but as you say if we had an option of the same quality of bike but 4-5kg lighter it really would make a huge difference to manouverability etc and lifting it over gates fences lol i have to stay away from looking at other bikes for a while but its good research for upgrade time isnt it ;-)

Sorry, didn't mean to say that your bike was cheap. ?
Bikes that cost 13k are prime examples of the law of diminishing returns.

I think there will be more lightweight options out there in the near future.

 

[matt_thebeard]

First of all, the bike is a very nice bike that shouldn't be confused with a "cheap" 4k bike. But still, I am struggling with the price too. I think it is too costly.

There are other lightweight options out there though, the Lapierre is perhaps not a lightweight in that sense, but it is a lot of value for money. Orbea Rise is another one. There are more, check Sam's Bikes video here:

that NOX though ... hahaha ;-)

 

[Zimmerframe]

lets wait on lighter batteries haha cmon Tesla get into bike batteries please?

Probably won't help us. The latest Tesla batteries are the 4680's .... These look great at first sight .. FIVE times the energy of the old cells !!!!

But .. and there's always a but .. they're almost 5 times the size. So actually only about 16% better energy density from moving to a much larger cell with a slightly lower production cost. There are numerous other ups and downs, but ultimately, being larger, they won't pack into a small area (downtube) as easily/effectively as smaller cells. Great for a large vehicle battery though.