Levo or Levo SL - can't decide

[PhilBaker]

Hey Brook,

Looks like you've got some great advice already! One thing I would really consider is how much you weigh and how fit you are.

Repeating a little of what's been said, I'd look at it like this:-

Get the SL if:-

• You are already cycle fit and can climb well on a normal analogue bike
• You don't weigh that much
• You mainly ride XC, a but of enduro from time to time

Get the FF Levo if:-

• Your not that fit
• Your heavy
• You mainly want to ride big ups and big downs

I guess what I mean is in my view if you 20 stone and not fit, you'll enjoy the FF Levo way more.

I'm very cycle fit and weigh 75kg. I have a full fat bike and it feels heavy (obviously!) and a little more cumbersome to the light weight XC full suss riding I've been used to over the last 20 years. Don't get wrong, I LOVE the power, it eats hills and climb well and depends well, but I'm fit and light enough to get up those hills on a SL.

I've ridden my old 13kg XC bike a bit lately and compared to my FF EMTB there is definitely something I miss about the lightweight style of riding.

I think you would love both, but if your fit and not too heavy, it may be a no brainer to go SL in my opinion.

My next EMTB purchase probably in a year or so, will be a lightweight EMTB for sure.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Hey Brook,

Looks like you've got some great advice already! One thing I would really consider is how much you weigh and how fit you are.

Repeating a little of what's been said, I'd look at it like this:-

Get the SL if:-

• You are already cycle fit and can climb well on a normal analogue bike
• You don't weigh that much
• You mainly ride XC, a but of enduro from time to time

Get the FF Levo if:-

• Your not that fit
• Your heavy
• You mainly want to ride big ups and big downs

I guess what I mean is in my view if you 20 stone and not fit, you'll enjoy the FF Levo way more.

I'm very cycle fit and weigh 75kg. I have a full fat bike and it feels heavy (obviously!) and a little more cumbersome to the light weight XC full suss riding I've been used to over the last 20 years. Don't get wrong, I LOVE the power, it eats hills and climb well and depends well, but I'm fit and light enough to get up those hills on a SL.

I've ridden my old 13kg XC bike a bit lately and compared to my FF EMTB there is definitely something I miss about the lightweight style of riding.

I think you would love both, but if your fit and not too heavy, it may be a no brainer to go SL in my opinion.

My next EMTB purchase probably in a year or so, will be a lightweight EMTB for sure.

Very well put! Been riding mtbs since their inception and remember when my original bikes before any type of suspension was invented weighted more than my modern day Levo! Technology has come a long way! I've found my riding style preference has changed quite a bit sine the late 80's/90's "big air" ride with wreckless abandon style that landed me in the hospital and is a primary factor in my ability to forecast cold weather from all my broken bones! One thing I was surprised about after riding my Levo for a month and not taking my acoustic/analog/clockwork (fill in the blank) bike out is how fast I became accustomed to the riding cha3rteristics of a heavier bike that had a much different center of gravity. I actually prefer a more weighted bike now that keeps me more planted. I mix in road biking so I can spend some time in the saddle with wifey and before COVID-19, was riding 4-5 centuries a year. Can't climb like a billy goat like when I was in my 20/30's but don't consider myself a slouch either. Being transparent, there are some cons to riding a heavier bike, but to be the pro's outweigh them. I'm fortunate to have a YT Decoy that is an absolute mad man on the downhills so I don't feel I've given up any substantial abilites since transitioning to emtb's. I took my Canyon Torque to a bike park after riding the Levo exclusively for a spell and had to re-adapt to the riding characteristics of a lighter bike.

 

[ecotrials]

Hi Brook,
I demo'd a 2020 Levi Comp and a Levo Expert SL.
I am 70, 175 lbs, reasonably fit, and ride in a very hilly off-road park, primarily on fire roads. When I say hilly, the steepest bits measured with BLEvo app app are 33.9%, and another I recently discovered is even steeper. My riding style is to use minimal assistance, so my rides are typically over 50% with assistance off. I down shift to the lowest gear before using eco. And shift to trail when I almost come to a stop, and save turbo for only the very steepest bits. Eco is set from 15 to 50% trail set from 50 to 85%, and turbo 100%.
I drop down to less assistance as soon as I am able.
I first tried the FF Levo, and was totally captivated by its capability. My analog bike is a 31 year old Rockhopper Comp with a 16 tooth front quad ring, which allowed me to climb some hills, typically up to around 22 to 24% depending on available traction. With shorter chain stays I struggled to keep the front wheel on the ground in some cases, despite moving the seat fully forward.
The Comp made it up every hill I tried, although I had not yet found the steepest.
The SL my LBS let me have for 2 days and I did a couple of long rides. But the maximum wattage provided was around 350, perhaps just under. A few times on steep bits I found myself shifting to turbo, but didn't get any additional boost. It turns out I was already at max power in trail so going to turbo had no effect. So there were several times I could not finish a climb without dismounting and walking/pushing the bike. As my riding technique improves that might change things a little. Also the SL has a 325 watt/hour battery, so less than half the FF. By comparison the Comp has 700whr battery, and max output seen is around 750 watts, so double the power.
At my age I expect to get a bit weaker over time. So I bought the Comp. I could not be happier, perfect bike for me and my needs. Hope that helps. Ymmv (your mileage might vary) meaning if you have different goals, style, terrain, physucal differences Yada Yada Yada....

The thing I love best is how this bike has opened up the park for me. I'm no longer concerned that I might go down a trail and have difficulty getting back. It used to be 12 miles or so was my limit. Now I find myself doing 20 miles plus quite regularly. Planning on 27 miler tomorrow.
Oh. Another benefit, no more bad leg days. If I do find my legs a bit sluggish, I just use the assistance slightly sooner and still get a great wworkout. Hope you find your dream bike!
Have fun!

 

[brook__]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Some really great advice in there. Haven't had a chance to read over every comment properly yet but will try to this evening.

On a side note, I've now sold my standard mtb so I have the deposit ready for my e bike ?

 

[congerball]

I sometimes use my Levo for commuting, after work when it’s dark and cold and you just want to get home quick, you can’t beat sticking it into shuttle mode and spinning them pedals, home in no time ?
Don’t get the “fat free” option ?

 

[brook__]

I sometimes use my Levo for commuting, after work when it’s dark and cold and you just want to get home quick, you can’t beat sticking it into shuttle mode and spinning them pedals, home in no time ?
Don’t get the “fat free” option ?

This is the thing, when the rain’s pouring or the temp is really low I’ll just want to get home quickly and easy as possible...

Would I still be able to get some fitness in on a full fat if I wanted to?

 

[PhilBaker]

Definitely, I ride longer and harder on my Full Fat than I did on my normal XC bike.

It encourages you to "explore"and go places or up hills you would not normally go to, so yes you can definitely get fitness.

Just depends on the type of ride and feel and handling you are looking for Brook

 

[JoeBlow]

This is the thing, when the rain’s pouring or the temp is really low I’ll just want to get home quickly and easy as possible...

Would I still be able to get some fitness in on a full fat if I wanted to?

Leave it in eco, turn the motor off, pedal faster. Are you aware that there is a restriction to the assistance the motor will give. 15 mph I believe. When I've been out on mine for a couple of hours I return just as tired as I did on an none assisted bike but find that I have done more miles. It's most definitely not a free ride but if fitness is your aim go analog.

 

[squeegee]

Would I still be able to get some fitness in on a full fat if I wanted to?

On large elevation climbs or places where you can actually exert yourself yes, you get out what you put in just like an analog.

On certain trails FF motors are overkill, and you will likely not get as much of a workout, it all depends just like which assist mode you use.

 

[brook__]

Definitely, I ride longer and harder on my Full Fat than I did on my normal XC bike.

It encourages you to "explore"and go places or up hills you would not normally go to, so yes you can definitely get fitness.

Just depends on the type of ride and feel and handling you are looking for Brook

That’s good to know. Fitness isn’t my main goal but it would be nice to lose a bit of weight from commuting a few days a week.

 

[brook__]

On large elevation climbs or places where you can actually exert yourself yes, you get out what you put in just like an analog.

On certain trails FF motors are overkill, and you will likely not get as much of a workout, it all depends just like which assist mode you use.

I guess you can make the workout as easy or hard as you like then really.

I’m leaning back towards the ff now...

 

[brook__]

Leave it in eco, turn the motor off, pedal faster. Are you aware that there is a restriction to the assistance the motor will give. 15 mph I believe. When I've been out on mine for a couple of hours I return just as tired as I did on an none assisted bike but find that I have done more miles. It's most definitely not a free ride but if fitness is your aim go analog.

Yeah limited to 15 mph in the UK.
This is what I found when I demo’d the SL, I rode around 10 miles more than I usually would on my standard mtb. I also rode to parts of the trails I wouldn’t usually even think about going to.

 

[KeithR]

I’m leaning back towards the ff now...

They're definitely less fun than the SL, though - does that matter to you?

 

[brook__]

They're definitely less fun than the SL, though - does that matter to you?

I definitely still want a bike I can have fun on.

 

[brook__]

Probably worth mentioning that the bike will pretty much be my main mode of transport...

 

[brook__]

Got both a Levo and SL...as others mentioned, the SL is noticeably slower going up.

I definitely get more exercise on the SL (more tired after riding it).

I usually ride alone...but I would prefer riding the Levo over the SL if riding with other ebikes...(I’m also not very fit).

I‘m not sure how long I will keep both...still dialing in the SL.

Mine are about 54 lbs vs 41 lbs (with extender)...I’m less worried about getting a hernia lifting my SL into my truck bed!

Interesting. So would you say the climbs are still just as easy on the SL but slower?

 

[brook__]

Dont commute on it as thieves will end up following you home and nicking it

I don’t think I’ve got much choice in that to be honest. I could buy a cheap e commuter but I wouldn’t be able to ride trails on it and would end up buying another bike anyway ? I’d prefer to have one ‘do it all’ bike.

 

[squeegee]

Watch this if you have some spare time, lots of insight about SL/Levo/Kenevo, I think will affirm your direction

 

[brook__]

Watch this if you have some spare time, lots of insight about SL/Levo/Kenevo, I think will affirm your direction

I’ll have a watch now ?

 

[brook__]

Watch this if you have some spare time, lots of insight about SL/Levo/Kenevo, I think will affirm your direction

Really helpful and very interesting... I have to say watching that video has swayed me towards the ff.

They call the ff Levo an all rounder and a do it all bike. At this point, that’s what I need...
As I don’t have access to a car, I’ll be using the bike for everything, including riding to my local trails.
Maybe if I had a car and could transport the bike to the trails then I’d go for the SL but for now, I think it’s the full fat that I need.

 

[BadPiggy]

Another thing to consider that I have not seen mentioned here is removal of the battery as it pertains to storage of your bike, and storage of your bike in your climate, namely temperature extremes. I live in the middle southern U.S.A (Arkansas to be exact), and the climate is highly variable, with out ebikes being kept in the Garage. Summers are hot and humid with actual temperatures of 100F/38C or above not common some years (110F/43C in August 2011), and winter actual temperatures reaching -5F/-21C or colder some years (-25F/-32C in February 2011). Garage temperatures can vary from 115+F/46C to 10-15F/-10C or colder. THAT WOULD NOT BE GOOD ON THE BATTERY! So for us, relative ease of removal of the battery was an absolute requirement.

 

[Rusty]

On a side note, I've now sold my standard mtb so I have the deposit ready for my e bike ?

I am told moving to an eMTB is a bit like AA - once you have made the committment the decision becomes easier.

Then again, another buddy equates my bike dealership to the local drug dealer .... always out to sell you a high.

 

[miPbiP]

I've an FF and a lung bike - great combo IMO. Out with my mates on group rides I take (took!) the lunger.

Solo rides, say 60-90 mins, I take the FF and have at it, don't hold the horses. It's also the right bike for riding with others on FF. We zip about ticking the boxes. And come back knackered.

As for fitness - that's up to you, it's nothing to do with the bike. If you work hard you'll get fitter, and one big win is an e helps you ride more frequently and be less tired. (Intervals get you fit, being tired just wears you out).

I would consider a lightweight bike if I was going to be restricted to just one bike, I think they're sweet too.

 

[R120]

Out of interest why the Levo, given you have a Trek would you not look at the Trek Rail?

I dont have one, but IMO the Trek is probably the best all round package at the moment, a great riding bike, but also one with lots of neat details that are of benefit to day to day use, like the battery removal system.

I would also be concerned with Specilizeds reliability record with the Brose motor on the FF model - its essential you get one from a good dealer, and specialised have a good reputation for sorting issues, but if the bike is going to be you main mode of transport I would want to get the most reliable system I could, and a bike in the workshop is a bike you are not riding.

If I was commuting with the bike too I would definitely go with an FF, as others have said the extra power has two benefits, the ability to get the hell out of doge a lot easier in bad weather, but also if you just stick it in boost you can get to work without breaking a sweat, useful if you dont have showers at work!

 

[brook__]

Out of interest why the Levo, given you have a Trek would you not look at the Trek Rail?

I dont have one, but IMO the Trek is probably the best all round package at the moment, a great riding bike, but also one with lots of neat details that are of benefit to day to day use, like the battery removal system.

I would also be concerned with Specilizeds reliability record with the Brose motor on the FF model - its essential you get one from a good dealer, and specialised have a good reputation for sorting issues, but if the bike is going to be you main mode of transport I would want to get the most reliable system I could, and a bike in the workshop is a bike you are not riding.

If I was commuting with the bike too I would definitely go with an FF, as others have said the extra power has two benefits, the ability to get the hell out of doge a lot easier in bad weather, but also if you just stick it in boost you can get to work without breaking a sweat, useful if you dont have showers at work!

I was initially only looking at the SL, so I guess I've just gone from there really. I have always liked the look of the Levo's but you're right I should probably have a look at what Trek have to offer.
I'll have bit more of a look into the Rail. What are the specs, weight and power output wise?

This is the thing, we don't have any showers at work and this will pretty much be my main means of transport as well as a trail bike. I feel like the full fat will be more of an all rounder and will be able to handle anything I chuck at it. If I'm a little tired and feel like doing the commute as easily as possible, I can just stick it in turbo and cruise all the way.

 

[brook__]

I've an FF and a lung bike - great combo IMO. Out with my mates on group rides I take (took!) the lunger.

Solo rides, say 60-90 mins, I take the FF and have at it, don't hold the horses. It's also the right bike for riding with others on FF. We zip about ticking the boxes. And come back knackered.

As for fitness - that's up to you, it's nothing to do with the bike. If you work hard you'll get fitter, and one big win is an e helps you ride more frequently and be less tired. (Intervals get you fit, being tired just wears you out).

I would consider a lightweight bike if I was going to be restricted to just one bike, I think they're sweet too.

Lung bike I'll still have a Trek roscoe that I may or may not sell so I'll potentially still have access to a lightweight hardtail trail bike when I want a blast!

That's good to know about the fitness, I guess it's more of a manageable level of exercise rather than coughing up a lung at the top of the climbs.

I'm thinking a ff will do the job for now and I'll maybe consider an SL when I have access to a car again and can travel to different trails. ?

 

[brook__]

I am told moving to an eMTB is a bit like AA - once you have made the committment the decision becomes easier.

Then again, another buddy equates my bike dealership to the local drug dealer.... always out to sell you a high.

I think that's probably true. I was sold on getting an e bike after the first few pedal strokes when I tried out the SL.
The tough part is then deciding if you want a lightweight or a full fat.

I think for my current situation the full fat fits best. If I had a car, I'd 100% be going for the SL.

• No access to a car so need a bike that I can ride to my local trails, do some laps and then ride home.
• Main mode of transport so something that I can get around town on (potentially removing the need for a car).
• Would like to commute a few days a week. No showers at work so would like to be as least sweaty as possible.
• Would like to be able to commute and then hit the trails after work in the summer and then ride home.

I know I could just have separate commuter and trail bikes but I'd really like a 'do it all' bike that could cover all of the above.

 

[Link]

i was in the same dilemma as you, and in the end went FF, my thinking all along was i wanted something different, i.e. the fun of the extra power, there didn't seem much point going half way with less power, when (in theory) i can ride the FF as slow as the the SL but cannot ride the SL as far or fast as the FF, talking about power here. I was pretty sure at some point i would regret not going FF, that could be ona ride with others on FF or even when the market moves on and the SL type bike gets more power etc. I don't need a emtb because i cannot ride fast on a regular mtb, i am buying it for something different and to have max fun, kind of like a Motorcross bike but with the health benefits. i knew i would always ask myself what a FF would be like if i got the SL, if i want something more nimble i will take one of my other regular bikes. Just my thoughts, but def happy i went FF

 

[JoeBlow]

I too have no regrets regarding going FF but I'm 73 old with limited skills and experience. From my perspective it seemed a little counter intuitive to want a bike that offered assisted pedaling to then compromise on that assistance let alone pay extra in both monetary and performance (Battery, power and mileage) characteristics for the privilege. I tried a Levo SL it was undoubtedly lighter than a Levo but still not something I would want to lift over a gate. I was unable to pedal up hills that I breezed up on my FF so for me it was a no brainer.

Al

 

[brook__]

i was in the same dilemma as you, and in the end went FF, my thinking all along was i wanted something different, i.e. the fun of the extra power, there didn't seem much point going half way with less power, when (in theory) i can ride the FF as slow as the the SL but cannot ride the SL as far or fast as the FF, talking about power here. I was pretty sure at some point i would regret not going FF, that could be ona ride with others on FF or even when the market moves on and the SL type bike gets more power etc. I don't need a emtb because i cannot ride fast on a regular mtb, i am buying it for something different and to have max fun, kind of like a Motorcross bike but with the health benefits. i knew i would always ask myself what a FF would be like if i got the SL, if i want something more nimble i will take one of my other regular bikes. Just my thoughts, but def happy i went FF

Very good point. I guess some people are looking for a completely different experience to a standard mtb so would prefer the FF.
I've ridden moto in the past so maybe the weight won't be so much of an issue for me.

I was thinking the same thing about the SL... with the Orbea Rise being released as a lightweight bike outputting 65nm (I think), will Specialized be updating the 2022 SL to compete in someway.