Are you sure you're bankrupt by 2026?
Levo Gen 3 Levo Gen 4 2024 Rumours... And assorted random chat ....
- Thread starter Eduardoramundo
- Start date
DuncanDoughnuts
Active member
Lets hope its something really special.... its going to take something brilliant to pull me away from the Vala I have my eye on.
On another note... I see there are more bikes coming with the DJI motor...... now just imagine if it was on a gen4 Levo...... Specialized would be unstoppable...... until it breaks
On another note... I see there are more bikes coming with the DJI motor...... now just imagine if it was on a gen4 Levo...... Specialized would be unstoppable...... until it breaks
In the end, it's a bike, not a spaceship.
There is the e system where DJI (and Bosch in some way) are leading the way on what should a modern system look like . I don't see Spec eclipsing the Avinox (integration,power,weight,fast charge...) maybe making something similar.
Then there is the bike itself that needs to ride well with good geo and suspension (not hard to improve on gen3 suspension) and be reliable and look good.
I'm sure the gen4 will be a top performing featured packed ebike, just not sure it will be better than some of the current and future offerings from other manufacturers.
There is the e system where DJI (and Bosch in some way) are leading the way on what should a modern system look like . I don't see Spec eclipsing the Avinox (integration,power,weight,fast charge...) maybe making something similar.
Then there is the bike itself that needs to ride well with good geo and suspension (not hard to improve on gen3 suspension) and be reliable and look good.
I'm sure the gen4 will be a top performing featured packed ebike, just not sure it will be better than some of the current and future offerings from other manufacturers.
AussieRuss
New Member
All the big players are still stuck on the 36 bolt systems for full fats. This includes DJI.
Watch this space for a new full fat 48volt system that everyone will then move to in the coming years.
Again Specialized will be innovator.
DuncanDoughnuts
Active member
Tell me if I’m wrong.
But is the SL not a 48v ?
And I heard report that it looses power when the voltage gets below a certain point…. And I’m not talking about below 10% but when it gets to like 20%.
I have never ridden one so curious if this is true and if this is a problem with 48v systems ?
Every system throttles power as the batteries go flat.
Most start throttling at 20% and ramp up so it’s very noticeable at 5%.
It might be more noticeable on the SL as the battery is much smaller to start with. That said I’ve never found it bad on my SL.
You are correct, the Spesh SL is built on a 48V system.
The problem(battery sag) you are describing is not a consequence of the 48V system, but the the consequence of a smallish battery built with the tiny old 18650 cells that hold cca 40% less energy than the newer 21700 cells.
The less capacity a cell has the shorter the time it can operate at an optimal SOC, that is especially pushed to extremes in smaller battery packs where the number of cells is less and so each cell is also pushed harder than in a big pack where the load is shared by more cells. For comparison: the SL 320Wh pack has 26 cells(each 3,4Ah), a brand new 800Wh pack has 40 cells(each 5,5Ah).
Hey,
After I read rumors way back about Specialized going 48V with the new Levo I was doing some personal research on a possible battery pack size in that case, just thought it was a got time to throw out what I got back then...
I was going of the idea of Spesh as innovative and bringing evolution to the market so the majority of the post is based on the possibility of an 850Wh 4kg battery pack.
I actually came up with two possible sizes.
A 850Wh(14S3P) and 567Wh(14S2P) pack.
Note: The 48V system is a bit tricky because of the individual cell voltage, you need to choose the configuration. For the post I will lean on the 14S configuration, with some explanation of the difference.
Cells have a nominal voltage between 3,6V and 3,7V, most closer to 3,6V, for the calculations I will use the mid value of 3,65V.
You need to decide if you will have 13S3P or a 14S3P configuration pack.
If you build a pack with 13 cell series you come a bit short of 48V. 13 x 3,65V = 47,45.
If you build it with 14 cell series you cone a bit over 48V. 14 x 3,65V = 51,1V.
The later is better because with it you
can account for voltage loss because of different individual cell SOC etc., and it can be regulated to a lower voltage if necessary.
I will focus on the possibility of a 48V(51,1V) 850Wh pack in 14S3P configuration with a 21700 5,55Ah cell.
3,65V x 42 x 5,55Ah ~ 850Wh
42 Cells in a stack configuration:
7(row/length) x 3(width) x 2(height)
or
8(upper row 6) x 3(width) x 2(height)
That would mean a pack in dimensions of a length of cca 560mm to 600mm, a width of cca 68mm to 70mm and a height of cca 47mm to 49mm.
Just the cells would have a weight of cca 3kg(42 x 72g). The rest of the weight is the housing and the internals. With a light material(magnesium) and thiner structuraly reinforced housing walls it would be possible to get the weight of the housing and internals to cca 1kg. The whole 850Wh pack would then weigh cca 4kg and the 567Wh cca 2,8kg
If they would use the 14S configuration, then the system could also be marketed as a 52V system as some manufacturers in other LEV(light electric vehicle) fields are doing even though in reality the system as a whole is a 48V.
If they would go for a 13S configuration then the pack sizes would be 527Wh(2,65kg) and 790Wh(3,8kg) with maybe slightly smaller dimensions.
The deciding factor for the battery pack configuration is mostly the motor and the exact voltage it's is made to operate at, if that's closer to 48V or closer to 52V.
As written in previous posts I guess we will soon see if I hit the nail on the head in any points
After I read rumors way back about Specialized going 48V with the new Levo I was doing some personal research on a possible battery pack size in that case, just thought it was a got time to throw out what I got back then...
I was going of the idea of Spesh as innovative and bringing evolution to the market so the majority of the post is based on the possibility of an 850Wh 4kg battery pack.
I actually came up with two possible sizes.
A 850Wh(14S3P) and 567Wh(14S2P) pack.
Note: The 48V system is a bit tricky because of the individual cell voltage, you need to choose the configuration. For the post I will lean on the 14S configuration, with some explanation of the difference.
Cells have a nominal voltage between 3,6V and 3,7V, most closer to 3,6V, for the calculations I will use the mid value of 3,65V.
You need to decide if you will have 13S3P or a 14S3P configuration pack.
If you build a pack with 13 cell series you come a bit short of 48V. 13 x 3,65V = 47,45.
If you build it with 14 cell series you cone a bit over 48V. 14 x 3,65V = 51,1V.
The later is better because with it you
can account for voltage loss because of different individual cell SOC etc., and it can be regulated to a lower voltage if necessary.
I will focus on the possibility of a 48V(51,1V) 850Wh pack in 14S3P configuration with a 21700 5,55Ah cell.
3,65V x 42 x 5,55Ah ~ 850Wh
42 Cells in a stack configuration:
7(row/length) x 3(width) x 2(height)
or
8(upper row 6) x 3(width) x 2(height)
That would mean a pack in dimensions of a length of cca 560mm to 600mm, a width of cca 68mm to 70mm and a height of cca 47mm to 49mm.
Just the cells would have a weight of cca 3kg(42 x 72g). The rest of the weight is the housing and the internals. With a light material(magnesium) and thiner structuraly reinforced housing walls it would be possible to get the weight of the housing and internals to cca 1kg. The whole 850Wh pack would then weigh cca 4kg and the 567Wh cca 2,8kg
If they would use the 14S configuration, then the system could also be marketed as a 52V system as some manufacturers in other LEV(light electric vehicle) fields are doing even though in reality the system as a whole is a 48V.
If they would go for a 13S configuration then the pack sizes would be 527Wh(2,65kg) and 790Wh(3,8kg) with maybe slightly smaller dimensions.
The deciding factor for the battery pack configuration is mostly the motor and the exact voltage it's is made to operate at, if that's closer to 48V or closer to 52V.
As written in previous posts I guess we will soon see if I hit the nail on the head in any points
electricbogaloo
Member
Do you know which current Specialized batteries use the 21700 cell format? Only the 700 wh or also the 500? M2 and M3 seem to be identical apart from the rock guard.
In general all lithium ion batteries will become unstable under stress when they are drained. Its not like a gas powered engine where you can go full throttle until the last drop. To protect an ageing (batteries are always aging) battery against too much permanent damage the bms has to cut the power output when the voltage falls under a certain value under stress.
Spesh doesn't provide any info on which cells they use. But from the size and some math I would conclude that for the 700 and 500Wh they use a 21700 cell with an 4,8Ah capacity in a 10s4p configuration for the 700Wh pack and a bit smaler in capacity 4,6Ah cell in a 10s3p for the 500Wh.
Note: If they use the larger 4,8Ah cells for the 500Wh then that one is in reality a bit bigger(522Wh) than stated.
You could get some insight if dropping the 10inr22/ or the 10inr19/ tech specifications in Google, it looks like a lot of packs are made by the same company bmz group, bike manufacturers most probably r&d the housing etc...to fit their own bikes.
Yes you are correct, the discharge/charge cutoff voltages are usually somewhere at 3,0V for each cell and the upper limit somewhere at 4,1V. To By stable I meant, that the cell is able to provide stable current throughout it's optimal SOC window. This window is much wider with high amperage cells that unfortunately are not used in the ebike world due to ebike industry pursuit for range and also cost, the lower capacity/high amperage cells are not cheap.
The BMS is off course am important piece of the picture, and a good BMS is a must, because it monitors and controls every single cell for voltage, current and temperature.
An interesting point of ebike packs is safety, I always wondered why Giant packs are so bulky, did a bit of Google Search and was surprised on all of what is packed inside of a Giant pack, that I doubt some other manufacturers have, but that's a topic for a different thread.
I remember on one of the EMBN interviews with specialized they said they used 21700 cellsSpesh doesn't provide any info on which cells they use. But from the size and some math I would conclude that for the 700 and 500Wh they use a 21700 cell with an 4,8Ah capacity in a 10s4p configuration for the 700Wh pack and a bit smaler in capacity 4,6Ah cell in a 10s3p for the 500Wh.
Note: If they use the larger 4,8Ah cells for the 500Wh then that one is in reality a bit bigger(522Wh) than stated.
You could get some insight if dropping the 10inr22/ or the 10inr19/ tech specifications in Google, it looks like a lot of packs are made by the same company bmz group, bike manufacturers most probably r&d the housing etc...to fit their own bikes.
Yes you are correct, the discharge/charge cutoff voltages are usually somewhere at 3,0V for each cell and the upper limit somewhere at 4,1V. To By stable I meant, that the cell is able to provide stable current throughout it's optimal SOC window. This window is much wider with high amperage cells that unfortunately are not used in the ebike world due to ebike industry pursuit for range and also cost, the lower capacity/high amperage cells are not cheap.
The BMS is off course am important piece of the picture, and a good BMS is a must, because it monitors and controls every single cell for voltage, current and temperature.
An interesting point of ebike packs is safety, I always wondered why Giant packs are so bulky, did a bit of Google Search and was surprised on all of what is packed inside of a Giant pack, that I doubt some other manufacturers have, but that's a topic for a different thread.
electricbogaloo
Member
The weight vs safety of a battery is also an important detail. Like chugging the cells inside without any or much protection would be light but unsafe. Removable batteries probably have to withstand tests where they fall from some height without combusting. So Amflow probably was rather aggressive here in shedding weight.
Yes that's true, don't want to make a mess of the thread topic, so just leaving a link, it's an interesting look into what is going on inside a Giant battery pack. I am really interested if and how much of that is implemented in other manufacturer packs.
Delivering you the best in Power & Safety | EnergyPak Ebike Battery | Giant Bicycles Official site
Our engineers understand how important a great battery is for an E-bike. They strive to not only meet the most strict industry standards for safety and the environment, but also to give you a great riding experience for the full lifetime of your E-bike.
www.giant-bicycles.com
Black Bear Trail
Member
Thanks for the teaser. Aren't the bikes made in Taiwan? I'm in Japan. So if I flew to Taiwan, I wonder if I could get Gen 4 Levo a little early, before they are released in Europe. What do you think?
I imagine Specialized will have all stock ready to go in their continental warehouses before the official launch so it really shouldn't make much difference.
For me the wait was too long, I went from a Specialized Enduro Comp to a Santa Cruz Vala and I am completely satisfied.
This weekend I went for a 42Km ride with an elevation of 950 meters.
33Km in tour+ and 9Km in eMTB, I didn't feel the need for more power.
In the end 26% of battery was left, which means that 444Wh of the battery was consumed.
I weigh 68.5kg equipped and I'm 1.72 meters tall.
I'm in relatively good physical shape (53 years young
On this ride I went with a friend of mine (+- 1,85 meters) who has a 2022 Specialized Levo Comp and weighs 25kg more than me.
The Levo consumed 575Wh, that is, 29% more than the Vala. I believe that this difference is essentially due to the weight and physical shape of the rider.
The bike is a kit S, size M and weights 22,65Kg with pedals (405g), liquid in tubeless tires, mudguard and RideWrap 95%
I haven't done the jumps in the Enduro photo yet, but so far I haven't missed the 170mm of travel. The Vala is much quieter going down and more comfortable. When I land it feels like I'm landing on a mattress
roccobarocco
Active member
Cool Bike, congrats 
Interesting bike indeed with a Spesh controller and Bosch motor - no display at all. I don't recognize it right away, but I doubt it is really a Spesh proto. You can find pics of the complete bike from here - obviously it is the same bike: Pic of the Day
Last edited:
electricbogaloo
Member
It's a KTM. No idea what the spesh controller does there. I hope specialized gets rid of that useless turbo button.
electricbogaloo
Member
Its KTM Macina Kapoho: KTM Macina Kapoho Prestige in review – The name is the game. But is it?
It's not useless if you got the latest TCU
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