Yes; I get that.
My guess is announcement next week with bikes available in April. Honestly I think Specialized have already butchered it waiting this long.
Nah…..if it’s a decent product, it’ll still sell well.
Here some of my thoughts on the power wars etc...
️Hi, you must be new here. Welcome to the internet.
Always plenty of kit changers who believe that new kit makes them better at something. The terms "innovation" and "game changer" attached to minor upgrades always guarantees a queue of mugs. Same in all recreational sports and pastimes.
in standard tune the Bosch CX gen4 needs a relatively high cadence..ie 70+. I ride with a mate on a Levo and it is clear he achieves the same amount of assist as me at 70 at c 50. That was until I used the Flow app to tune the motor response. Now I get good power assist at really low cadence and it stays strong right up to 85.(I dont know if the Bosch gen5 is any different in that respect). I would be very reluctant to use a bike with any other motor if it could not match how my motor responds having done the tuning in the Flow App!@gbcoke I agree, even the 85/90Nm bikes are to powerful for majority of today's drivetrains, a single wrong shift can ruin your day, there is basically only 1 drivetrain specifically made for ebike the Shimano CUES lineup with the Linkglide tech parts, and it's been pretty scarce on new bikes so far. Transmission is most probably as strong but imo still not specifically made for ebikes in terms of durability/longevity.
The battery consumption is definitely going to suffer but in my opinion it won't be as noticeable because in the meanwhile most of the new generaton bikes come with energy denser 21700 or 22700 cells that are slightly more efficient overall. But yes at the end someone pushing a 100Nm bike on turbo will definitely suffer at battery consumption more then one with 85Nm(pure physics) when on the same battery size.
I guess each one of us has valid points for their own useage pattern, at the end let's be honest, having a wider choice is always better and more competition should in theory be better for all of us due to pricing, but maybe also not, strange times these days...
@Mikerb you beat me to the torque/cadence thoughts with your post
If Spesh really went triple digit on Nm, I am interested on a first lab test and how their torque/cadence curve window will look, as in one of their interviews they said they are not going full power numbers like the rest but have more focus on rideability hence the focus on the torque/cadence curve, from a technical point of view that would mean they didn't go full power figures as
the basic formula tells us:
lower the power , higher the force at lower rpm.
P(W) = F(Nm) x rpm.
Power in layman's terms is good for maintaining high speed and getting there fast, but Torque is good for pulling heavy loads in a straight or uphill consistently.
Now where(cadence window) this Torque is avaliable depends, one, on the motor power number, two, on the mechanical construction of the motor and it's tuning of the cadence curve.
So If they left the power figures a bit lower then the competition and rose the torque comparable, that would imply to a system with a wideee torque/cadence curve in layman's terms a diesel like feeling of the motor, a lot of grunt down low/strong pulling power at a low cadence and troughout the cadence range, this should also aid to a lower battery consumption.
For comparison from all the tests the Avinox motor really comes alive at high cadences, this implies to high power figures - which is as we know true, but it also showes a real life pretty high battery consumption at these figures.
Spesh had a looot of time for testing and fine tuning the motor behavior, also after watching the german test of the new Brose Drive Peak³ a while ago, where they say the feel of the motor is pretty much the same 》Brose Feeling 《 I have a hunch it's going te be a realy good powerful feeling motor capable of impressive efficiency especially also because it's a 48V system. There is only one question and only time will tell how the reliability will be, but as it's taking a while, I guess Brose had also a looot of time to do proper real life testing which is good.
As this thread is most probably coming to it's peak I will just say I am looking forward for the new option on the market.
One thing I am definitely not looking forward for the pricing as if what is being said, IMO the industry has gone nuts and hope someone is listening/reading.
Saying for myself and the people I talk to around here in the emtb community, a lot are not fond on buying a new bike if the prices go up even more, the previous bikes were crazy expensive and even now at discounted prices are a hard sell as a most people already have solid used bikes that also are a hard sell when trying so.
So if the prices go up I think the sales are gonna be really hard, that's why Spesh is probably releasing the small batch top spec to lure out those with money that want the latest and greatest no questions asked and the so called "dentists" sorry if I offended someone.
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No it isn'tHey guys this is a direct Google translate of the text from the Brose Drive³ Peak pre production motor test on the german emtb-news portal from last year...some good info I'd say...
________________
Brose:
Our idea was to develop a new engine that was long-lasting, low-maintenance and very quiet.
Tester:
From the first few meters you can notice that the Drive³ Peak has more punch than its predecessor and does its job very quietly.
According to the manufacturer, the motor delivers a maximum torque of 95 Nm with a peak output of 600 W.
On the trail, as is already the case with the Brose Drive S Mag, it pushes very confidently, powerfully, continuously and reacts sensitively and sensitive to every pedal pressure. When stationary, if you keep your foot on the pedal, there is absolutely nothing twitching, unlike other power packs over 90 Nm.
Brose has implemented Eco, Tour, OneMode (a progressive mode, similar to Bosch's eMTB mode) and Boost as support modes. But that's not all, because as a special treat, the Drive³ has been given an additional mode - which can be activated separately from any other mode level using a separate button - called "Punch" in which the motor briefly runs at maximum power and pushes and supports even at low cadence levels. This mode is fun when you get down to business, but it also requires control, because unlike the Boost mode - comparable to Turbo with Bosch or Boost with Shimano - the support in the punch is less homogeneous and feels a bit uncouth and aggressive – Just full throttle.
At the 25 speed limit, the pedal twitches under my feet and the bike can't decide whether to push or not to push. In technical borderline situations or in racing, this is hardly a problem, but if you just want to cruise along the forest path, it's a little annoying at the moment. Brose is still coordinating here and told me that the characteristics of this mode are not yet final.
The motor support was avaliable over a very wide cadence band. The motor doesn't hit any peaks or capers in any direction. Even as a prototype (B-model status), the Brose Drive³ performed its job at a very high level and on a very broad foundation - this is precisely what makes it a top all-rounder. In just a few words I would describe the Brose Drive³ Peak motor as follows: A cultivated powerhouse with a real Brose feeling and a worthy successor to the Brose Drive S Mag.
How quiet is the Brose Drive³ Peak motor? Even without a belt, the motor is quiet in operation, very quiet in fact! At low cadence you almost can't hear it, at high cadence (from around 90 revolutions per minute) it gets a little louder. However, it is actually only audible when it has to shuttle, i.e. the motor has to push with a lot of power when little of your own power is being put into the pedal. I would definitely classify it as quieter than, for example, a Bosch Performance CX Gen4, Shimano EP801 and even a Brose Drive S Mag. On the flat, the Brose Drive³ Peak motor is virtually inaudible and even when it has to shuttle, it works very quietly and is acoustically absolutely inconspicuous.
I would like to say one thing at the end: We did not drive a system ready for series production, but rather a B model, i.e. close to series production. I.e. Here the product is almost completely correct, but is not yet 100% standard. Brose told us that the motor was 100% final, but the software installed on our test bike was only about 90% final. But Brose is definitely on the home stretch and I'm pretty sure that we will see a new e-bike with the new Brose Drive³ Peak motor soon.
_________________
IMO Looks promising and in line what Spesh were getting at in their interview of torque/cadence priority over power, now they of course tweaked the software a bit their way...so some difference will surely be there but it's a good picture what could be
Regarding potential future tariffs, Specialized manufactures almost all of its bikes in Taiwan. Gen1, 2 and 3 Levo's are all made in Taiwan, I would assume the same will be true for Gen 4 Levos.
In other words emulating bosch gen 5 which is the benchmark.Hey guys this is a direct Google translate of the text from the Brose Drive³ Peak pre production motor test on the german emtb-news portal from last year...some good info I'd say...
________________
Brose:
Our idea was to develop a new engine that was long-lasting, low-maintenance and very quiet.
Tester:
From the first few meters you can notice that the Drive³ Peak has more punch than its predecessor and does its job very quietly.
According to the manufacturer, the motor delivers a maximum torque of 95 Nm with a peak output of 600 W.
On the trail, as is already the case with the Brose Drive S Mag, it pushes very confidently, powerfully, continuously and reacts sensitively and sensitive to every pedal pressure. When stationary, if you keep your foot on the pedal, there is absolutely nothing twitching, unlike other power packs over 90 Nm.
Brose has implemented Eco, Tour, OneMode (a progressive mode, similar to Bosch's eMTB mode) and Boost as support modes. But that's not all, because as a special treat, the Drive³ has been given an additional mode - which can be activated separately from any other mode level using a separate button - called "Punch" in which the motor briefly runs at maximum power and pushes and supports even at low cadence levels. This mode is fun when you get down to business, but it also requires control, because unlike the Boost mode - comparable to Turbo with Bosch or Boost with Shimano - the support in the punch is less homogeneous and feels a bit uncouth and aggressive – Just full throttle.
At the 25 speed limit, the pedal twitches under my feet and the bike can't decide whether to push or not to push. In technical borderline situations or in racing, this is hardly a problem, but if you just want to cruise along the forest path, it's a little annoying at the moment. Brose is still coordinating here and told me that the characteristics of this mode are not yet final.
The motor support was avaliable over a very wide cadence band. The motor doesn't hit any peaks or capers in any direction. Even as a prototype (B-model status), the Brose Drive³ performed its job at a very high level and on a very broad foundation - this is precisely what makes it a top all-rounder. In just a few words I would describe the Brose Drive³ Peak motor as follows: A cultivated powerhouse with a real Brose feeling and a worthy successor to the Brose Drive S Mag.
How quiet is the Brose Drive³ Peak motor? Even without a belt, the motor is quiet in operation, very quiet in fact! At low cadence you almost can't hear it, at high cadence (from around 90 revolutions per minute) it gets a little louder. However, it is actually only audible when it has to shuttle, i.e. the motor has to push with a lot of power when little of your own power is being put into the pedal. I would definitely classify it as quieter than, for example, a Bosch Performance CX Gen4, Shimano EP801 and even a Brose Drive S Mag. On the flat, the Brose Drive³ Peak motor is virtually inaudible and even when it has to shuttle, it works very quietly and is acoustically absolutely inconspicuous.
I would like to say one thing at the end: We did not drive a system ready for series production, but rather a B model, i.e. close to series production. I.e. Here the product is almost completely correct, but is not yet 100% standard. Brose told us that the motor was 100% final, but the software installed on our test bike was only about 90% final. But Brose is definitely on the home stretch and I'm pretty sure that we will see a new e-bike with the new Brose Drive³ Peak motor soon.
_________________
IMO Looks promising and in line what Spesh were getting at in their interview of torque/cadence priority over power, now they of course tweaked the software a bit their way...so some difference will surely be there but it's a good picture what could be
What do you mean?No it isn't
November 25 now.
Agreed. Waste of time. He has basically just read this thread
From that it sounds like they have built a ebike same as most brands nowadays but let’s see .
