Kenevo/Levo Efficient Assistant settings ?

[Zimmerframe]

I think this has possibly been done to death, but maybe I'm missing something..

Kenevo Expert - 1.3 - firmware all uptodate. Previous bike for comparison E8000 hardtail. Both 500wh batteries. Kenevo 90nm. E8000 70nm.

OK, so yes, the Kenevo covers all ground faster, it's amazing. Whilst it's a chunky Monkey, it's less than 2kg's more than the HT Shimano.

The tyres are standard butchers compared to Minion DHF/DHRII on the HT - which are draggy and noisy at speed (but very effective).

Pressures are significantly higher on the Kenevo as I've not got round to tubeless yet.

Riding the same routes:

On the E8000 - 1500km's was 27 charge cycles. Average 55km's a charge cycle.

The Kenevo - 169km's is 7 charge cycles. Average 24km's a charge cycle !!! (15 miles.)

They both have three main assistance settings, but you can't really compare them. By default the Eco on the brose was similar to mid level trail assistance on the E8000. On the E8000 I mainly rode in trail as it's intuitive and varies the assistance as required - stretching out battery life and just used eco if I knew I was going on a long ride or on the way back if the battery was getting low, Boost on steep or fast climbs. The Kenevo mainly lives in Eco with spurts of Trail and a few seconds of Boost as required on general rides, with more boost abuse similar to the E8000 on steep or fast climbs.

My Kenevo range is slowly increasing as I reduce the assistance settings. I've installed Blevo so I can monitor the range and power used in each mode more easily to see where all my power pixies are going .

Presently my settings are Eco 15/25, Trail 30/50 and Boost is in it's default battery emptying setting of 100/100 .. Just because .. well, that's what it's there for !

In theory, the lower you set the assist and the lower you set the maximum power, the higher the range.. However, I'm wondering if there are exceptions.

Today's test with eco 15/25 had a 98.9 battery efficiency and used 8.28wh/km

The previous, similar, battery test circuit I had eco at 20/35 had 96.3 battery efficiency (lower average cadence) , but used only 7.9wh/km

My question is , are there some settings which, for some reason, actually work more efficiently ? I did wonder if I only had a 250wh battery or something, but Blevo seems to think it's 500wh - so it's not that .. but it's a bit disconcerting when you're riding along in eco sweating you bollox off and you watch the battery lose 1% every 300 meters ..

 

[khorn]

I don’t know if it is 100% comparable but I have same motor/battery as you but a lighter bike. On the other hand I’m 110 kg fully kitted. My terrain is relatively flat with typically 250-350 meters of climbing in 25 km. My settings are very close to yours and I mostly ride in Trail and gets significantly more range than you, around 45-50 km for a full charge. Riding in ECO only will get me way past 60 km. Even you do a lot more assent something is not right here with only a tad more than 20 km. It could be that your battery have a group of bad cells giving you less capacity. Do you know someone with a older Levo or Kenevo where you could try and borrow another battery to see if it changes anything?

Karsten

 

[CjP]

How fat are you??

I just been riding the last three days at a park with 120m elevation and around 1.5km average tracks. I get around 30km on trail mode with turbo towards the end and came back to the car with 2 or 3 bars left.

On flat trails I can get 70km with 25% left over.

 

[CjP]

Should get about 40 to 50km on hills and double that on flat trails. That’s what my mission control shows on my rides

 

[Zimmerframe]

Thanks for the replies...

I thought we'd established that all that lard acts as energy downhill overriding air and ground drag !!!

397kg's .. naked .. with some bits resting on the floor. That's normal isn't it ?

As I'm not packing Karsten's Muscle, I wimp in at about 70kg's. Plus maybe another 150kg's of armour - I need to be safe. OK .. so maybe a couple of kg's in armour.

I tried eco yesterday with Mission control running and giving me range/battery state with the aim of getting 40km's, but aborted after 30km's even with the bike off on some flats and easier climbs to stretch things out.

Sadly I'm the only Kenevo/Levo I know of .. bah. Battery health shows as 100%, but how it works that out I have no idea ! OK .. I shall now go for a ride in trail only and see what the results are.

 

[khorn]

Battery health indicator is utterly useless, I’m 45 charge cycles and it is still indicating 100% so that doesn’t work. With previous firmware a lot of owners had battery health indications below 100% out of the box including myself (95% new) and then Specialized issued a new version and all of us have been 100% since.....

Karsten

 

[Zimmerframe]

OK, so comparing my previous range on a different type of motor, taking into account both of your replies .. it looks like maybe it could be a battery issue rather than just settings ..

Just swapped out to smaller cranks for slightly higher cadence to see if this helps and will try trail only and see what I get ..

Another thought.. The shimano battery used to take about 4 or 5 hours to charge, I never sat there and watched it excitedly, so I can't say exactly.

The Kenevo battery takes between an hour if I've only been for a short ride and 2 hours max if it's down to red lights. (10-20%) .. I did put this down to it being a different charger/battery type, but it does seem surprisingly quick.

 

[CjP]

No way that’s right. Mine takes around 4 hours to charge.
I’d say it’s the battery mate.

 

[CjP]

On a side note I took my bike in a couple months ago for lookover at Specialized HQ and they didn’t want to upgrade the latest firmware as apparently people were having battery issues.

 

[khorn]

No way that’s right. Mine takes around 4 hours to charge.
I’d say it’s the battery mate.

My battery also takes about 4 hours from empty, I think that you have a battery issue.

Karsten

 

[miPbiP]

I think altitude gain is a better indication than range.

I weigh about 80kg dressed to ride and can get about 1000m gain from my battery 500Wh if I work hard and go full gas turbo.

If I run at eco on 10%, which is still faster or easier than a clockwork bike, I think I could get over 3000m. But I don't know for sure because my legs won't last that long.

 

[Swissrob]

It does sound like that your range is low are you sure you have 504w battery not 460w which some Kenevos have? I increased my eco and trail modes from standard to make them more useful and help keep cadence up also dropped boost to save battery.

 

[khorn]

There is even a 400 wh battery out there from the 2019 Levo HT, capacity is written on the back side of the battery.

Karsten

 

[Zimmerframe]

Ok .. swapped cranks to 140's and back from "Denmark Test Ride" ..

Cranks felt really really really stupidly short at first and I thought I'd made a mistake, after 2km's they felt fine ..

Did trail only and went for it. Only did roads/farm tracks/tow paths.

Firstly .. wow that was nice, It was like being back on an e-bike again rather than the last few days which have felt like an alcohol free bike.

It's supposed to be a 500wh, and Blevo seems to think it is, but how Blevo gets that information I don't know ..

BUT ! I'm now totally confused ..

20.67k , 310m. I was gunning it as fast as possible down hill and as fast as possible up hill (no turbo) and trying to ride above the assistance as much as possible as that's how I'd ride the E8000 if I went for a "tour". Tried to keep cadence as close to 80 as possible as the Brose and the E8000 both feel "smooth" at that rate.

Battery Consumed 32% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?!?!?? Average 10.7 wh/km

20.6 km Mountain Bike Ride on September 8, 2019 by Zimmer F. on Strava

Based on that, it's way more efficient to ride in trail than eco - if you take into account how much easier it is !!! Wish I'd run Blevo on the 33k /650m (85% battery used) Eco mode test now.

@miPbiP is correct that altitude will make a huge difference too.

 

[khorn]

Ok .. swapped cranks to 140's and back from "Denmark Test Ride" ..

Cranks felt really really really stupidly short at first and I thought I'd made a mistake, after 2km's they felt fine ..

Did trail only and went for it. Only did roads/farm tracks/tow paths.

Firstly .. wow that was nice, It was like being back on an e-bike again rather than the last few days which have felt like an alcohol free bike.

It's supposed to be a 500wh, and Blevo seems to think it is, but how Blevo gets that information I don't know ..

BUT ! I'm now totally confused ..

20.67k , 310m. I was gunning it as fast as possible down hill and as fast as possible up hill (no turbo) and trying to ride above the assistance as much as possible as that's how I'd ride the E8000 if I went for a "tour". Tried to keep cadence as close to 80 as possible as the Brose and the E8000 both feel "smooth" at that rate.

Battery Consumed 32% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?!?!?? Average 10.7 wh/km

20.6 km Mountain Bike Ride on September 8, 2019 by Zimmer F. on Strava

Based on that, it's way more efficient to ride in trail than eco - if you take into account how much easier it is !!! Wish I'd run Blevo on the 33k /650m (85% battery used) Eco mode test now.

@miPbiP is correct that altitude will make a huge difference too.

Trail it will be then

Karsten

 

[Zimmerframe]

You're talking sense !!

Present settings are : Eco 15/25, Trail 30/50

Does anything else happen with ECO and TRAIL , other than them being "names" for two configurations. So if I change ECO to 30/50 - will it be exactly the same as Trail on 30/50 or does something else go on behind the scenes ??

By Default, they were all xx/100

 

[khorn]

F

You're talking sense !!

Present settings are : Eco 15/25, Trail 30/50

Does anything else happen with ECO and TRAIL , other than them being "names" for two configurations. So if I change ECO to 30/50 - will it be exactly the same as Trail on 30/50 or does something else go on behind the scenes ??

By Default, they were all xx/100

From my knowledge the answer is no, it is simply 3 settings and nothing behind them like smart algorithms or anything.

Karsten

 

[Mcharza]

I think there's something wrong with your battery. It usually takes 3.5-4 hours to fully charge the battery.

I have Eco 20/40, trail 40/60 turbo 80/100 and get easily over 60 km. Mostly always ride with Eco

 

[Topov]

Just charged my battery from 20% took 3 1/2 hours to fully charge, did full on speed run today 20 miles/ 32km and 1500ft /500m climb average speed 11mph/18kph average consumption 22 wh/mile settings 20/40 40/80 87/100. This ride was full on so I would believe something seems to be wrong with yours

 

[Mikerb]

I think you already saw my post where I said I had increased ECO to 25/50 and found as a result I was using trail mode ( 50/100) far less. My feeling ( unscientific!) is that you get the best response from the motor, induce far less stress on the motor and drivetrain, and get the best bang for buck from the battery, by riding with sufficient assistance and a high enough cadence to avoid putting a lot of rider torque through the cranks. For me if I cannot hear the motor, it is obviously not working hard and with ECO set at that level the motor is near silent the vast majority of time. I have far fewer occasions when I need to move up to trail mode just fully using the gears to keep the motor silent.
I work on the basis that the motor is capable of 400% assistance ( I know it is a little more but 400% is easier on the maths!). Keeping in mind that 400% is available is all modes unless the max is reduced, it makes sense to me to have each mode evenly spread across that assistance level. So ECO at 25/50 duplicates my input, Trail at 50/100 doubles my input, and Turbo at 100/100 is the fully monty. The max levels, specifically between ECO and Trail just help to confirm ( by feel) when it is best to step up one mode. For me, setting the max on ECO too low just creates too big a gap between the ECO and Trail and therefore encourages going into Trail when maybe it is only a few metres of extra power required, and where a lower gear would do the job just as well.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Thanks all .. I think even from today's results .. I agree - the battery seems a bit suspect and also, setting the setting too low, probably has the effect of not using the motor efficiently and the bike efficiently . So less an issue with with settings are more efficient - but some probably are - but more an issue with a suspect battery .. the 7 cycles in less than 170km's seems to confirm that when doing the same riding as the E8000 with 2 or 3 times the distance on a charge.

I'll take it out tomorrow and ride till flat and then time the recharge.

 

[CjP]

For what it’s worth my battery died after a week of owning it. Maybe you have to bed them in and not just flat out of the gate like I did.

 

[wepn]

Yes it sounds like a fried cell. You mentioned Blevo displayed 32% consumed after 20.67 km & 310m no turbo...I can’t think of anything else that could explain those figures despite the fact you weigh 397 kg & ride naked

 

[Zimmerframe]

397 kg & ride naked

398 ... I binged after my ride ... Naked - Lycra with less colour choice.

I thought yesterdays afternoons stats weren't too bad - compared to previous results, but then the trail settings at 30/50 are less than the default ECO settings - so maybe not so good .. Still, it felt nice after 2 days on 15/25 ..

Storm heading in here, so will go try and flatten it and re-charge it before that arrives. It would be ironic to damage the battery whilst charging in a thunderstorm whilst trying to prove that the battery is damaged ..

 

[Zimmerframe]

Ok .. that was harder than you'd imagine as it was friends 51st wedding anniversary last night .. and well ... I didn't want to be rude and not drink ...

For me, the results totally contradict the results from my first few rides (169k - 7 charge cycles & just over 30k on eco 15/25 a couple of days ago as a range test).

TURBO the whole way .. I thought great - this is going to be 15km's .. no probs ..

Nope .. 30km's 1000m climbed. At 1% assistance stopped - 15 metres from the house.

Interestingly, at about 5% , it limited motor power to a max of 164w as a sort of "limp home" I guess..

29.7 km Mountain Bike Ride on September 9, 2019 by Zimmer F. on Strava

So has it fixed itself ? Is it more efficient in Turbo ? Am I incapable of reading numbers....

 

[wepn]

Ok .. that was harder than you'd imagine as it was friends 51st wedding anniversary last night .. and well ... I didn't want to be rude and not drink ...

For me, the results totally contradict the results from my first few rides (169k - 7 charge cycles & just over 30k on eco 15/25 a couple of days ago as a range test).

TURBO the whole way .. I thought great - this is going to be 15km's .. no probs ..

Nope .. 30km's 1000m climbed. At 1% assistance stopped - 15 metres from the house.

Interestingly, at about 5% , it limited motor power to a max of 164w as a sort of "limp home" I guess..

29.7 km Mountain Bike Ride on September 9, 2019 by Zimmer F. on Strava

So has it fixed itself ? Is it more efficient in Turbo ? Am I incapable of reading numbers....

Sounds kind of better though if it still takes only 2 hours to charge then obviously not. Can you check BLEvo during the charge? Is your nearest Spesh shop far away?

 

[miPbiP]

Ok .. that was harder than you'd imagine as it was friends 51st wedding anniversary last night .. and well ... I didn't want to be rude and not drink ...

For me, the results totally contradict the results from my first few rides (169k - 7 charge cycles & just over 30k on eco 15/25 a couple of days ago as a range test).

TURBO the whole way .. I thought great - this is going to be 15km's .. no probs ..

Nope .. 30km's 1000m climbed. At 1% assistance stopped - 15 metres from the house.

Interestingly, at about 5% , it limited motor power to a max of 164w as a sort of "limp home" I guess..

29.7 km Mountain Bike Ride on September 9, 2019 by Zimmer F. on Strava

So has it fixed itself ? Is it more efficient in Turbo ? Am I incapable of reading numbers....

sounds right to me - on turbo I get 2.small-something metres of altitude for 1Wh, so 1000m from my 500Wh battery. Last night I got 639m height 23.75km distance from 315Wh. All climbs full gas with me pedalling hard quite a lot to keep the speed at max. (I wouldnt "normally" ride like that but I ony had 90 minutes to no need to think about battery efficiency. I was on a burner).

Usually I don't really think about range, only height gain.

I'm running a Minion DHF 2.5 on the front and the stock Butcher on the rear. Tyres do make a difference I think.

yes it has a limp home mode.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Sounds kind of better though if it still takes only 2 hours to charge then obviously not. Can you check BLEvo during the charge? Is your nearest Spesh shop far away?

Its on charge now and timing it. The results from today are completely contrary to every other ride I've had on the bike and the charge stats, so I'm at a complete loss at the moment.

Will be passing 2 spesh shops tomorrow. Can they do a battery analysis ? Need to buy a Spesh water bottle so could do with popping in anyway.

sounds right to me - on turbo I get 2.small-something metres of altitude for 1Wh, so 1000m from my 500Wh battery. Last night I got 639m height 23.75km distance from 315Wh. All climbs full gas with me pedalling hard too.

Usually I don't really think about range, only height gain.

yes it has a limp home mode.

Yup, I agree, the stats fit with what I'd actually expect out of it. I was quite surprised after the first section when it said I'd only used 10% battery, normally it would be down 20 or 30 % ..

I've still now idea how I can ride one day in eco and only for 30k and 600m climbing and yet ride today and do 30k 1000m and be in Turbo. OK, so losing 320 kilo's over the weekend probably helped, but other than that I can only think there's a suspect electrical connection or I'm losing the plot ! The power can't just have vanished ..

Your results you've previously shared when running on low eco settings are what you'd expect and vastly contradict my results :-(

 

[CjP]

Ok .. Am I incapable of reading numbers....

I like this option. ?

Lock it in Eddie!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Can you check BLEvo during the charge?

Tried and YES ! Blevo will connect whilst charging ! 1:45 - 55% 2:10 - 70%

So already it's taking longer to charge than normal. Maybe Spesh have secretly connected to it over satellite wifi and opened up the battery to it's full capacity ..

Only physical changes I've made over the weekend are the 140 cranks (one of which is lose due to shoddy workmanship - mine). Also took the top motor cover off to re-align the speed sensor wire and the brake cable which crossed over as they exited the cover.

Looks like I can up my assistance settings again back into "Lazy" and I don't need to worry about ECO on 15/25 or 16/24 or some other magical combination so I can ride over 30km's

I like this option.

"1" Three "12" Eight "504" Two hundred and fifty three ... All seems good to me ..