Jumping the rise

[Bob Orbea Rise]

I’m having trouble getting this jump straight. Just me?
It’s 22 model h30 with upgraded fox factory suspension front and back and dt swiss wheels.
It’s like the back end unloads and the bike always seems to move to the right at the back … the harder you pull the worse it seems to get.

 

[Plummet]

Mostly It's you. Likely you are jumping too stiff and or you are pulling too hard on take off.

There is a slight chance that your suspension rebound is too fast. But that is unlikely the cause.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Mostly It's you. Likely you are jumping too stiff and or you are pulling too hard on take off.

There is a slight chance that your suspension rebound is too fast. But that is unlikely the cause.

I have a canyon strive and it’s not an issue. I do see what you mean jumping that as if trying to hard it can easily go squiffy but that can be either way
The rise always seems to have to correct it back from the right mid air. It’s not inspiring confidence. It’s an xl I’m 6’2 and 19 stone. I’m wondering it’s the back triangle flexing
I’m pushing the system weight limit it must be said

 

[Plummet]

I have a canyon strive and it’s not an issue. I do see what you mean jumping that as if trying to hard it can easily go squiffy but that can be either way
The rise always seems to have to correct it back from the right mid air. It’s not inspiring confidence. It’s an xl I’m 6’2 and 19 stone. I’m wondering it’s the back triangle flexing
I’m pushing the system weight limit it must be said

Ahhhh.... ok, that's a different fish then. The Orbea Rise is a light weight bike with light wheels forks on it. Its too light for you particularly for jumping. She'll be flexing on g-out of the take off face and pinging you off line, Yourl also find it more difficult on burms and chunk too. Its just too light. At 19st you need a solid enduro spec bike with zebs or fox 38's or similar.

Sell it and buy a stronger E bike of similar spec to your strive and you will solve the problem. In the Orbea line up look at a wild. That will suit your purpose better.

It all honesty i'm getting a bit of old man rage at whoever sold you a Rise to begin with. Its absolutely the wrong bike for a big bloke.... particularly one that's send jumps.

Side note. I'm 12 stone and my daughter has a Orbea Rise which i have ridden and jumped before. It doesnt ping for me jumping at 12st, but i do feel the flex in burms and chunk.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Ahhhh.... ok, that's a different fish then. The Orbea Rise is a light weight bike with light wheels forks on it. Its too light for you particularly for jumping. She'll be flexing on g-out of the take off face and pinging you off line, Yourl also find it more difficult on burms and chunk too. Its just too light. At 19st you need a solid enduro spec bike with zebs or fox 38's or similar.

Sell it and buy a stronger E bike of similar spec to your strive and you will solve the problem. In the Orbea line up look at a wild. That will suit your purpose better.

It all honesty i'm getting a bit of old man rage at whoever sold you a Rise to begin with. Its absolutely the wrong bike for a big bloke.... particularly one that's send jumps.

Side note. I'm 12 stone and my daughter has a Orbea Rise which i have ridden and jumped before. It doesnt ping for me jumping at 12st, but i do feel the flex in burms and chunk.

Jumps aren’t that big as I can’t get beyond this issue. The rise system weight might be the issue but…. The reason for looking at the rise in the first place was that it was a lightweight ebike that DID fit my weight. Most other bikes quote a total bike and rider where orbea quote a rider weight alone which I’m within, or was. I forget the figures
The 25 bike has vastly upgraded rear stays

Thinking further just wheelys it feels odd, I can keep it within a certain limit to the sides but quite often you just can’t get it back and have to put it down or fall sideways

 

[Plummet]

Jumps aren’t that big as I can’t get beyond this issue. The rise system weight might be the issue but…. The reason for looking at the rise in the first place was that it was a lightweight ebike that DID fit my weight. Most other bikes quote a total bike and rider where orbea quote a rider weight alone which I’m within, or was. I forget the figures
The 25 bike has vastly upgraded rear stays

Thinking further just wheelys it feels odd, I can keep it within a certain limit to the sides but quite often you just can’t get it back and have to put it down or fall sideways

My daughter has a 22 rise. It's too weak and light for me.... hard think what sort of a noodle it would be under your weight.

My call is still the same. Selling and go full enduro build to get stiffness the stiffness you need.

Mid power e makes little sense for a heavy bloke too. Yourl burn the battery too soon. Just go full power full battery and turn the power settings town to get to the assistance you want.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

My daughter has a 22 rise. It's too weak and light for me.... hard think what sort of a noodle it would be under your weight.

My call is still the same. Selling and go full enduro build to get stiffness the stiffness you need.

Mid power e makes little sense for a heavy bloke too. Yourl burn the battery too soon. Just go full power full battery and turn the power settings town to get to the assistance you want.

I don’t agree on the light e bike principle that they are all weak purely due to the light weight. That’s due to the low battery weight and in turn dictating lower power, both of which I want. I want to work harder on the bike and have less weight to throw about. It keeps up with full power bikes if you work and they can’t throw full power about so well generally speaking. The rise is the right choice I just need to get past this problem which means identifying exactly what the cause is in the frame. Assuming all the bolts are tight and bearings good, which they are, that leaves frame wheels and tyres

 

[irie]

I’m pushing the system weight limit it must be said

Exactly what is the "system weight limit"?

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Exactly what is the "system weight limit"?

They quote a rider and kit weight limit of 130kg or 20.4 stone
So with kit I’m probably 19.5 stone plus water in a camel pack

 

[irie]

They quote a rider and kit weight limit of 130kg or 20.4 stone
So with kit I’m probably 19.5 stone plus water in a camel pack

Not surprising if frame etc. flexes given that you're pretty near the weight limit.

 

[Plummet]

I don’t agree on the light e bike principle that they are all weak purely due to the light weight. That’s due to the low battery weight and in turn dictating lower power, both of which I want. I want to work harder on the bike and have less weight to throw about. It keeps up with full power bikes if you work and they can’t throw full power about so well generally speaking. The rise is the right choice I just need to get past this problem which means identifying exactly what the cause is in the frame. Assuming all the bolts are tight and bearings good, which they are, that leaves frame wheels and tyres

I'm not stating all light weight mid power E bikes are not suitable. Quite clearly there are light weight mid power enduro ebikes that are acceptable. The Rise is not one of them. It is a light weight build is skinny weak flexible chainstays, noodle wheels and forks. Its not the right bike for you. perhaps the 2024/5 rise LT is stronger. The fy22 model you have is a noodle. It will never work for you due to frame flex, particularly in the rear end.

Now if you were to look at a Trek slash plus enduro e bike which is designed more stress, you would have a stronger platform on which to build a bike that's suitible to you.

But if you want to stick with the Rise then look at replacing the wheels with stiffer wheels and replace the fork with 38m stanchion fork and that will reduce some of the noodle effect. Then it will just be noodle rear end you have to contend with and adapt your riding style to.

 

[Weeksy]

I'm not stating all light weight mid power E bikes are not suitable. Quite clearly there are light weight mid power enduro ebikes that are acceptable. The Rise is not one of them. It is a light weight build is skinny weak flexible chainstays, noodle wheels and forks. Its not the right bike for you. perhaps the 2024/5 rise LT is stronger. The fy22 model you have is a noodle. It will never work for you due to frame flex, particularly in the rear end.

Now if you were to look at a Trek slash plus enduro e bike which is designed more stress, you would have a stronger platform on which to build a bike that's suitible to you.

But if you want to stick with the Rise then look at replacing the wheels with stiffer wheels and replace the fork with 38m stanchion fork and that will reduce some of the noodle effect. Then it will just be noodle rear end you have to contend with and adapt your riding style to.

I couldn't disagree more with your interpretation of a Rise.

 

[Plummet]

I couldn't disagree more with your interpretation of a Rise.

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for a 19 stone guy who jumping and getting pinged while jumping when his enduro mtb doesn't ping him when he jumps.

There's multiple threads of guys trying to enduro the rise then wondering why it flexes.... the reason. It's a light 140m trail bike. I wouldn't recommend any 140mm light trail bike to a 19 stone guy that jumps. .....

 

[Weeksy]

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for a 19 stone guy who jumping and getting pinged while jumping when his enduro mtb doesn't ping him when he jumps.

There's multiple threads of guys trying to enduro the rise then wondering why it flexes.... the reason. It's a light 140m trail bike. I wouldn't recommend any 140mm light trail bike to a 19 stone guy that jumps. .....

A 19stone guy is never going to find some bikes appropriate, that doesn't mean the Rise can't enduro and can't jump well. It can do both brilliantly, but maybe not when you're a big old unit (i'm not slim by the way).
The way you comment basically makes out like the Rise is a noodly piece of crap and it's really not.
I've seen the ride doing all the big jumps at Dyfi bike park for example without any issue. Admittedly the rider was 60kg not 100kg+ which is clearly different.
I know you're going to say "Just because the bike has done it doesn't mean it's the right bike for it" but again, we're going to disagree.
On here and on MTBR you're very strong in your opinions and impossible to change your mind it seems, so i'm not going to even try and change it... but in my experience, the Rise can jump perfectly well and perfectly straight.

 

[irie]

...
The way you comment basically makes out like the Rise is a noodly piece of crap and it's really not.
...

@Plummet is not saying that "the Rise is a noodly piece of crap" because it's clearly not when the rider is your weight - as you say elsewhere about your new PURPLE Orbea Rise

What @Plummet is saying is that when the rider is over 120kg, which is very near the Orbea Rise weight limit, when jumped it will on landing inevitably flex a lot ie. become "noodly", which is better than breaking of course.

 

[Doomanic]

he harder you pull the worse it seems to get.

 

[Plummet]

A 19stone guy is never going to find some bikes appropriate, that doesn't mean the Rise can't enduro and can't jump well. It can do both brilliantly, but maybe not when you're a big old unit (i'm not slim by the way).
The way you comment basically makes out like the Rise is a noodly piece of crap and it's really not.
I've seen the ride doing all the big jumps at Dyfi bike park for example without any issue. Admittedly the rider was 60kg not 100kg+ which is clearly different.
I know you're going to say "Just because the bike has done it doesn't mean it's the right bike for it" but again, we're going to disagree.
On here and on MTBR you're very strong in your opinions and impossible to change your mind it seems, so i'm not going to even try and change it... but in my experience, the Rise can jump perfectly well and perfectly straight.

Well I'm talking in context of a 19 stone 120kg guy. Of course the rise can Jump just fine for a 80kg bloke. But op is 1.5 80kg blokes.... two 60kg blokes.

It will be a noodle for him. A stiffer enduro frame is what he needs.

The rise is excellent at its intended design brief, which is a light weight trail bike.

 

[RustyMTB]

Might be a decent moment to point out grown men arguing over a push bike is an odd look.

 

[Weeksy]

Well I'm talking in context of a 19 stone 120kg guy. Of course the rise can Jump just fine for a 80kg bloke. But op is 1.5 80kg blokes.... two 60kg blokes.

It will be a noodle for him. A stiffer enduro frame is what he needs.

The rise is excellent at its intended design brief, which is a light weight trail bike.

Fair call, maybe i interpreted your comments incorrectly.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Might be a decent moment to point out grown men arguing over a push bike is an odd look.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

I could accept a sensible reply like fit the rear stays off a 24/5 bike

But having already said I’ve changed the suspension and wheels to then bang on about changing suspension and wheels is frankly moronic key board warrior syndrome. Total bell

 

[Weeksy]

I could accept a sensible reply like fit the rear stats off a 24/5 bike

But having already said I’ve changed the suspension and wheels to then bang on about changing suspension and wheels is frankly moronic key board warrior syndrome. Total bell

TBH the newer linkage isn't a heck of a lot better than the first gen. The 2nd gen with the 2 piece linkage is a better design, but as you may have seen they've now completely revised it with a whole different setup rather than just the linkage. I run the gen2 2-piece linkage on mine and it deffo creaks less (well not at all currently and last 3 months) but i don't think it's any stiffer as such.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

TBH the newer linkage isn't a heck of a lot better than the first gen. The 2nd gen with the 2 piece linkage is a better design, but as you may have seen they've now completely revised it with a whole different setup rather than just the linkage. I run the gen2 2-piece linkage on mine and it deffo creaks less (well not at all currently and last 3 months) but i don't think it's any stiffer as such.

The intention is to go with a cascade linkage arms and get the pre load spacer. But that would still leave the seat stays and chain stays. The only oe rear end bits left

Check the rear triangle after ever ride.

The give an idea , bike park wales, puppty ping, start pushing to clear those table tops and it does get squiffy. Or maybe it’s me over jumping trying to bunny hop and jump just adding to the issue

I’ll try some bunny hop practice in the flat see how that squiffs about

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Or maybe it’s me over jumping trying to bunny hop and jump just adding to the issue

This was what I was going to suggest when I read the first post.

And then suddenly, without warning by post number 3 it's being suggested that you sell it and but another bike

You don't need to pull the bike into the air. If you're twisting in the air, it's because you weren't balanced on the bike before you left the ground.

By the time you hit the lip, the bike should want to leave the ground, you're just guiding it and hopefully hanging on until it lands. You shouldn't have to make the bike jump.

I'd look at your suspension settings first of all. Air pressure, rebound and LsC damping will all be in play when you try to leave the ground. The fork and the shock both need to be set correctly and need to be balanced to one another.

If you've got a fast rebounding shock and slow fork or visa versa, you'll be all over the place when you jump. Same if the fork is too soft and the shock too hard for example.

I'd hazard a guess that maybe the fork rebound is too slow and that's why you feel you're having to pull up into the jump.

I know you say your enduro bike jumps fine, what fork and shock does that have? Guessing more travel?

 

[Plummet]

This was what I was going to suggest when I read the first post.

And then suddenly, without warning by post number 3 it's being suggested that you sell it and but another bike

You don't need to pull the bike into the air. If you're twisting in the air, it's because you weren't balanced on the bike before you left the ground.

By the time you hit the lip, the bike should want to leave the ground, you're just guiding it and hopefully hanging on until it lands. You shouldn't have to make the bike jump.

I'd look at your suspension settings first of all. Air pressure, rebound and LsC damping will all be in play when you try to leave the ground. The fork and the shock both need to be set correctly and need to be balanced to one another.

If you've got a fast rebounding shock and slow fork or visa versa, you'll be all over the place when you jump. Same if the fork is too soft and the shock too hard for example.

I'd hazard a guess that maybe the fork rebound is too slow and that's why you feel you're having to pull up into the jump.

I know you say your enduro bike jumps fine, what fork and shock does that have? Guessing more travel?

Well I could be wrong. It could be all in his suspension set up. But i doubt it.

Slow rebound wont kick you to the side. Fast rebound has the tendency to throw you over the bars to ping you left or right. Besides op states he has replaced suspension. So if it was suspension set up he would have noticed a difference during the replacement of those parts

We can ask the question. What causes a rider to ping or fade left and ride while jumping?
Operator error, Being dead sailor stiff or pulling too hard.
Op can jump fine on his other bike so its likely not this.

Flex is the next thing to look at.
Tires, Wheels, forks, frame.

Op states he's replaced wheels and forks.

That leaves frame and tires. He jumps fine on his other bike which suggests he knows how to pump a tire up. It also suggest that the other bike, which is an enduro bike is stiff enough.

That leaves frame flex. After riding the rise for several months, jumping it and enduro riding it I can state that the rise has too much rear end flex for my liking and i'm 76 kg. Looking at the frame from an engineering perspective the rear end is just too small and light particularly the main pivot bearings. A bike for an aggressive rider and or really heavy bloke should have suspension pivot bearings at least double this size.

I'm not being nasty. Or an arsehole. The fact of the batter OP has a bike that is too light for his riding style and weight.
Sure he can replace wheels, tires forks and even throw on a cascade link to try and stiffen the frame up a bit and maybe that will get it stiff enough to be ridable for him if he is riding sedately and hitting small jumps without big g outs. But, those little bearings and skinny suspension arms will remain and he the rear end will flex and make the bike do undesirable things.

Ultimately he would be better off with a stiffer/stronger frame.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Changing the suspension doesn't mean it's set up correctly.

Rolling to the side in the air is generally because your not square on the bike when you leave the ground. A dropped elbow to either side is enough to get the rotation started.

He's said he wonders if he's pulling up to hard to get the bike airborne. That's a suspension issue. If the fork is set up to be sticky with a slow rebound, you don't get enough pop and have to pull. If you pull unevenly, your elbows aren't level and you'll roll in the air. You over emphasise the body movements and things go wrong.

If you're not expecting things to go sideways, the 'dead sailor' that you mention kicks in and you land off balance, rigid as a board and have a terrible time.

I still say suspension settings. Not a bike issue.

 

[irie]

...
Ultimately he would be better off with a stiffer/stronger frame.

Or far cheaper (not being nasty, just realistic) reduce weight from 120kg to below 100kg.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Plummet. Will you please just fuck off! You made your point umpteen times, I’m not interested in your opinion …. I would like to hear from other people. If you want to start a thread of your own please do, leave mine alone.

 

[Doomanic]

Just because you don’t like what he’s saying doesn’t mean he is wrong. If all you are looking for is answers that back up your theory as to why this is happening you may never find a solution.

 

[Tony4wd]

Have you checked the chainstay weep holes for cracks, as per this thread: Rise Hydro cracks