Joining the club with a custom 9.8

[GrandesRoues]

Hello,
I'm a long time mountain biker living in the Alps (not native English speaker).
With family, job, house, and aging, i don't have enough time and fitness to be able to do the 2000m climbing rides i used to do.
My plan is to get an eBike to try to do it again...

I just bought a (lightly used) 2021 Trek Rail 9.8, in XL, with some custom parts (i'm sure you guys will find out from the pic, won't you ?). Next to it is my good old Remedy 29.

The bike came with the dropper post removed, and i had some troubles pulling the cable from the frame, and tried to unscrew the bottom battery holder. This was not a good idea... I managed to install the dropper, but now i think the position of the battery is too low. I will have to follow the procedure to align it again, but i need a special T25 "secure" key.

 

[GrandesRoues]

So i did a 38km and 1378m of climbing ride this morning.
All in "tour". Battery was fully dead at the end...
I have advanced the saddle on the rails, it's better for climbing.
I used the suspension settings from Trek's website, and found them way to stiff ! I was getting may be half the travel...

 

[Kernow]

Nice bike , lucky to to find one used ,
I found the suspension settings were very close for me . Just removed my eWilds in favour of the original tyres now it’s much drier on the trails

 

[GrandesRoues]

Interesting input. Do you ride more bike parc, with jumps ?
I found the recommended setting really stiff, and was far from full travel even with the reduced pressure.
I also got pain in my wrists, wich is a first for me ! May be something to do with 35mm carbon bars too.

I'm not familliar with the Michelin. They are not so wide for 2.8', only +2mm / schwable 2.35 on arch rims.
I didn't pushed too hard for this first ride, but felt pretty secure. Only losing traction under braking on the rear.
Do you fell like they are no good for dry conditions ?

Another thing a little surprising, is that sound of the motor is louder than what i remembered when i demoed the aluminium version.
Does the carbon "resonnate" more ?
I also found that the noice of the motor disapeard when i'm pedaling not seated ("en danseuse").
Am i the only one ?

 

[Kernow]

Interesting input. Do you ride more bike parc, with jumps ?
I found the recommended setting really stiff, and was far from full travel even with the reduced pressure.
I also got pain in my wrists, wich is a first for me ! May be something to do with 35mm carbon bars too.

I'm not familliar with the Michelin. They are not so wide for 2.8', only +2mm / schwable 2.35 on arch rims.
I didn't pushed too hard for this first ride, but felt pretty secure. Only losing traction under braking on the rear.
Do you fell like they are no good for dry conditions ?

Another thing a little surprising, is that sound of the motor is louder than what i remembered when i demoed the aluminium version.
Does the carbon "resonnate" more ?
I also found that the noice of the motor disapeard when i'm pedaling not seated ("en danseuse").
Am i the only one ?

Mines the alloy model 9 so can’t comment on motor noise difference It’s pretty quiet , certainly quieter than my last shimano e8000
My michelins are 2.6 e wild , not a wide as the original 2.6 bontrager tyres, better in mud and loam but not as good on the bike park hardback and they do give a harsher ride .
No I don’t ride any jump type stuff. More natural rough terrain . I guess it us set up fairly hard , but I prefer that , being a heavier rider . It’s not bottoming out anywhere , maybe worth checking if the extra tokens ‘air spacers have been fitted to your fork .
Always found carbon bars absorbed vibrations , but I have heard some say same as you especially with 35mm . Mine are alloy , no complaints so won’t bother with usual upgrade .

 

[neiloxford]

I fitted these to my rail and no complaints from me ( mine are a different colour ). a bit heavier than standard bars but who cares about a few extra grams on an ebike...

Spank Spike 800 Vibrocore Race handlebar review - MBR

The Vibrocore technology in the Spank Spike 800 bar is supposed to reduce chatter and arm pump but does it work?

www.mbr.co.uk

Spank Spike 800 Vibrocore handlebar review

A stiff, no-nonsense bar with precise feedback

www.bikeradar.com

my rail has the 31.8mm rhythm comp stem fitted

I found 35mm carbon bars too firm on my last bike. not sure if it was the carbon or the 35mm or both.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Another ride, with less pressure in the tires. I'm descending pressure slowly because i fear for my rims (no insert yet).
The grip was really good today.
I didn't touch the suspension, and it's still too stiff (not using full travel), but no wrist soreness this time.

I find the walk mode slow to engage, and you have to push pretty hard all the time on the + button... It gets tiring for the finger !

 

[Kernow]

Another ride, with less pressure in the tires. I'm descending pressure slowly because i fear for my rims (no insert yet).
The grip was really good today.
I didn't touch the suspension, and it's still too stiff (not using full travel), but no wrist soreness this time.

I find the walk mode slow to engage, and you have to push pretty hard all the time on the + button... It gets tiring for the finger !

Iam running 25psi rear and around 18 front on my usual terrain . I always had inserts in my 27.5 but the 29 er with its slightly narrower rims doesnt seem to need them so far . I’ll up the pressures a bit when it’s drier and the going is a bit faster , but not by much . Iam around 100kg

 

[GrandesRoues]

Another ride this morning.
Pressure in the zeb down to 78psi, and i'm still 30mm from full travel. I will try to lower it a bit more.
Pressure in the shock at 200 psi. 6mm of travel left. Feels good to me !
I dont do jumps, i'm 90kg and ride steep natural terrain.

With this softer setup in the rear sock setup i got to much front whell lift in steeps climbs (the one where you are on the easier gear, in turbo, and pushing hard). I found tha fliping the shock lever to the harder position helped.

 

[Kernow]

Another ride this morning.
Pressure in the zeb down to 78psi, and i'm still 30mm from full travel. I will try to lower it a bit more.
Pressure in the shock at 200 psi. 6mm of travel left. Feels good to me !
I dont do jumps, i'm 90kg and ride steep natural terrain.

With this softer setup in the rear sock setup i got to much front whell lift in steeps climbs (the one where you are on the easier gear, in turbo, and pushing hard). I found tha fliping the shock lever to the harder position helped.

New suspension takes a while to bed in , especially forks. They feel even better after a hundred or so miles

 

[GrandesRoues]

Short ride today.
Down to 70psi in the Zeb : very comfy ! But i used nearly full travel. I might go back up a little and try less damping.
I lowered the pressure in the rear Michelin to 1.5 bar. The tire carcass seems very thick. Still not impressed by the grip in humid soil.

 

[Karve]

Hey everyone has thier own setup but.... 70 PSI on a 160mm zeb? - thats the suggested PSI for someone 20kg less than you.

Im 81kg fully kitted and Im running it at 81 PSI which is the recomended setup for my weight... 3 tokens.. considering 4 as im still bottoming in largish landings to flat.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Thanks for the input.
You may want to try to increase the high speed compression damping on your fork (if you can change it, depending on the cartridge, i think you need an rc2).

Yes i think i'm too low in pressure. I need to find some tokens for the zeb to continue experimenting. For now i feel like my zeb is much less confortable on small bumps than the pike on my remedy29.

 

[GrandesRoues]

2 more rides in.
I played with the Zeb once more, going back up in pressure around 77psi, but opening the low speed compression 1 click more than Trek's recommendation, and it was much more confortable than before at the same pressure. I rode some unknown steep singletrack and it didn't dive too much. This is a step in the good direction. I will now try to continue to play with tokens.

At least, i received the screws for my second battery. Here you can see the 3 references. I still miss the panel (on backorder until may)

I proceed to install it. You have to unscrew and remove the standard hatch mechanism in order to install Trek's version. Only the short screws are necessesary (2 at the bottom, 4 at the top, 2 of witch you need to screws with an allen key with a ball tip)


All in all it is 3685g without the side panel. My stock battery weights 4000g (with a little bit of dirt). Is this side panel so heavy ?

I installed in the bike. Works perfect... except the look !

Lets hope the rain stops so that i can now go for 2400+m climbing with both..

As planned, i also worked on the battery location. I had a big gap at the top after unscrewing the bottom screws to try to move the dropper cable. And was uncomfortable with the idea of the battery popping out, and used scotch preventively.
).
I followed the instructions in the sticky, but found that moving the battery in place was difficult. I prefered to pull the battery out, pull the electic connector at the bottom by hand towards the top some millimeters, screw back, and try to install the battery. I now have a much smaller gap at the top, around 2mm.

But i have to use the key to fully insert the battery. Is it the same for yours ?

 

[Kernow]

2 more rides in.
I played with the Zeb once more, going back up in pressure around 77psi, but opening the low speed compression 1 click more than Trek's recommendation, and it was much more confortable than before at the same pressure. I rode some unknown steep singletrack and it didn't dive too much. This is a step in the good direction. I will now try to continue to play with tokens.

At least, i received the screws for my second battery. Here you can see the 3 references. I still miss the panel (on backorder until may)
View attachment 55709
I proceed to install it. You have to unscrew and remove the standard hatch mechanism in order to install Trek's version. Only the short screws are necessesary (2 at the bottom, 4 at the top, 2 of witch you need to screws with an allen key with a ball tip)


All in all it is 3685g without the side panel. My stock battery weights 4000g (with a little bit of dirt). Is this side panel so heavy ?

I installed in the bike. Works perfect... except the look !
View attachment 55714
Lets hope the rain stops so that i can now go for 2400+m climbing with both..

As planned, i also worked on the battery location. I had a big gap at the top after unscrewing the bottom screws to try to move the dropper cable. And was uncomfortable with the idea of the battery popping out, and used scotch preventively.
).
I followed the instructions in the sticky, but found that moving the battery in place was difficult. I prefered to pull the battery out, pull the electic connector at the bottom by hand towards the top some millimeters, screw back, and try to install the battery. I now have a much smaller gap at the top, around 2mm.
View attachment 55715
But i have to use the key to fully insert the battery. Is it the same for yours ?

Yes the key is required to insert the battery , without turning the key it won’t click into place .

 

[GrandesRoues]

I'm not really into tunning of my bikes. The color i prefer for them is ... dirty or dusty !
But on this new bike, i couldn't stand the yellow color rings on the Magura brakes. I found out that Magura is selling other colors, but i found them really expensive for a little bit of plastic ! So i 3D printed some, and i really prefer the result...

 

[GrandesRoues]

With the 2 battery, i can do more than 2500m of climbing, doing old shool epic mountain rides in a morning (4h), witch was exactly the plan when i bought this bike ! So i'm globally happy with my purchase

Regarding brakes, my home made color rings are holding fine in the front, but i lost the ones in the rear. May be they get heated more (i use the rar brake a lot in the steep parts), and the fit becomes less tight ? I put two new rings in, and will let it empty if they don't stay put.
Front brake power is not so great, and the lever comes too close to the bar, might need a bleed.
I put the stock (shorter) stem on, and it's even better in the steep stuff now. My bar (a flat 780mm race face) is still on the low side on step tracks (enduro). I would like to test a higher position, but don't have anymore special sloted spacers.
Climbing step gradients, i started to use the lockout, to prevent rear sag and front wheel lift. I woks grear but i forgot to put it in open position several times... Lever is a bit short, i might try to 3d print something to extand it.
I swapped the chain lubricant to Squirt (after a 3 baths deep ckean), trying the new ebike specific formula. Works well.
I put new saint pedals instead of the old DX.
Rear axle keeps coming loose. Do you have the same problem ?

Future mods :
Rear traction under braking is not so good. I have bought some Tannus tubeless inserts, and plan on installing them to be able to go lower in pressure. I feel like i have too much now, but i fear for my carbon rims. We will see if it works as planned.
Cranks feels too short climbing. I bought some 170mm and 175mm EX1, and will do comparaisons with my 165mm Hope.
Saddle doesn't get low enough in technical terrain. I plan on buying a 210mm drop witch should fit. Oneup? Revive?
We are on lockdown (able to ride 10km from home, so still a lot of mountains with great trails available), and i brought home from work a 3D printed, and will try to make a rear pivot protection deflector.
Handlebar rotation is a bit too limited by the knockblock for tight switchbacks. I tested removing the stem, and my zeb is hitting the carbon downtube by 2mm :-( Do you guys now if the new slash system (wich has more range) could be fitted to our Rails ?

 

[Kernow]

axle coming loose can be caused by a wheel bearing seizing , check your bearings and look for a wear mark where the bearing has been rubbing on the spindle .

 

[GrandesRoues]

short 1700m elevation ride (in turbo) yesterday. The rear axle again became loose mid ride... I haven't remove it to check for size bearing yet. Will do, and if i see nothing, will put some light loctite on the threads of the axle.

I removed pressure in the tires again. I'm now at 1bar front an 1.2bar rear (this is really low for me, i'm 90kg ridding alpin terrain, and only ever went so low on my classical bike with procore). But the Michelin E-enduro are big (2.6, on wide rims), and the carcasse stiff.
Still, rear grip under braking is still lacking. But the rear tire is getting pretty worn out. I will finish it and try something else, with more edges. Not installed Tannus tubeless system yet.

I navigate with my phone and use quadlock case and mounting system. I had a classical mount, in the middle of the right part of my handlebar. It was not very clean, and on big hits the phone would rotate.
I bought a new "outfront mount", because newest one are compatible with my 35mm diameter bar (old one do not). It's much better, looks clean, stay put.
I also bought a cable to be able to power my phone (usb C jack, it's an Samsung S8 with quadlock case), because on 2 batteries "exploratory" rides where i use oruxmap to navigate new unknown trails, the phone would cut off from drain power before the end of the ride (event with a 100% charge just before starting, cutting off the data, cutting the display while ridding).
Kiosk display is rare USB micro A. I didn't want to use any adaptator. I found the perfect cable here : Câble de charge USB Micro A - USB C - 450 mm compatible Bosch
It's works ! On my ride yesterday, i stated with a phone at 30%, and finished full charged, all this while i didn't cut the data !
Cable can be routed around the stem.
Neet setup, very happy !

I'm still playing with suspension. I removed the zeb damping knob to help clearance with the frame in case the knock block fails. What are the 3 positions under the blue lever of the rear shock doing ?
I moved the lever from the "+" position to neutral, and seems to get a more damped rebound ?
edit : from this pdf page38 https://www.sram.com/globalassets/d...suspension-setup-and-tuning-guide-english.pdf it should be a low speed compression adjustment. I will do some test to see if it affects rebound or if it is independant....

 

[GrandesRoues]

So i installed some Tanus tubeless inserts. I went as low as 0.7bar... ! I think 0.9 to 1 bar seems like the sweet spot, with good rolling, grip, and the ability to plow in rocks. I still hope that the rear Michelin would have more grip while braking. May be it's too worn out ? We will see...
With tire pressure dialed, i will stat to play again with suspension settings.
I have received some 170mm and 175mm cranks, will do some test to compare with my 165mm. 213mm dropper is on order also.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Here is some pic of my second battery (without cover for now...).
I don't ride in really muddy conditions.

 

[GrandesRoues]

On this (upside down) pict, i removed the stem and knock block, and spun the bars to the max.
We can see that there is contact of the zeb with my xl carbon frame (look at the gap at the headset, the fork is resting on the frame rather than on the headset bearing).

I since removed the low speed compression dial

 

[GrandesRoues]

So after some problems ordering, i received my Bike Yoke Revive 2.0 in 31.6mm and 213mm drop.
Here it is next to my 150mm Fox transfer that came stock with my bike:

I rotated the fixating bit, but it was not so easy, i had to hold it with plyers (turning in the direct direction to prevent unscrewing)

Here it is in the planned insertion position (28cm from collar to the rails)

I though it was pretty close, but in fact it can go all the way in !

Here it is in the final position? I just reused the existing houssing, but should have cut it a little bit.

Visualy, the bike looks smaller with this seatpost. It's a bit strange !

I did a test ride, works ok. More room to move in the steep bits.

 

[Ajrail9.7]

Good job man

 

[dixie600mhz]

Cool thread. If you're climbing a lot you might want to switch the mino link to high. I switched mine to avoid pedal strikes and am liking it so far. It might also help you with the longer cranks and give you more ground clearance.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Thanks @dixie600mhz , i will definitively try that.
I'm used to a pretty high bottom bracket with my Remedy29 (even in low setting). I have a Chiru Pulse & a Banshee Paradox with loooow BB, the difference with the Remedy in handling is quite dramatic ! The high BB on the Remedy allows me to use 180mm cranks without thinking of hitting stuff, and give a playful handling, but is not so confidence inspiring in the step parts. I'm so much more confident on the Rail with it's huge stability !

I think that the Rail could handle the higher position BB, as in the low position it is pretty close to the ground and i touch things with my 165mm cranks pretty often...
In high position, it would also be cool to put a 170mm shaft in the zeb, to keep the front angle slack, and may be remove the 5mm spacer in the rear shock to get 162mm travel Playing/experiment again with suspension settings will be next, now that my tires pressures are dialed at 0.9bar front and 1.1 rear. I need to find some tokens for the zeb and shock.

For now, with the saddle all the way forward, and the low speed compression on "+", it climbs pretty good even the steep sections and without having to play too much with the lockout lever. Where it could be better is technical climbs with rocks, where i would like to try the high position to be able to pedal more to keep momentum. I have found a perfect "technical uphill flow" climb, with 3 rocky parts i have just been unable to clear without putting a feet down, where i plan to do some testing.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Good job man

Thanks, but on a ride Thursday, after 2 weeks of rain, i went out during a lull in the weather (i ususally don't ride in the wet, but with the covid stuff and load at work i needed to get some fresh air), and rode a nearby known singletrack . The beginning was ok, but then it turn to clay, and the Michelin turned to (big) slicks ! I found myself on a bobsleigh, my front wheel slipped and i eventually crashed slowly on the shoulder i broke last year. It holded ok. My Evoc backpack containing the second battery did is job perfectly. My phone got pullout of the quadlock (first time it happens in years of usage).
Then the Rail landed on me, and that hurt ! I have some good bruises on my legs, damn those ebikes can be painfull So that was not really a "good job" !

 

[GrandesRoues]

Some updates:
-put a cord to hold the kiosk in case of crash, and pay for the update to lock the bike without it.
-i swapped to SQlab 601x saddle. Still testing between sizes.
-i put a One Up carbon bar, to raise the front end. For now, i'm not really sure i like the higher position. Uphill i've got a lot of wheelies. Downhill doesn't seems really faster. Less wrist pain.
-i eventually found some settings wich i like for the ZEB : I opened the low speed compression to get sensitivity, traction, and confort back. For support, i removed all tokens (more linear, and i don't need the ramp up as i don't do big jumps), and increased the pressure to around 75psi.

I still get a lot of pedal strikes. Will test mino link in high. I'm used to a high BB with my Remedy29.

 

[GrandesRoues]

I forgot : i lost the Bosh logo on the left side of my motor !
Seems like this part can be ordered : Bosch eBike - Cache moteur Performance CX Gen.4 (2020)
but do you know it is fixed on the motor ? I can imagine the way it is mounted...

 

[GrandesRoues]

A pic after a 1200m climb, with a big part on asphalt, that used 56% of the batt using the "Tour" mode for my 92Kg.
I did not like too much the SQlab saddle in 14cm. I ordered a 601x in 15cm, and it's very good ! I have tested LOTS of saddles other the years, and this one gives a great support without cutting blood flow. I also like the step down who helps slidding to the rear when i get to the front of the saddle in the really step parts.
I rotated my One Up handlebar (pushing it to the front), and it is much better now, no wrist pain after 1800m of rocky downhill. I'm also pretty happy with my suspension now.

I have received my second cover for the second battery, but not installed it yet (as you can see I will. I received also a new Bosh motor cover, but i'm not sure i will install it.

Still note happy with the Magura brakes. The "ceramic" pads i put in the rear do no work as i want. I ordered some Magura "Race". The calipers are touching the disks, even after a lot of fiddling. This drive me mad !
Second problem is touching the ground with the pedals. I will put on smaller pedals, then i plan on putting the mino link in high, and may be raise the fork to 170mm. This could also allow me to use longer cranks. My knees do not like the 165mm.