Is my bike to small? Need advice. Rise L 6'1 90kg

[RiseCm10]

Quickly about me and my setup. 6ft 1. 90kg. Orbea rise m10 in large. 475 reach. 110psi with 3 tokens in fork. 240 psi with extra 2 tokens in rear.



The problem is that I get the feeling of falling off the front of the bike when doing steep gnarly descents and sometimes when pumping tight berms.



Another way to describe the feeling is imagine pushing the bars away from you when they are near you hip. It will use your shoulders rather than your chest.



Don’t feel like I can really attack and push the bike in because I get this falling off the front sensation.



Didn’t have this issue with my previous bike which was a vitus sommet. Exact same reach and head angle. Slightly longer static front Center due to longer fork and I’m not sure about stack heigh difference. Didn’t have it with my orange stage 6 either at 480mm reach, again longer fork / head angle / front Center.



I could increase reach by a 60mm stem, I could also decrease head angle and increase fork travel to increase the static front Center but I’m worried that under compression that increase will be lost as the fork compresses back towards the head tube which hasn’t changed, but now with a lower reach.



Not sure where to go with this. I don’t want to sell the bike nor do I really want to throw hundreds at parts if it doesn’t fix the issue.



Any suggestions?

 

[Stihldog]

I went to a shorter stem (60mm to 45mm). I didn’t get that weird feeling on descents anymore. Climbing was a bit more challenging though. I’m usually going up or down the mountain so I needed to adjust the geometry to best suit my needs. I’m 5’9” with a medium sized Rail btw. I played around with different geometry settings until it felt right (seat angle, seat distance, dropper length, stem spacers, bar angle etc). Now I don’t worry about it. I don’t think it was the frame geometry in my case.

 

[Stihldog]

Btw, my neighbour who is also 5’9” went with a large frame and regrets that choice.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Bike fit is highly personal and varies greatly. Too top it off, these bike manufacturers don't always measure very accurately.

I'm on an extreme in that at 5'11" I like a Reach around 500-510mm, otherwise I feel like I'm holding on to my knees while standing.

Based on your description, I'd say yes, your bike it too small (for you).

 

[robbydobs]

Covnersely I had a Specialized Evo with a reach of 490mm and at 5'11 I found it far too big.
I have a Commencal with a reach of 460mm and that feels perfect.

Could your fork be diving too much?
I've found more PSI and less tokens in the fork helps with this.

 

[RiseCm10]

Covnersely I had a Specialized Evo with a reach of 490mm and at 5'11 I found it far too big.
I have a Commencal with a reach of 460mm and that feels perfect.

Could your fork be diving too much?
I've found more PSI and less tokens in the fork helps with this.

I have considered this yea and I’ve put another 20psi with the same token. Will test it tomorrow. Then try again with 2 less token and more psi.

I am reluctant to declare the bike to small as I’m sure some decent riders downsize in bike and seems to work for them.

Think my idea around front centre is a waste of time?

Interesting that a smaller stem reduces this feeling? Not sure I understand that?

 

[RiseCm10]

Also worth noting I have put some 800 pnw bars on to see if that changes much but nothing noticeable.

I suppose the stem length could make the steering less sensitive? All my other bikes have had much shorter stems.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

5'7" here in a medium Rise.

It feels like a short bike for some reason. It's not... But it feels short and tall. It's mainly noticeable for me when the saddle is up. It always way felt like I was pitching forwards.

2 things that helped mine were a longer dropper post to get the saddle right down and more recently, higher rise bars (30mm).

The handling with the standard bars, particularly while seated felt skittish and unstable. Higher bars made the bike feel so much more stable. Seated, standing, descending all feel better.

I think the standard bar position drags your weight forward as its really quite low. This is probablycmore pronounced if your tall with long legs and have your saddle at the correct height for peddling.

A shorter stem might help. Sliding the saddle back a bit might help.vHigher bars might help. Just fitting spacers under the stem might help (if you've got space).

There's a lot of things that could help. I guess it's experiment time?

 

[Plummet]

What you are experiencing is not bike too small. Its head angle too steep. The rise is a trail bike with a 66° hta.
That is steep AF by todays standards. What that means is its nice and reactive on easy blue/green trails. But when you get into steep chunk it very quickly gets harder to control.

The solution. Buy a slacker more aggressive bike. The rise is really for blasting green/blue's not sending the steep chunk.

If buying a new bike isn't an option then look at a angle set head set and or slapping some longer travel forks on there to slacken the bike out.

PS, I ride my daughters rise size small i'm 5'11 from time to time. Its too small for me. But its a blast to ride. I do experience what you are talking about on the steep. Its definitely head angle related. That aside its a fun as bike to blast the standard bike park trails.
PSS i'm used to 64 HTA and 63HTA enduro and DH bikes. Slack HTA makes all the difference on steep terrain.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

What you are experiencing is not bike too small. Its head angle too steep. The rise is a trail bike with a 66° hta.
That is steep AF by todays standards. What that means is its nice and reactive on easy blue/green trails. But when you get into steep chunk it very quickly gets harder to control.

The solution. Buy a slacker more aggressive bike. The rise is really for blasting green/blue's not sending the steep chunk.

If buying a new bike isn't an option then look at a angle set head set and or slapping some longer travel forks on there to slacken the bike out.

PS, I ride my daughters rise size small i'm 5'11 from time to time. Its too small for me. But its a blast to ride. I do experience what you are talking about on the steep. Its definitely head angle related. That aside its a fun as bike to blast the standard bike park trails.
PSS i'm used to 64 HTA and 63HTA enduro and DH bikes. Slack HTA makes all the difference on steep terrain.

Sorry but that's just nonsense. It handles steep, rough, chunky stuff just fine if you know how to handle it.

Ok, it might take some getting used to if you're coming from something slacker but to say a trail bike with a 66' ha doesn't ride anything beyond blue/ green is rubbish.

 

[MOG]

6 foot and 90 kilos here on a Large H15 with 150mm Fox 36 factory (3 tokens). Fits like a glove and I will take it down absolutely anything. Goes down the steeps better in fact than my old 27.5 enduro bike which had a 64 degree HA.

 

[Plummet]

Sorry but that's just nonsense. It handles steep, rough, chunky stuff just fine if you know how to handle it.

Ok, it might take some getting used to if you're coming from something slacker but to say a trail bike with a 66' ha doesn't ride anything beyond blue/ green is rubbish.

Its not nonsense at all, and its exactly the issue that op is facing. Sure you can ride rediculous stuff on steeper head angle bikes. But that is a skilled rider adapting to a less optomised bike. Not the bike being ideal for the conditions.

If you knew me you would know I chase the rediculous steep chunk. I do it, and am very good at it. The rise is not optimised for steep chunk. It will feel more difficult to control sooner than a slacker bike. What that point of less control is will very much be dependent on rider skill level.

I still stand by my statement. The rise is optimised for blue greens and standard trail riding. Its not a chunk swollowing am or enduro bike. its a 140/150 trail bike and tha'ts exactly what it rides like. I will be honest I am impressed by what it can ride. But its still a low travel trail bike. If you want to smash agressive chunk its the wrong steed.

 

[irie]

...
If you knew me you would know I chase the rediculous steep chunk. I do it, and am very good at it.

Don't be so modest Plummet, let us know how you really rate yourself.

 

[Plummet]

Don't be so modest Plummet, let us know how you really rate yourself.

Its what I do, steep chunk. That's my specialty. I literally climb mountains hike a bike to ride the barely ridable, sometimes not rideable mayhem.... So,,, i am accutely aware of what is good and what is not good as it gets steeper and steeper.

Yeah i get that it sounds arrogant. But sometimes you need context behind your statements. Plus I haven't been on this forum long enough for dudes to know what and how I ride. I could be some chump unable to ride the silly. But that is not the case. I chase it, ride it, spec my bikes around steep riding. When i get on the rise and ride it. I feel the impact of the steeper head angle. I can still ride some silly stuff with it. But its definitely more challenging than my slacker steads.

Here's a picture montage of stupid steep for reference.

View attachment IMG_0348.JPG

 

[wildsau2]

@RiseCm10
my orbea rise is size L, stem 40mm
i am 6.0 (183cm). perfect for me.

with 6.1 you could try a 50mm stem.

 

[RiseCm10]

6 foot and 90 kilos here on a Large H15 with 150mm Fox 36 factory (3 tokens). Fits like a glove and I will take it down absolutely anything. Goes down the steeps better in fact than my old 27.5 enduro bike which had a 64 degree HA.

What psi are you running bud? No changes?

 

[RiseCm10]

Interesting about pushing the cog back. Same with increasing rise which I have done slightly with PNW.

I’ll try a shorter stem, higher rise bars, and less token more Psi and see how I get better on.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I’ll report back in a few months

 

[RiseCm10]

I think the rise can take a slacker head and increased travel. Just don’t want to go down that road and keep the same problem.

 

[Shjay]

The Rise is a 66deg head angle at 140mm travel upfront on the M20, at 150mm travel of M10 65.5 & if running 160mm forks like lots of folk 65 head angle. It’s a trail bike but very capable, I have loads of pbs on this bike, my previous bike was a Vitus esommet. Am 5,11 with long torso on a large & love the fit, 42.5 stem & 35mm one up rise bars

 

[RiseCm10]

Ok. Out round my local swinley which obviously is rather mellow but the difference is noticeable with an extra 20psi in the fork. Was minor at first but as started to gain confidence and push more and more it feels good.

Still some in front of the bars feeling but let’s see if the further tweaks can iron that out.

Also need to try it on some gnar still.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[irie]

Yeah i get that it sounds arrogant.

Absolutely not, you come across as a model of modesty.

 

[RiseCm10]

Few observations to note. The over the bars feeling is still there but it’s quite minor. Tons more front end grip and ability to attack the berms. Fantastic.

There has been compromises however. The fork feels a bit springy and when I went 90% attack a little out of control. I’m the past this has mean rebound being to fast so will slow it off a notch.

On a couple of jumps I found the front was a little lazy into the air which is probably the opposite treatment from above.

Noticeably harsher on the hands.

I am thinking drop a click slow speed compression to help with the harshness and perhaps up a click low speed to help with pressing in and perhaps take a token out at the same pressure.

I also didn’t use 23mm of travel. Didn’t hit anything mental. 6ft drop a couple of times but easy landing.

Tuning I think is a bit of a dark art which i don’t possess but I do posses a shock wiz but that really only gets to ball park like factory settings.

 

[DarrenCC]

Few observations to note. The over the bars feeling is still there but it’s quite minor. Tons more front end grip and ability to attack the berms. Fantastic.

There has been compromises however. The fork feels a bit springy and when I went 90% attack a little out of control. I’m the past this has mean rebound being to fast so will slow it off a notch.

On a couple of jumps I found the front was a little lazy into the air which is probably the opposite treatment from above.

Noticeably harsher on the hands.

I am thinking drop a click slow speed compression to help with the harshness and perhaps up a click low speed to help with pressing in and perhaps take a token out at the same pressure.

I also didn’t use 23mm of travel. Didn’t hit anything mental. 6ft drop a couple of times but easy landing.

Tuning I think is a bit of a dark art which i don’t possess but I do posses a shock wiz but that really only gets to ball park like factory settings.

I’m 6 foot tall on a large Rise, love it but a riding friend is 6’2” and always prefers an XL.
If you are still running the Fox 34, change it for something stiffer and with more travel, the 34 is a wet noodle on an e-bike, even a lightweight one like the Rise.
I have changed the rear shock to give 160mm travel, corrected with offset bushings. The stock handlebar was way too xc so swapped that for a 35 rise and slightly shorter stem. Changed the 34 for a 36 Trace running 170mm travel, the higher front end makes it a demon on the downs.
At the very least you will feel a benefit from a higher bar but I definitely recommend a better fork. I did all my changes incrementally, just tinker with things bit by bit

 

[#lazy]

All these numbers don’t really mean anything , if you send in pics of yourself riding the bike in different situations you’ll get a better ideas imo !

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

20psi is a big change.

22% if you started at 110.

With that much extra pressure, I'd consider dropping a token or 2 which should help with the fact you're still seeing 23mm travel unused. Not using the last 10mm is I guess a good thing. 23mm is a waste. Definitely slowdown the rebound with that much of a change.

Fewer tokens with more LSC should see you maintain the support of the higher pressure but lessen the ramp up towards to the of the travel.

If increasing rebound damping doesn't get rid of the 'springy' feeling then I'd drop 5 psi and try again.

You mention a harshness with the higher spring rate. If you got HSC adjustment then I'd look at opening that up a bit also.

I think you're heading in the right direction by the sounds of things. Keep fiddling with it.

 

[RiseCm10]

20psi is a big change.

22% if you started at 110.

With that much extra pressure, I'd consider dropping a token or 2 which should help with the fact you're still seeing 23mm travel unused. Not using the last 10mm is I guess a good thing. 23mm is a waste. Definitely slowdown the rebound with that much of a change.

Fewer tokens with more LSC should see you maintain the support of the higher pressure but lessen the ramp up towards to the of the travel.

If increasing rebound damping doesn't get rid of the 'springy' feeling then I'd drop 5 psi and try again.

You mention a harshness with the higher spring rate. If you got HSC adjustment then I'd look at opening that up a bit also.

I think you're heading in the right direction by the sounds of things. Keep fiddling with it.

Thanks yes I’m surprised at the change. I’ve basically reset the sag.

Turns out I already had hsc fully open. Lsc half way. So slowed down hsc one click.

For rebound I put 2 clicks slower of hsr (the fast out of control feeling) and 1 click fast Lsr (pop off lips?).

All a bit of a guess but going to try this before taking a token out to try and narrow down the feeling of each setting.

I would say at the moment the front to rear doesn’t feel balanced. Not sure the cause yet.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Thanks yes I’m surprised at the change. I’ve basically reset the sag.

Turns out I already had hsc fully open. Lsc half way. So slowed down hsc one click.

For rebound I put 2 clicks slower of hsr (the fast out of control feeling) and 1 click fast Lsr (pop off lips?).

All a bit of a guess but going to try this before taking a token out to try and narrow down the feeling of each setting.

I would say at the moment the front to rear doesn’t feel balanced. Not sure the cause yet.

Open the HSC fully if its feeling harsh. Slowing down (adding) HSC is making it harder to compress the fork on fast impacts. That sounds like the last thing you want.

Tokens only affect the end of the stroke so adding/ removing won't affect the feel of most of your ride. It will change how hard it is to use all of the travel though.

With such a big change in pressure, if you're wanting to stick with it then I'd probably run HSC/LSC wide open for a bit and only add LSC if you feel like you're not getting enough support in corners. If you're not getting enough Support however then you must have been waaay low on pressure before.

I'd still go 5psi less. Dampers wide open. Rebound in the middle. Add some LSC if you feel like you want more support.

My thinking is that if the front feels lazy off the lip of a jump then you're either low on pressure (unlikely now) or your rebound is too slow (too much damping).

If you've had to add more rebound because you felt like the fork was springy, and it's now too slow to pop off a lip, then your pressure is probably too high and you're having to use excessive rebound damping to tame it.

 

[Ark]

Assuming your bike has a dropper post then you are lowering it when going down hill?

Also move your saddle backwords on the rail to just before the "stop mark"

 

[Tony4wd]

What you are experiencing is not bike too small. Its head angle too steep. The rise is a trail bike with a 66° hta.
That is steep AF by todays standards. What that means is its nice and reactive on easy blue/green trails. But when you get into steep chunk it very quickly gets harder to control.

I like that explanation, helps me get my head around the differences between my bikes. I've found I need to get my bum farther back off the seat on steep descents on the Rise H30 to avoid the over-the-handlebars feeling.

 

[RiseCm10]

Not updated this thread in a while. I tested a mates SL which didnt have this handling characteristic with even shorter reach. I have since mulleted the rise and the sensation is gone. Mulleting will essentially shorten reach, increase stack height, decrease head angle, reduce BB. I can only conclude as someone has pointed out it is due to headangle and center of gravity. I will play around with stack height/longer fork back on the 29/29 setup at some point but I'm loving it as a mullet at the moment. I have also gone back to stock tokens and a bit softer pressures but getting through the shock a bit too easily at the moment.