Is it me or did EMTBing explode?

[Jline2020]

Around the Seattle, WA area in the Pacific Northwest in the USA there are tons of eMTB. I would say now at least 50-70% out on the trails.

Are they legal to ride there on single track, or, are folks ignoring the rules? Here in Boulder CO they are not allowed on single track, but are allowed on commuter paths. I’m trying to change this and personally believe Class 1 eBikes should be allowed anywhere analog bikes are allowed.

 

[Stihldog]

Just remember to behave yourselves, for instance:

1) Try not to go blowing past analogue bikes on the ascent with full assist. Be considerate and pass them at maybe 2-4 mph like you would on a normally bike. And signal that you're coming as normal.

2) Be mindful that you're carrying 10lbs or so more, try to go easy on the trails and not tear them up unnecessarily.

3) If you going to de-restrict you're ebike for the love of God don't blow past regular cyclists at 30 mph, keep to the legal limits among other cyclists and on group rides especially. Reserve your de-restricted tune for that boring long fireroad where no one can see you or have a reason to complain.

4) Be considerate of everyone else using the trails. If you encounter hikers, joggers, horses etc slow down and maybe say hello like you normally would.

This eMTB thing is great, it's allowed me as a not yet old but aging rider to get out there and ride like I'm 25 again. I love being out in nature an exploring new trails. But I can also see this eMTB thing quickly being ruined by a few bad apples who think they're on an electric enduro bike and that it's a free for all.

If people can't behave, and go tearing up the countryside causing mayhem and disturbing others who want to enjoy nature, then the risk that some sort of ban will be put in place becomes high. eMTB's would then be relegated to a regular roads and a few select closed off parks and dedicated trails, and that would be a real shame.

These are easy, simple and courteous rules to use that may bode us well. I would like to see our areas used by many But certain mixes may not make sense. ATV’s and Motor Cross may not mix well with hikers and bikers. There could also be conflicts between hikers and bikers. I’m an advocate of multi-use trails where it makes sense. It’s defining that sensibility that’s the rub.

A few days ago, on an access road, I stopped to talk to a dog-walker I know who was talking to a MTB’er. All three of us were from different genre’s. The MTB’er had helped construct a fabulous feature on an existing trail we were standing next to. This popular trail has now become a single user trail for MTB’ers only. No hikers, one direction only and closed off after any rainfall. Another hiker had emerged and started to walk up the now restricted trail. The MTBer yelled at the hiker several times and verbally enforced the ‘no-hiker” rule. Now I wonder who this hiker is going to talk to. I personally cannot ride down this trail anymore because the difficulty level is to high and there are no “chicken-lanes” around this feature. I hope this is not the beginning of user-specific areas.

 

[Planckus]

I actually made an observation today. Sun shining and many peps out in the forest walking dogs and going for saturday walk. When going near other people, then just slow a bit down, and say something like: I am passing you slowly on your right side, and most says “have a great ride”, and I return it with a “likewise, and thank you for letting me by”. It actually makes a BIG difference for both them and me. Some actually starts asking about the bike, and i won’t mind stopping for a small chat - can only say that it makes a better day for all involved. I often see other people race by taking no notice of other people, and it does create “situations” that aren’t needed. Why not have a great day with tons of smiles - just my humble opinion

 

[flash]

Manners always matter, and not just on an eBike. I'm always polite to the people around me. I act exactly the same way on an acoustic, except there's not fucking chance I'm overtaking anyone without a motor. So I have no special *rules* when riding a bike.

People who think they're more important than others around them, usually aren't.

Gordon

p.s. Saw a guy yesterday with a lovely Focus Sam2 so went up to admire it (in a COVID safe way). He didn't know we had eBikes. First thing he did was offer us a ride around the car park. So nice. Great bloke. Glad that this is normal here.

 

[>moto<]

Just remember to behave yourselves, for instance:

1) Try not to go blowing past analogue bikes on the ascent with full assist. Be considerate and pass them at maybe 2-4 mph like you would on a normal bike. And signal that you're coming as normal.

2) Be mindful that you're carrying 10lbs or so more, try to go easy on the trails and not tear them up unnecessarily.

3) If you're going to de-restrict you're ebike for the love of God don't blow past regular cyclists at 30 mph, keep to the legal limits among other cyclists and on group rides especially. Reserve your de-restricted tune for that boring long fireroad where no one can see you or have a reason to complain.

4) Be considerate of everyone else using the trails. If you encounter hikers, joggers, horses etc slow down and maybe say hello like you normally would.

This eMTB thing is great, it's allowed me as a not yet old but aging rider to get out there and ride like I'm 25 again. I love being out in nature an exploring new trails. But I can also see this eMTB thing quickly being ruined by a few bad apples who think they're on an electric enduro bike and that it's a free for all.

If people can't behave, and go tearing up the countryside causing mayhem and disturbing others who want to enjoy nature, then the risk that some sort of ban will be put in place becomes high. eMTB's would then be relegated to a regular roads and a few select closed off parks and dedicated trails, and that would be a real shame.

I don't agree with points 1 & 2. Pass people at whatever speed you want if it's safe to do so. If they don't like it they can get an eBike themselves. Point 2 - are you kidding? Should 90Kg riders ride slower than 85Kg riders (10lbs less) so that they dont 'tear up the trail'?

 

[robert]

Went for a 20k ride yesterday and fixed up a few trails/roads along the way. I probably spent 5 hours total on our mountain. Since it was a Monday the hiking and mtb-ing was less than the weekend. As hikers and bikers went by I chatted with whoever would pause or whoever needed directions.
Then I realized how many EMTB there was. It was at least 50%. I’ve never seen this many before. For those that stopped, or paused, we shared the similarities of our peddle assist chariots. We offered hints, tips and advice to each other. Even though it was sunny and kinda warm, this experience was a little different.

Probably something to do with the pandemic a lot of people who aren’t used to cycling an EMTB is a good choice cycling is one of the very few things left to do in theses strange times.

 

[Stihldog]

I don't agree with points 1 & 2. Pass people at whatever speed you want if it's safe to do so. If they don't like it they can get an eBike themselves. Point 2 - are you kidding? Should 90Kg riders ride slower than 85Kg riders (10lbs less) so that they dont 'tear up the trail'?

Regarding point 1;
The sound of a bike-bell ? is a universal signal that indicates something is behind you. I know they can look goofy and clutter up the cockpit but they usually get someone’s attention when it’s used. During crowded or busy days (mostly weekends) a bell works much better than shouting every time. If I know I’m going to ride in a remote area, I don’t bring one with me. (That truck horn video is kinda funny ?).

Since I’m able to travel faster I encounter many users (hikers and bikers) on a two-way double track or fire-road. Approaching hikers from behind is funny sometimes. Groups can split up and then suddenly re-split in a matter of seconds. I really slow down when I need to “thread-the-needle” or when a dog is present. The unpredictability of some hikers and bikers could be a serious moment and dangerous, given the speeds at which I can travel (32kmh or 20mph). I would hate to crash into something or someone at that speed. I’m sure an incident like that would be further amo to restrict our access.

Regarding point 2;
It’s all relevant. The combined weight of me and my EMTB can be less than some MTB and rider. Sliding on some types of trails is usually un-necessary and I can quickly rip/up some trails if I want to. Most of us know that sliding has less control but may be necessary at times in order to make that tight turn. The increased traffic or frequency of use plays a factor also. (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Most riders are conscious of the impact of weather or overuse and our additional weight can have a slight effect.
On certain days I carry a small garden shovel and saw in a backpack. I can access these areas quicker than most and sometimes it only takes 15min away from my ride. Not everyone has the luxury of spare time…but if you do…it can go a long ways.

 

[Gary]

The sound of a bike-bell ? is a universal signal that indicates something is behind you. I know they can look goofy and clutter up the cockpit but they usually get someone’s attention when it’s used. During crowded or busy days (mostly weekends) a bell works much better than shouting every time. If I know I’m going to ride in a remote area

Fuck bells. (unless you're mute)

Try actually making the effort speak instead of acting like some sort of city living freak afraid to communicate with other humans. I live rurally and since covid restrictions the immediate countryside to me has become over run with the socially stinted. It's not a bell that's required. It's common sense and basic social skills. The only time you should be shouting is to warn someone of danger. If you're passing dangerously enough to require shouting every time you meet another human being then you're most likely a dick.

 

[Hamina]

Just remember to behave yourselves, for instance:

2) Be mindful that you're carrying 10lbs or so more, try to go easy on the trails and not tear them up unnecessarily.

3) If you're going to de-restrict you're ebike for the love of God don't blow past regular cyclists at 30 mph, keep to the legal limits among other cyclists and on group rides especially. Reserve your de-restricted tune for that boring long fireroad where no one can see you or have a reason to complain.

Those are good guides, but the there's couple of cases where things don't go like that.

Point 2: By your logic we'll end to maximum total weight limitations on trails. The fattys are not allowed. Sorry for them.

Point 3: The limitation is for assistance, not speed. I can still ride 30mph pass and it shouldn't be an EMTB specific problem.

 

[Stihldog]

Fuck bells. (unless you're mute)

Try actually making the effort speak instead of acting like some sort of city living freak afraid to communicate with otrher humans. I live rurally and since covid restrictions the immediate countryside to me has become overrun with the socially stinted. It's not a bell that's required. It's common sense and basic social skills. The only time you should be shouting is to warn someone of danger. If you're passing dangerously enough to require shouting every time you meet another human being then you're most likely a dick.

I usually shout fair warning to hikers and bikers when I approach from behind, and I lower my speed. I try not to be a dick about it. My approach can be quiet enough that I could startle anyone if I don’t give fair warning. A group of hikers, talking amongst themselves, may not hear me until it’s too late. A solo hiker with ear-buds in place would probably never hear my voice. They also better realize the situation they’ve put themselves in. Regardless, I do my do diligence when I pass.
When I need to, usually on the weekends, I ring-da-bell. I get tired of shouting my presence.

When the wife and I ride on the flats, other users seem oblivious to the “rules”. A bell is necessity in these areas.

Our area is a multi-use network of trails geared towards hikers and bikers.I hope it stays this way. But an incident may change that.

 

[Stihldog]

Fuck bells. (unless you're mute)
If you're passing dangerously enough to require shouting every time you meet another human being then you're most likely a dick.

I suppose I used the wrong term when I said “shout”.

“On your right” or “on your left “ or “hello” …loud enough so those ahead of me can hear. Once I pass safely I conclude with a “thank you “.
Saying nothing and passing quickly could leave the impression of being a “dick”.

 

[Stihldog]

Fuck bells. (unless you're mute)…to require shouting every time you meet another human being then you're most likely a dick.

Wait, are you Scottish? Cause that explains a few things. I married a Scottish girl and now we have 7 kids. It tooth me 3 years to understand her father. His name was Dick…we called him lil-Dicky. Was one of my best friends when he passed.

 

[Gary]

Yes. I'm Scottish.
Scotland has a huge range of accents. Mine really isn't difficult to understand.

 

[Planckus]

Wait, are you Scottish? Cause that explains a few things. I married a Scottish girl and now we have 7 kids. It tooth me 3 years to understand her father. His name was Dick…we called him lil-Dicky. Was one of my best friends when he passed.

my sister and her husband lives north of Aberdeen - I can understand my sister, but the rest of the family, including my nieces, I have to litterally ask them to speak slowly and try to simulate english - but bloody good people! ??

 

[Stihldog]

my sister and her husband lives north of Aberdeen - I can understand my sister, but the rest of the family, including my nieces, I have to litterally ask to speak slowly and try to simulate english - but bloody good people! ??

I just nodded and smiled for the first few years. He must have thought I was an idiot. One of the best accents out there. My mother apparently has a very strong French accent. None of my friends could understand her. Anyways, a lot of Scott’s in Winnipeg MB. LilDicky moved to the Vancouver area with his family. Then I met my wife. (no accent btw).

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I

I come across roadies at our local cafes who block the doorways etc with their bikes,2 hours to sip 1 latte while family's are turned away because there is no tables left,, they have all the gear but no idea, we call them the "Gucci club", the best gear available to do their weekly 30km ride, more time is spent at the cafe socialising then actually riding, mostly professionals like doctors, accountants lawyers etc, it's funny as fuck, we will go in there to grab some more water for our camelbaks, covered in mud with a big grin on our face you should see the looks we get from the "too good" for everyone else snobs.. if there is someone reading this post in the above-mentioned profession or a roadie don't get your knickers in a knot!!! .... The reason I know their profession is because we are from the same town,they leave their lights on/flashing while in the cafe, apparently it's "cool"
???

So... there’s a bunch of guys who think they’re better than a bunch of guys who think they’re better than the previous bunch of guys who think that they really are better than them? ? ? ?

 

[DtEW]

1) Try not to go blowing past analogue bikes on the ascent with full assist. Be considerate and pass them at maybe 2-4 mph like you would on a normal bike. And signal that you're coming as normal.

I only agree with this if we’re talking about all-parties-participating passing on singletrack-ish and the passing is in close enough quarters where you want to assure that if somebody makes a mistake or an unpredicted move, the outcome won’t be disastrous.

Because if there is room to pass safely (obviously still with all parties made aware) with some speed (eg. fireroads)... there is no good to spending more time than necessary dispersing/inhaling/intermingling micro-droplet aerosols from separate households.

There is no magical virus-nullifying property of outdoors air aside from the inability for aerosols and microdroplets to remain concentrated in one place for long. But you (and other hard-breathers) are both expelling and intaking more than than otherwise, so approaching and lingering in another person’s aerosol stream (which has a concentration gradient) is a bad idea for all concerned.

Of course, the context from which this approach arises is that of a riding style that normally rides/climbs at 10-20% FF assistance, and only using 100% FF assistance for the short 40ft-or-so of a fireroad pass, then dropping back down immediately at a reasonable distance so the passee isn’t immediately behind you sucking down your hard-breathing aerosols, even if it has to pass through a mask.

So basically nothing about assuaging the ego of the passee per your rationale, but rather consideration of public health.

Besides, the passee will see your post-pass normal speed, which they will see for awhile just ahead since you’re not joyriding on 100%.

 

[The Hodge]

I

I come across roadies at our local cafes who block the doorways etc with their bikes,2 hours to sip 1 latte while family's are turned away because there is no tables left,, they have all the gear but no idea, we call them the "Gucci club", the best gear available to do their weekly 30km ride, more time is spent at the cafe socialising then actually riding, mostly professionals like doctors, accountants lawyers etc, it's funny as fuck, we will go in there to grab some more water for our camelbaks, covered in mud with a big grin on our face you should see the looks we get from the "too good" for everyone else snobs.. if there is someone reading this post in the above-mentioned profession or a roadie don't get your knickers in a knot!!! .... The reason I know their profession is because we are from the same town,they leave their lights on/flashing while in the cafe, apparently it's "cool"
???

Rewind 25 years ..and I could have written this post ..it has always been so ..with the exception of the flashing lights ..progress eh !?

 

[Tim1023]

I

I come across roadies at our local cafes who block the doorways etc with their bikes,2 hours to sip 1 latte while family's are turned away because there is no tables left,, they have all the gear but no idea, we call them the "Gucci club", the best gear available to do their weekly 30km ride, more time is spent at the cafe socialising then actually riding, mostly professionals like doctors, accountants lawyers etc, it's funny as fuck, we will go in there to grab some more water for our camelbaks, covered in mud with a big grin on our face you should see the looks we get from the "too good" for everyone else snobs.. if there is someone reading this post in the above-mentioned profession or a roadie don't get your knickers in a knot!!! .... The reason I know their profession is because we are from the same town,they leave their lights on/flashing while in the cafe, apparently it's "cool"
???

With regard to having a coffee in the middle of the ride, I REALLY miss the hole-in-the-wall cafe at the top of Leith Hill in Surrey. Great cakes too. Sitting on a simple wooden bench, enjoying the view over the valley with your friends before enjoying the descent. Simply brilliant.

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

With regard to having a coffee in the middle of the ride, I REALLY miss the hole-in-the-wall cafe at the top of Leith Hill in Surrey. Great cakes too. Sitting on a simple wooden bench, enjoying the view over the valley with your friends before enjoying the descent. Simply brilliant.
View attachment 51107

Used to live in Spain until recently. Loved having coffee in the morning in rural villages or by the beach. This is a picture from where I lived (Orihuela Costa, south of Alicante).

 

[Tubby G]

Rewind 25 years ..and I could have written this post ..it has always been so ..with the exception of the flashing lights ..progress eh !?

I've always found MTB'ing to have a certain amount of snobbery attached with the 'sport', all the latest bikes & gear with barely a scratch on them, especially at trail centres such as Dalby. It used to bother me, so much that I switched to motorbikes instead, but now I'm older & wiser I couldn't give a toss and just enjoy the two wheeled ride whether it's leg, battery or petrol powered!

 

[>moto<]

Sage words indeed DtEW.

there is no good to spending more time than necessary dispersing/inhaling/intermingling micro-droplet aerosols from separate households.

I agree, but my girlfriend always complains I disperse my aerosols too fast.

But you (and other hard-breathers) are both expelling and intaking more than than otherwise, so approaching and lingering in another person’s aerosol stream is a bad idea for all concerned.

That's very open minded of you. I suppose I'll just have to rely on your earlier advice if I find myself in such a situation:

is in close enough quarters where you want to assure that if somebody makes a mistake or an unpredicted move, the outcome won’t be disastrous.

Nobody needs a disaster when lingering in another persons aerosol stream. Especially if they are:

immediately behind you sucking down your hard-breathing aerosols

Be careful out there people.

 

[Tonybro]

Rewind 25 years ..and I could have written this post ..it has always been so ..with the exception of the flashing lights ..progress eh !?

Happens with skiing too. Has done since I was skiing regularly in the early 80s. Nothing new... ?

 

[paul-g]

I suppose I used the wrong term when I said “shout”.

“On your right” or “on your left “ or “hello” …loud enough so those ahead of me can hear. Once I pass safely I conclude with a “thank you “.
Saying nothing and passing quickly could leave the impression of being a “dick”.

try doing that with a dog or maybe 2 dogs must add not on leads

 

[Stihldog]

try doing that with a dog or maybe 2 dogs must add not on leads

Got a soft spot for dogs. Hikers and Mountain Bikers exercise their canines on our fire roads and trails. I’ve had the occasional pup try to chew my peddle as I pass or leave with me all together. After a few hundred meters I circle back with the dog to see the owners panic or relief.
Helped a fellow emtber find his dog a few days ago. We covered a lot of ground quickly and I found “Rover” up a fire road. At our rendezvous point the owner was relieved.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I've always found MTB'ing to have a certain amount of snobbery attached with the 'sport'...

Yep, snobbery and elitism can also occur within the same sub-genre... even amongst fellow EEB riders.

During the Christmas break, my family and I went on a short beach holiday. We also took our bikes to search for places to ride and discover. Next morning we decided it was easier to cycle to a nearby beach front cafe to have breakfast which we took outside to enjoy the scenery and sat right next to our bikes.

Out of the blue a rider on a high-spec Trek rode purposefully towards us. It looked like he was about to start a conversation when he noticed that my bike was just a Giant Trance e+3Pro (the lowest spec out of the 2019 release). He did a slow U-turn all the while fully gazing at our bikes - completely ignoring us at arms length even though I acknowledged him. Obviously having changed his mind, he then rode back to the access road where he came out from. I laughed... relieved that I didn't have to waste my time on niceties with someone so rude if not shallow.

Maybe the 'cafe culture' inadvertently percolates this condition because surely people drinking brewed coffee are superior to those drinking just instant powdered coffee. I mean... coffee with with a head of frothed full cream milk with a 'drawing' on top surely differentiates distinguished patrons from the coffee-creamer masses?

Perhaps my bike and the coffee I was drinking didn't quite measure up. I have to say, the drawing on my coffee wasn't as good that morning... normally I get a 'heart' or a 'fern' but the barista must've had a hang-over. All I got was a drawing that looked like an 'MRI scan' and it obviously didn't impress Mr Trek... ?

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

Yep, snobbery and elitism can also occur within the same sub-genre... even amongst fellow EEB riders.

During the Christmas break, my family and I went on a short beach holiday. We also took our bikes to search for places to ride and discover. Next morning we decided it was easier to cycle to a nearby beach front cafe to have breakfast which we took outside to enjoy the scenery and sat right next to our bikes.

View attachment 51198

Out of the blue a rider on a high-spec Trek rode purposefully towards us. It looked like he was about to start a conversation when he noticed that my bike was just a Giant Trance e+3Pro (the lowest spec out of the 2019 release). He did a slow U-turn all the while fully gazing at our bikes - completely ignoring us at arms length even though I acknowledged him. Obviously having changed his mind, he then rode back to the access road where he came out from. I laughed... relieved that I didn't have to waste my time on niceties with someone so rude if not shallow.

Maybe the 'cafe culture' inadvertently percolates this condition because surely people drinking brewed coffee are superior to those drinking just instant powdered coffee. I mean... coffee with with a head of frothed full cream milk with a 'drawing' on top surely differentiates distinguished patrons from the coffee-creamer masses?

Perhaps my bike and the coffee I was drinking didn't quite measure up. I have to say, the drawing on my coffee wasn't as good that morning... normally I get a 'heart' or a 'fern' but the barista must've had a hang-over. All I got was a drawing that looked like an 'MRI scan' and it obviously didn't impress Mr Trek... ?

Looks like a very nice place for a breakfast, even though the bike obviously isn't up to par! ??

 

[flash]

Yep, snobbery and elitism can also occur within the same sub-genre... even amongst fellow EEB riders.

During the Christmas break, my family and I went on a short beach holiday. We also took our bikes to search for places to ride and discover. Next morning we decided it was easier to cycle to a nearby beach front cafe to have breakfast which we took outside to enjoy the scenery and sat right next to our bikes.

View attachment 51198

Out of the blue a rider on a high-spec Trek rode purposefully towards us. It looked like he was about to start a conversation when he noticed that my bike was just a Giant Trance e+3Pro (the lowest spec out of the 2019 release). He did a slow U-turn all the while fully gazing at our bikes - completely ignoring us at arms length even though I acknowledged him. Obviously having changed his mind, he then rode back to the access road where he came out from. I laughed... relieved that I didn't have to waste my time on niceties with someone so rude if not shallow.

Maybe the 'cafe culture' inadvertently percolates this condition because surely people drinking brewed coffee are superior to those drinking just instant powdered coffee. I mean... coffee with with a head of frothed full cream milk with a 'drawing' on top surely differentiates distinguished patrons from the coffee-creamer masses?

Perhaps my bike and the coffee I was drinking didn't quite measure up. I have to say, the drawing on my coffee wasn't as good that morning... normally I get a 'heart' or a 'fern' but the barista must've had a hang-over. All I got was a drawing that looked like an 'MRI scan' and it obviously didn't impress Mr Trek... ?

Or maybe he thought he recognised you and upon seeing your bike realised he didn't. Or maybe he was interested in your Merida e160...

People aren't always evil. Maybe you read the situation wrong?

Gordon

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Or maybe he thought he recognised you and upon seeing your bike realised he didn't. Or maybe he was interested in your Merida e160...

People aren't always evil. Maybe you read the situation wrong?

Gordon

Yes, there's always that... and tis always a good idea to give each other the benefit of the doubt. Who knows, maybe he was checking to see if my bike was a stolen bike that he was on the look out for.

Although... if I came right up close to you, while studying your bike intently as if to spot a scratch of some sort, and then I just walked away even if you smiled and said hi... I wouldn't blame you if you thought I needed to polish up on some manners. Like I said, I just laughed it off. I don't believe I described him anywhere near evil... but definitely rude... or impolite perhaps.

 

[Tubby G]

Yep, snobbery and elitism ...

Around 7 or 8 years ago, before I threw in the MTB towel, I was sat at Dixons Hollow watching some teenage lads on BMX’s absolutely killing the big jump section. Backflips, huge airs, you name it, landed each and every time, no helmets, no protection, just massive balls

Along come Tarquin & Rupert on their high spec ‘never seen the winter or mud’ full suspension bikes, prop their bikes against some trees, take photos of THEIR bikes on an expensive Canon SLR camera from the rucksack, before sitting down to open their quinoa salad packed lunches with fresh super greens & sprouted beans

They watched the lads on the BMX’s hanging upside down mid air in frozen time for a minute or two. Tarquin turns to Rupert and says ‘I see they’ve let the riff raff in’, Rupert replies ‘maybe they should start a members only scheme at Dalby

That was the point I realised the MTB scene was heading in the wrong direction