Is it me or did EMTBing explode?

Velociraptor

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Oct 10, 2020
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Pacific Northwest
I'll bet that pisses the EMBA off, they have been pretty vocal about their distaste for them since day one. Has never stopped me from riding in WA when I'm up there though.
The woman who heads EMBA seems to be sympathetic to eMTB and recognizes they are here to stay. Her biggest worry is that there will be big time pushback from environmental groups and/or hiking groups so she is all for using caution to not trigger anything. I sympathize with her. I have listened in on some EMBA round tables on the subject. Oregon is a whole other story. There is a lot of anti-eMTB feeling there.
 

jsharpe

Active member
May 15, 2019
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USA
The woman who heads EMBA seems to be sympathetic to eMTB and recognizes they are here to stay. Her biggest worry is that there will be big time pushback from environmental groups and/or hiking groups so she is all for using caution to not trigger anything. I sympathize with her. I have listened in on some EMBA round tables on the subject. Oregon is a whole other story. There is a lot of anti-eMTB feeling there.
That sounds similar to the head of our local mountain bike organization (CBMBA). We have over 750 miles of local trails, many of which are in US designated Wilderness areas (no bikes of any kind) or have hard won easements that predated even the concept of an eMTB. Additionally he is concerned that some of the more popular trails which have been pretty much overrun with all the COVID visitors will suffer even more with additional traffic caused by eBikes. He concedes that eBikes don't do any more damage than regular bikes, but more traffic is more damage. While we have the fairly typical large amount of uninformed anti-eBike sentiment in our area, the organization is making an attempt to accommodate them within the various constraints. Unfortunately there are places and individuals take a hard no-eBike stance regardless. Rather than doing that here and basically still have people "poach" them anyway, there is an attempt to guid eBikes to places that do allow them.

My perspective is that continued growth in use is inevitable and some other option(s) will be necessary rather than limiting one kind of bike. Also many of the trails in the network are currently underutilized, to the point it's hard to even find some of them with out a gps. eBikes make accessing those lesser used trails more realistic, it will just take some work to get people to realize that could take the load off the overused ones.
 

Stihldog

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eBikes make accessing those lesser used trails more realistic, it will just take some work to get people to realize that could take the load off the overused ones.
I read most your previous attachment , especially the comments at the end, and realized the politics that will soon become involved for our areas. If we can foresee the uses of our trails we could position this sport in a favourable and useful light.

The data shown in this survey shows that quite a few of us are senior or retired. We ride eBikes or eMTB’s for a number of reasons and some of us have a bit of spare time.

I’ll speak for my self and say that I ride my eMTB almost five days a week. (Maybe more). At least once a week I maintain the trails or roads as part of my ride. (There’s always something to fix). While I’m fixing creeks or restoring trails/roads, many hikers and MTBers pass by. Almost all of them are please but more importantly they see someone who rides an EMTB fixing the trails they use.

Now some of this is self serving but they will remember who fixed the ground they walk and ride on. I can document my efforts and hopefully any self righteous user who claims this area for a single group will not have very little to stand on. There are other riders who put in similar efforts and build some amazing trails slso(mostly secret) but the best trails are up high and usually only accessible by eMTB or the hardcore MTB’er.
Anyways…
I think we’re all ambassadors to this new sport.
Now I’m gonna sing a few verses of Kum-by-ya. ?
 

Mabman

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Feb 28, 2018
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@Velociraptor I think it is hilarious that your perception of OR eBike haters is the same as the one I have about WA. I have ridden all over OR and Western WA and never heard a peep out of anybody but I mostly ride in the less populated areas and keep a low profile in general. I'll be in Bham in February and know the area well and will scope out the scene but as of a year ago the pitchforks were definitely out for Galby and the Chuckanuts according to my sources.

As far as the argument about more bikers riding the trails I would say that goes for bike lanes/paths/double track but single track not so much because it takes skill to ride a bike of any kind on good single track and I can imagine most that don't have those skill don't get to far before they get hurt or discouaged and go back to the easier stuff.

To me it's primarily the current mtb pop that are adopting eMTB's cause they are just another level of fun as we all know with more falling off the fence as it goes on. Oh, posting about how eBikes can possibly negatively affect land owners and playing that scare card doesn't do anybody any good. The facts are in, eBikes are not able to roost uphill at 20mph and tear the crap out of trails. See former paragraph
 

Forever Wild

Active member
May 21, 2020
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Arizona
Not so much in the US yet (at least in the Midwest where I live). I see and have met some folks but 90% of the riders just don't like ebikes. More parks are letting them in though which is good.
Ebike not welcome in Arizona or Alabama. Not many shops service them.
 

Mabman

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Ebike not welcome in Arizona or Alabama. Not many shops service them.

An old riding buddy from CO goes to Arizona with his RV and rides MeDowell in late fall to mid winter and they have a couple hundred miles of trails there open to eBikes and he has ridden other spots to so not sure what your info source on no welcome mat is? As far as shops go they are off the back if they don't.
 

Shinn

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Nov 8, 2020
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Decorah, IA USA
Very interesting thread. I’m in the very north eastern part of Iowa, ride in MN and WI regularly and have only seen 1 ebike on the trails. My LBS rents them and I’m confident it’s the only reason they’re still in business due to COVID, most are hybrids for the many many miles of paved trails in the area. Small city less than 10k residents with 22mi of single track, I’ve seen 60yr olds on fat tire single speeds but not a single ebike.

havent Had a single issue or raised eyebrow from the analogers, many say I’ve been wanting or I’m going to get one.

I am surprised that many of the US based online shops don’t seem to offer much for ebike specific parts or even many options for ebikes. Then I stumble into a European website and it seems like it’s all they offer.
 

Forever Wild

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May 21, 2020
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445
Arizona
An old riding buddy from CO goes to Arizona with his RV and rides MeDowell in late fall to mid winter and they have a couple hundred miles of trails there open to eBikes and he has ridden other spots to so not sure what your info source on no welcome mat is? As far as shops go they are off the back if they don't.
I ride all over Phoenix valley and Scottsdale. Ebike only allowed on certain trail systems. Not the 5 or 6 I like to ride. Also, snarky comments from others. Arizona is huge on Mtb. Just not eMTB.
 

Singletrackmind

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Sep 17, 2020
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San Diego, CA
Went for a 20k ride yesterday and fixed up a few trails/roads along the way. I probably spent 5 hours total on our mountain. Since it was a Monday the hiking and mtb-ing was less than the weekend. As hikers and bikers went by I chatted with whoever would pause or whoever needed directions.
Then I realized how many EMTB there was. It was at least 50%. I’ve never seen this many before. For those that stopped, or paused, we shared the similarities of our peddle assist chariots. We offered hints, tips and advice to each other. Even though it was sunny and kinda warm, this experience was a little different.
Sunny San Diego California is beginning to ride on the emtb bandwagon. Doing my part by riding both my emtbs 2-3 times/week. Been riding in Southern California for 30+ years and have definitely seen an uptick over last 12 months in the number of people riding emtbs. I would say its the 80/20 rule in regard to positive comments vs. asshats that feel compelled to offer their negative "insight." During weekdays seems like I see a greater percentage on emtbs vs acoustic bikes then I do on weekends. A lot of hikers I converse with are actually surprised my bike is electric assist due to the way batteries are being integrated into frames. I've even let a few riders met on the trails test drive my emtb and the smile on their face says it all! When I do get called a cheater or other choice comments, I just say "have a great day because I am!"
 

flash

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Nov 24, 2018
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Different parts of the world will have a different timeline. For me in Oz, it was about 18 months ago. Maybe two years. Now eMTB is normal. I never pull into a trail centre carpark without seeing at least a few eMTBs. Did a ride today (Thursday) and maybe 30% were eMTB. Most eMTB riders are older but not all. Lots of women on eMTBs recently as well. It's kind of like skiers and snowboarders. Different toys but we share the same hill. And every bike shop sells and supports eMTBs and eRoad as well.

I reckon, a year ago, I couldn't go for a ride without a few questions about how the bike went. Now, most of the time we don't even get a sideways glance.

Never get grief anymore. But got asked TWICE today if I had a tow rope....

Gordon

p.s. Just in case you think eMTB's are too expensive here's a cross country bike for AUD15K!!!

Trek Supercaliber Review | A Short Travel Superhero - YouTube
 

>moto<

Active member
Jan 4, 2021
116
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Sunshine Coast
Agree with Flash, loads of here in Australia have them where I ride, it's what made me get one. I have heard of some people commenting about not earning your turns but they shove they archaic opinion firmly up their ass. EMTB' s would be comprise as much as 50% in some places I ride.

The age range seems to be mostly 30+ but I think, in general, it's more an affodability thing.
 

Tonybro

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Jan 15, 2021
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@Tim1023 - interesting reading and in line with my personal experience. I am certainly working almost as hard on my eMTB as I was on my acoustic. I also fall into the category of 'disabled' (albeit limited but it is leg related) so for me it is also about continued access and capability to trails with an eMTB.

I haven't noticed anything related to the use of eMTBs where I ride (Winter Hill and Gisburn Forest). There are certainly plenty of them around at both locations. I've not had any animosity to me using/having an e-bike just a few conversations on how I find it...
 

Stihldog

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@Tim1023 ; regarding the Pilot Study. I’m surprised to see that the heart rate difference was about 94% vs a MTB. When I see MTB riders zig-zagging or pushing up a road I know they’re exerting a lot of effort. A while ago I use to get snarky remarks as I rode past but not so much now. The comments now are; “I’m getting one” or “I wish I had one or those “ or “nice bike! “.
It’s kinda hard to measure the enjoyment level or fun factor on almost anything because that can be very subjective. But the participation level in this sport has so many benefits. (ie;EMTB gang jackets, jk). Since we live at the base of this mountain and in an area with lots of hills, it just made sense to go EMTB full sus. I would not have used my regular gravel bike as much because the terrain would become a barrier and my participation would probably become less.

With concealed batteries now most trail users don’t even realize your on a peddle assist. I don’t even wear a super-hero cape anymore. Lol
 

Swissrider

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
368
384
Switzerland
What I notice in Switzerland is that analogue bikes dominate in the bike parks but on general mountain trails the vast majority of bikes are ebikes. Not surprising really, you’ve got to be pretty fit and motivated to ride an analogue bike whereas ebikes bring mountain biking to the masses.
 

Singletrack Scene

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Nov 14, 2020
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Nottingham
@Tim1023 ; regarding the Pilot Study. I’m surprised to see that the heart rate difference was about 94% vs a MTB. When I see MTB riders zig-zagging or pushing up a road I know they’re exerting a lot of effort. A while ago I use to get snarky remarks as I rode past but not so much now. The comments now are; “I’m getting one” or “I wish I had one or those “ or “nice bike! “.
It’s kinda hard to measure the enjoyment level or fun factor on almost anything because that can be very subjective. But the participation level in this sport has so many benefits. (ie;EMTB gang jackets, jk). Since we live at the base of this mountain and in an area with lots of hills, it just made sense to go EMTB full sus. I would not have used my regular gravel bike as much because the terrain would become a barrier and my participation would probably become less.

With concealed batteries now most trail users don’t even realize your on a peddle assist. I don’t even wear a super-hero cape anymore. Lol

I'll have to re-visit it. I thought it suggested emtb heart rates were 94% OF the mtb heart rate. -suggesting only a 6% difference. Saying that, if I was to put an average of 200w through the pedals, as I do on an average ride.. my heart rate, you'd of thought would be similar.
 

Stihldog

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I'll have to re-visit it. I thought it suggested emtb heart rates were 94% OF the mtb heart rate. -suggesting only a 6% difference. Saying that, if I was to put an average of 200w through the pedals, as I do on an average ride.. my heart rate, you'd of thought would be similar.
I think you said it better. Makes sense though.
 

Jeff McD

Well-known member
Aug 5, 2018
345
376
Kona, Hawaii
Electric assist MTB's are not taking off in Kona, Hawaii, but the roadies are adopting them rapidly here, that is e road bikes. We are fortunate not to have a lot of mountain bikers so there is no crowding on the trails. This is the land of aloha and everyone is friendly to E bikes on the trails. Plus I am the head trail maintenance guy so the hikers love me because I keep the trails open for them, ha ha.
 
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>moto<

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Jan 4, 2021
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Sunshine Coast
I'll have to re-visit it. I thought it suggested emtb heart rates were 94% OF the mtb heart rate. -suggesting only a 6% difference. Saying that, if I was to put an average of 200w through the pedals, as I do on an average ride.. my heart rate, you'd of thought would be similar.

I haven't read the study but a watt is a unit of power and, all things beeing equal, it the same amount of energy to generate 200watts.

I'm not sure how one can arrive at an arbitrary 94% of normal MTB heart rate though, as it would vary significantly based on the rider. 1 lap of your normal circuit could be done at 50% heart rate on an eMTB if that's how you ride. You could also ride it at max heart and be done much quicker. Some poeple use eMTB's to do similar loops with less energy, others use similar amounts of energy and just get a lot more riding in.
 

Stihldog

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I haven't read the study but a watt is a unit of power and, all things beeing equal, it the same amount of energy to generate 200watts.

I'm not sure how one can arrive at an arbitrary 94% of normal MTB heart rate though, as it would vary significantly based on the rider. 1 lap of your normal circuit could be done at 50% heart rate on an eMTB if that's how you ride. You could also ride it at max heart and be done much quicker. Some poeple use eMTB's to do similar loops with less energy, others use similar amounts of energy and just get a lot more riding in.
I don’t think the sampling was very large. Maybe 30 riders. It gives a view of random riders of various degrees of fitness, age, use etc. The author of this thesis may not have had significant resources or finances to complete a thorough study or research. I do think that the statistics gives a general conclusion once all the caveats are taken into consideration. I also think there will be more studies since governments will be pressured into some kind of action and they will create studies specific to their area. The study we’re talking about may be outdated by now.
 

Stihldog

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I hate to see this but we may have to change minds and attitudes of others towards us before we find ourselves with fewer options.
 

Singletrack Scene

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Nov 14, 2020
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Nottingham
I haven't read the study but a watt is a unit of power and, all things beeing equal, it the same amount of energy to generate 200watts.

I'm not sure how one can arrive at an arbitrary 94% of normal MTB heart rate though, as it would vary significantly based on the rider. 1 lap of your normal circuit could be done at 50% heart rate on an eMTB if that's how you ride. You could also ride it at max heart and be done much quicker. Some poeple use eMTB's to do similar loops with less energy, others use similar amounts of energy and just get a lot more riding in.

To summerise, you can make an Ebike work out as hard or as easy as you'd like.
 

Singletrack Scene

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Nov 14, 2020
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Nottingham
I don’t think the sampling was very large. Maybe 30 riders. It gives a view of random riders of various degrees of fitness, age, use etc. The author of this thesis may not have had significant resources or finances to complete a thorough study or research. I do think that the statistics gives a general conclusion once all the caveats are taken into consideration. I also think there will be more studies since governments will be pressured into some kind of action and they will create studies specific to their area. The study we’re talking about may be outdated by now.

By measuring my heart rate, it's relatively simple to calculate the effort used on an E-bike ride. If I put 200w+ through the pedals on any bike, I get a good work out.
 

>moto<

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Jan 4, 2021
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I don’t think the sampling was very large. Maybe 30 riders. It gives a view of random riders of various degrees of fitness, age, use etc. The author of this thesis may not have had significant resources or finances to complete a thorough study or research. I do think that the statistics gives a general conclusion once all the caveats are taken into consideration. I also think there will be more studies since governments will be pressured into some kind of action and they will create studies specific to their area. The study we’re talking about may be outdated by now.
Fair points, though i'm not sure what there is to 'study'. You can calculate the exact effort to ride any given bike, at least to a benchmark level. Adaptive modes make it a little more difficult as they are, errr, adaptive and don't provide a constant level of assistance. These level calculations are usually taught at high school.

You could very cheaply and easily put an ebike and non ebike on a dyno and set a course to test all of these things and more, including a complete rundown of the body's stats. Lets not bring science into this though :p

Anyway, yes, eMTB exploded.
 

Stihldog

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My “Fun-Factor-Measuring-Device” breaks every time I go for a ride.
I digress.
I’m armed with a few stats to dis-spell the myths aimed towards eMTBing. Unless you’ve never owned, or perhaps never rode an eMTB, it’s easy to draw a conclusion that may not be a true or actual depiction of this sport. Listening to concerns or opposition to this sport can be helpful.
 

bubobubo

New Member
Jan 10, 2021
3
4
Sweden
Just remember to behave yourselves, for instance:

1) Try not to go blowing past analogue bikes on the ascent with full assist. Be considerate and pass them at maybe 2-4 mph like you would on a normal bike. And signal that you're coming as normal.

2) Be mindful that you're carrying 10lbs or so more, try to go easy on the trails and not tear them up unnecessarily.

3) If you're going to de-restrict you're ebike for the love of God don't blow past regular cyclists at 30 mph, keep to the legal limits among other cyclists and on group rides especially. Reserve your de-restricted tune for that boring long fireroad where no one can see you or have a reason to complain.

4) Be considerate of everyone else using the trails. If you encounter hikers, joggers, horses etc slow down and maybe say hello like you normally would.

This eMTB thing is great, it's allowed me as a not yet old but aging rider to get out there and ride like I'm 25 again. I love being out in nature an exploring new trails. But I can also see this eMTB thing quickly being ruined by a few bad apples who think they're on an electric enduro bike and that it's a free for all.

If people can't behave, and go tearing up the countryside causing mayhem and disturbing others who want to enjoy nature, then the risk that some sort of ban will be put in place becomes high. eMTB's would then be relegated to a regular roads and a few select closed off parks and dedicated trails, and that would be a real shame.
 
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