Levo Gen 2 I just had another belt (or sprag clutch) failure, curious how common it is - POLL

[shacall2]

We've bought 4 2020 Turbo Levo Comps. 3 of the 4 Levos have experienced belt failures (or sprag clutch), all under 500mi. We absolutely love our Levos, but if we continue having belt failures, I may start looking at other bikes. I'm curious how common and how problematic this issue is.

 

[Adam29]

My 19 levo has just hit 1000miles with no belt failure but now i'm worried about it going. Dose it get replaced on warranty ?

 

[shacall2]

My 19 levo has just hit 1000miles with no belt failure but now i'm worried about it going. Dose it get replaced on warranty ?

Yes, it does get replaced under warranty. Specialized has been VERY good about warranty work, which is why it'd be hard for me to leave this bike. It's just tough when it takes 3-4 weeks to get a new motor, since that bike is down and someone in my family is without a ride.

 

[shacall2]

Look at the Levo SL, it has no belt.

I'd love to get an SL, but I like the power of the regular Levo too much

 

[Adam29]

Yes, it does get replaced under warranty. Specialized has been VERY good about warranty work, which is why it'd be hard for me to leave this bike. It's just tough when it takes 3-4 weeks to get a new motor, since that bike is down and someone in my family is without a ride.

Well that's good to know apart from the 3-4 week wait that would drive me mad being without my bike for that long. Do Specialized provide a courtesy bike when the repair takes this long?

 

[shacall2]

Well that's good to know apart from the 3-4 week wait that would drive me mad being without my bike for that long. Do Specialized provide a courtesy bike when the repair takes this long?

Unfortunately, not that I'm aware of. I'm not sure if that would be up to the LBS or Specialized, but I've never pressed the issue. My buddy bought a Levo in March and already had a belt failure as well. He's been waiting for over 3 weeks to get his motor replaced, so he's been unable to ride with us. With my first belt failure, I thought we were just unlucky. Then my other bikes had them, and now my riding buddy experienced the same. Absolutely adore the bike though.

 

[Adam29]

Unfortunately, not that I'm aware of. I'm not sure if that would be up to the LBS or Specialized, but I've never pressed the issue. My buddy bought a Levo in March and already had a belt failure as well. He's been waiting for over 3 weeks to get his motor replaced, so he's been unable to ride with us. With my first belt failure, I thought we were just unlucky. Then my other bikes had them, and now my riding buddy experienced the same. Absolutely adore the bike though.

Yes i love mine too id go as far as to say its my favourite bike i'v ever had but paying all that money for a bike that's sat in a workshop is not on in my opinion. if it happens to me i will deffo be asking for a bike to keep me riding. Hope you guys get back out asap.

 

[shacall2]

Just dropped off my bike at the LBS. He had 3 other bikes in there with belt failures. So, I know it's not uncommon (considering we've had 75% failure rate on ours alone). They told me that Specialized is using a new belt, which should resolve these belt issues. I hope he's right. I just about put in an order for the new Canyon Spectral:On....but they're out of stock until August.

 

[TheBikePilot]

Have a look at the YT Decoy 29er if you're looking for a Spesh replacement. It's the best bike I've ridden along side the Levo..

 

[Bearing Man]

We have now fitted a good number of the new thicker stronger belts and they seem to be working very well. This poll is a little unfair because 90% of clutch bearing failures are put down as belt failures because they can have very similar symptoms.
Brose only commissioned a stronger belt because of the extra power that can be put through the new 2020 motors, the earlier motors do not really eat belts. We probably fit 20 clutch bearings to every belt.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Well that's good to know apart from the 3-4 week wait that would drive me mad being without my bike for that long. Do Specialized provide a courtesy bike when the repair takes this long?

You should probably watch this. It's quite long, but very informative.

 

[Murch]

We have now fitted a good number of the new thicker stronger belts and they seem to be working very well. This poll is a little unfair because 90% of clutch bearing failures are put down as belt failures because they can have very similar symptoms.
Brose only commissioned a stronger belt because of the extra power that can be put through the new 2020 motors, the earlier motors do not really eat belts. We probably fit 20 clutch bearings to every belt.

So I am not going crazy the newer replacement motors do have more power?

 

[Bearing Man]

As I was told from the top. I can't say from personal experience because most 2020 motors are still in warranty so I don't get to see them yet?

 

[Zimmerframe]

So I am not going crazy the newer replacement motors do have more power?

The original 1.3 motors were 16 amps. These were increased with a firmware upgrade last year to 20 amps. Presumably Spesh ran a testing program with units at 20a to make sure this wasn't a problem before hand.

I think the 2.1 motors all shipped as 20 amps. If you run mission control and ride, put it in battery diagnostics whilst you're riding it will show you the amps you're pulling - so this might be different and have been increased.

 

[Bearing Man]

The original 1.3 motors were 16 amps. These were increased with a firmware upgrade last year to 20 amps. Presumably Spesh ran a testing program with units at 20a to make sure this wasn't a problem before hand.

I think the 2.1 motors all shipped as 20amps. If you run mission control and ride, put it in battery diagnostics whilst you're riding it will show you the amps you're pulling.

Exactly what I was told

 

[Adam29]

You should probably watch this. It's quite long, but very informative.

Thank you will take a look.
Very informative and glad i did my research and went with Specialized as it seems no one is offering back up as good as them. I guess i'm more bothered about not being able to ride my bike IF something goes wrong with the motor. But not to worried now i'v heard what Chris has to say. He certainly Knows the product and brand very well.

 

[shacall2]

We have now fitted a good number of the new thicker stronger belts and they seem to be working very well. This poll is a little unfair because 90% of clutch bearing failures are put down as belt failures because they can have very similar symptoms.
Brose only commissioned a stronger belt because of the extra power that can be put through the new 2020 motors, the earlier motors do not really eat belts. We probably fit 20 clutch bearings to every belt.

Thanks for the good info. However, this raises even more concerns for me now. I was told all of our bikes that have had belt failures, will all have new kevlar(?) reinforced belts. I was hopeful that this would resolve my issues. If you're now saying most issues are clutch bearing failures, then it's yet another point of failure. This doesn't instill much confidence in the reliability. Is anything being done to address the clutch bearing failures?

 

[Murch]

As I was told from the top. I can't say from personal experience because most 2020 motors are still in warranty so I don't get to see them yet?

Everyone that has a replacement motor from Jan onwards has said they feel the motor is more powerful. I thought maybe it was in our heads or our old motors were just not working as well.

 

[Bearing Man]

Thanks for the good info. However, this raises even more concerns for me now. I was told all of our bikes that have had belt failures, will all have new kevlar(?) reinforced belts. I was hopeful that this would resolve my issues. If you're now saying most issues are clutch bearing failures, then it's yet another point of failure. This doesn't instill much confidence in the reliability. Is anything being done to address the clutch bearing failures?

The belts are still carbon fibre strand belts, there is just a few more strands making them stronger. There is currently nothing being done with regards the sprag clutch bearings. We are trying to source and trial a roller clutch bearing as used in all the other ebike motors but the sizes are not favourable.

 

[shacall2]

Have a look at the YT Decoy 29er if you're looking for a Spesh replacement. It's the best bike I've ridden along side the Levo..

The Decoy was in contention before I bought these Levos. I've recently started looking at them again. I'm actually local to YT (about 20mi away), and they occasionally have demo days. I plan to demo one some time this year.

 

[shacall2]

The belts are still carbon fibre strand belts, there is just a few more strands making them stronger. There is currently nothing being done with regards the sprag clutch bearings. We are trying to source and trial a roller clutch bearing as used in all the other ebike motors but the sizes are not favourable.

Appreciate the great information. I'll admit, I've always assumed it was the belt. That's the only part that is discussed in these forums as being the point of failure. Having this new information on the sprag clutch makes a lot of sense. Hopefully it all gets sorted out. It's frustrating on our end, and I can't imagine how frustrating/difficult this is for Specialized to resolve long term.

 

[Troutwrestler]

Bearing Man, what kind of torque can the roller bearings handle? The sprags are around 250nm IIRC.

 

[Bearing Man]

Bearing Man, what kind of torque can the roller bearings handle? The sprags are around 250nm IIRC.

You are right for the sprag bearings at 250Nm, you can just imagine how many newton metres get transferred into that bearing when you hit a rock or a tree root with your pedal! I wonder why they fail?
Roller bearings are not measured in torque, they take load. I have never bothered to work out any ebike crank bearing load because I have never seen one fail due to excess load, even after pedal strikes violent enough to snap the crank!

 

[Troutwrestler]

There must be a torsional element to a one way roller bearing before it fails though?

 

[Bearing Man]

Sorry I thought you meant in relation to the crank roller bearings. I have not found a roller clutch bearing of the right size yet so I have not been able to find out what a bearing of that size would be able to cope with.
What I do know is that I have not seen a roller clutch bearing in any other motor fail yet!

 

[Troutwrestler]

Maybe it is what we need.

 

[Bearing Man]

You just can't find one thin or narrow enough

 

[Levo Laland]

Yes, it does get replaced under warranty. Specialized has been VERY good about warranty work, which is why it'd be hard for me to leave this bike. It's just tough when it takes 3-4 weeks to get a new motor, since that bike is down and someone in my family is without a ride.

Who’s your dealer? Berkshire Cycles UK keep motors in stock and swap same day!

 

[MattyB]

...It's frustrating on our end, and I can't imagine how frustrating/difficult this is for Specialized to resolve long term.

Frustrating and financially painful enough they weNt with another motor manufacturer (Mahle) for the Creo/SL. However nice the Brose may ride they are chronically unreliable in UK conditions, I don’t own one but the 4 people I know who do have had 7 or 8 replacement motors between them. I certainly don’t expect the next gen Levo to be sporting a Brose...

 

[shacall2]

Who’s your dealer? Berkshire Cycles UK keep motors in stock and swap same day!

I'm actually in the United States (California). On my first failure, the dealer had it replaced right away...because they had backup motors in stock. These past two, however, they just ran out of motors. They keep receiving them, but they've had far too many failures in the shop to keep them in stock. When I went in this time, there were 3 new motors that just arrived from Specialized and all of those were being replaced under warranty.