How much assistance is 55Nm?

[lightning]

My friend is looking at a Lapierre lightweight ebike with the Fazua Evation motor.
He's worried that the maximum 55Nm assist won't be enough, but l never use BOOST on my Kona (E8000) so he should be alright with it.
How much assistance is 55Nm. ls it enough to keep up with a regular ebike set to TRAIL?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think @flash wrote an interesting comparison lately of the fazua compared to other motors modes. Search for his posts and you should find it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

No E-Caliber love?

Have you owned other e-bikes? If so which one? Sorry I was editing while you quoted me. I worked part time at a bike shop up until last year and have owned the Cannondale Habit Neo 2 with a Bosch drive system. I bought the Habit Neo without demoing and found it to be quite large for me and...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[RustyIron]

He's worried that the maximum 55Nm assist won't be enough,
How much assistance is 55Nm.

While more is better, 55Nm is still a substantial amount of assist. I set my bike up with two profiles: SERIOUS profile, and PLAY profile. The PLAY profile is maxed out at 85Nm, and the SERIOUS profile is maxed at 56Nm.

I only kick it out to 85Nm when the trail gets steeper and more rugged than most people can even ride, or when I'm trying to smash a KOM. It's not really necessary.

The SERIOUS profile is for those rides where economy and range are paramount. On that profile, my maximum boost is set at 56Nm. Really, 56Nm is so much that I prefer not to ride there for very long. If I was to keep it at 56Nm, the battery would only last for a very modest length ride.

 

[stiv674]

I've just bought a Fazua powered gravel bike, it doesn't seem to offer anything like the assistance as my E8000. Not only is the torque lower but peak power is lower as well.

Saying that, it's perfect for what I use it for.

 

[flash]

My friend is looking at a Lapierre lightweight ebike with the Fazua Evation motor.
He's worried that the maximum 55Nm assist won't be enough, but l never use BOOST on my Kona (E8000) so he should be alright with it.
How much assistance is 55Nm. ls it enough to keep up with a regular ebike set to TRAIL?

No. It's somewhere between eco and trail for the e8000 when set to Rocket on the Fazua. You can play with the settings on the Fazua, either through the PC connection (which is actually easy) or the newer phone app (*if* all your firmware is up to date). But you will not get trail power out of the Fazua. I reckon it feels more like 45nM than 55. Steep stuff is still possible (although the nose does want to lift due to the short chainstay and seat tube angle). You'll be in a gear of two lower. It rips on the flats and downhill though 'cause it's so easy to pedal over the limiter.

Even maxed out a Fazua bike never feels like a full power motor. It's a different ride altogether. It feels more like a stiff tail wind helping you along rather than being pushed mechanically like the e8000. It's a much more subtle feel. You do know when you turn it off though.

The Fazua bike is quieter than pretty much anything on the market and feels great over the limiter. Part of that is the bike weight. Part the motor tune. The 4-6 kg really does make a difference in ride feel.

Get a second battery.

Gordon

 

[lightning]

Thank you for the advice, l will pass it on.

 

[Cory S]

My wife’s bike has 50Nm. I’ve gone everywhere and climbed some long steep stuff with it just fine. Sure I do gear way down and pedal like I’m supposed to, but it goes up anything pretty much. My bike has 70Nm and it would climb up a straight cliff in 1st or 2nd gear if traction wasn’t limited.

BTW. I am 210lbs……….

55Nm is plenty IMO. Especially on a lighter bike!! Now the ultra light EMTB’s with the 35Nm setups, might be a little tough in stressful situations.

 

[NoPro]

I had a e-zesty as a test bike for a day and was was actually impressed with the power it gave, coming from a levo I was expecting way less. But you realy want to testride it. As far as I know it comes with 2 batteries but I rather have the weight in the frame than on my back.

 

[RickBullotta]

My Rise is 60Nm (detuned EP8) and it's more than enough for the trails I ride. But I do think you need to factor in rider weight as well. I'm about 170 lbs. Physics still applies, so a larger or smaller rider would have a different experience at the same power level.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Are

My Rise is 60Nm (detuned EP8) and it's more than enough for the trails I ride. But I do think you need to factor in rider weight as well. I'm about 170 lbs. Physics still applies, so a larger or smaller rider would have a different experience at the same power level.

Are you able to crank it up to full power if you wanted to go for a quick ride up somewhere short & steep or is it factory set so you can't change it?

 

[flash]

I had a e-zesty as a test bike for a day and was was actually impressed with the power it gave, coming from a levo I was expecting way less. But you realy want to testride it. As far as I know it comes with 2 batteries but I rather have the weight in the frame than on my back.

Might depend on region. My eZesty came with one battery but I already had two from another bike. At 97kg with gear, I get about 20-25km off a battery on my local tracks. My local get me back to the car every 12km. On an all day ride I have a pack anyway so carry a second. Personally I don't want it on the bike as it'll change the feel dramatically.

Gordon

 

[fenwick458]

I have an Orbea Gain that only has 40Nm, it feels like its enough to be honest but the bike only weighs 13kg

 

[RickBullotta]

Are

Are you able to crank it up to full power if you wanted to go for a quick ride up somewhere short & steep or is it factory set so you can't change it?

Max is 60Nm. There are ways to destrict it but I have no need for that. Like any EP8, you can set the various assist levels from within the eTube app, but up to that 60Nm limit.

 

[Gary]

How much assistance is 55Nm. ls it enough to keep up with a regular ebike set to TRAIL?

if you're fit enough. Yes.
Trail mode with the E8000 is 70NM.

 

[Gyre]

How much assistance is 55Nm.

Assuming the bike is in "turbo" mode and giving 100% of its assistance, 55Nm at 80 RPM is 460 watts. Mellow climbing effort from a rider is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 200-225watts so that's a pretty substantial boost.

ls it enough to keep up with a regular ebike set to TRAIL?

You can tune the profile of the E8000 on an app, right? That should make it easier to match your friend.

 

[Gary]

Assuming the bike is in "turbo" mode and giving 100% of its assistance, 55Nm at 80 RPM is 460 watts.

That's not how it works. (your calculation)
if it was my E8000 would be outputting 1kw ontop of my own effort on my commute to work. (it isn't)

 

[BushLevo]

Power = Torque (in Nm) x Rotational speed (in Rad/sec)
= 55 x (80/60 x (2 x pi))
= 460.77 watts

 

[Gary]

Thanks for showing us your working

But that's still not how a motor's Nm rating actually translates to assisted power output

 

[BushLevo]

Thanks for showing us your working

But that's still not how a motor's Nm rating actually translates to assisted power output

That's correct. The motor power output at any time bears little relation to it's rated max. torque. It is a function of the current assistance profile and rider input power. The maximum theoretical power will be determined by maximum torque limit at a given r.p.m. My Turbo Levo does not give a true output power indication, only a calculated power draw from the battery at any time. This isn't true motor output power as it ignores motor efficiency (which is never 100%) which varies with motor speed. The Levo must have a torque sensor to measure rider input power, so it can calculate what assistance to provide, but appears not to measure motor output torque directly.

 

[Gary]

You could have just agreed with post #18

 

[Gyre]

That's not how it works. (your calculation)
if it was my E8000 would be outputting 1kw ontop of my own effort on my commute to work. (it isn't)

Hi Gary. Yes, I'm definitely making some simplifying assumptions for the sake of discussion. On a US Bosch CX4 in Turbo, power tapers off somewhere around 80-85 rpm in order to keep the max power below 750w. Likewise, I'm assuming that the Zesty can be coaxed to putting out all 55Nm of torque around 80rpm and that it wouldn't be capped below 460w.

I figure 460w is plausible for a Zesty and that can be given meaningful comparisons to a regular rider's power figures.

 

[flash]

Maximum output from the Fazua motor is 300 watts when set to extended. Normally the max is 250 watts. You can set this in the Fazua software.

You will not get 460 watts from a Fazua motor.

Gordon

 

[Gary]

Hi Gary. Yes, I'm definitely making some simplifying assumptions for the sake of discussion. On a US Bosch CX4 in Turbo, power tapers off somewhere around 80-85 rpm in order to keep the max power below 750w. Likewise, I'm assuming that the Zesty can be coaxed to putting out all 55Nm of torque around 80rpm and that it wouldn't be capped below 460w.

You haven't simplified your assumptions or calculations. They were just plain incorrect.

 

[Gyre]

Maximum output from the Fazua motor is 300 watts when set to extended. Normally the max is 250 watts. You can set this in the Fazua software.

You will not get 460 watts from a Fazua motor.

Gordon

I stand corrected, thank you.

Edit: Interesting. If you're capped at 250/300 watts and the motor legitimately puts out 55Nm of torque, you're only going to be able to access that maximum torque value for perhaps a fraction of a second while starting off from a start or stall. At pedaling speeds you might be getting only ~30Nm from the motor at best.

 

[lightning]

Are you your friend?

l've already got an ebike. l am trying to persuade my friend to get one so we can go out together.
He keeps on showing interest, l've found a couple of bikes for him, a 2020 Lapierre, a 2021 Lapierre, and a NOS 2020 Kona the same as mine.
But he won't pull the trigger, first he was worried he wouldn't use his road bike any more, then he decided he wanted a "lightweight" ebike but was worried that 55Nm wasn't enough (hence this thread)
then he said he has "too many bikes" (so l said, sell the ones you don't use)
And now he's saying £5,000 for a bike is a lot, despite the fact that he's a millionaire
He invests EVERYTHING
l said the ebike will only cost you 2 1/2% of what you just sold one of your properties for, and you are allowed to treat yourself.
But he's still not ordering one.

 

[Gary]

As someone who loves his Roadbike. Let your wealthy "friend" know that no Ebike can replace the exquisite handling and raw speed of a nice lightweight roadbike. infact it's an absolute joy to slip back into lycra and get back out on your roadbike after trudging about at half the speed in the mank on a heavy unresponsive Emtb

what roadbike does he have if he thinks £5k is a lot? That'll only stretch to a mid range roadbike nowadays for a lot of brands

 

[lightning]

l've told him it won't ever replace his road bike.
He won't use the ebike when he goes out on his own.

 

[Gary]

Why are you bothering?

 

[Gyre]

l've already got an ebike. l am trying to persuade my friend to get one so we can go out together.
He keeps on showing interest, l've found a couple of bikes for him, a 2020 Lapierre, a 2021 Lapierre, and a NOS 2020 Kona the same as mine.
But he won't pull the trigger, first he was worried he wouldn't use his road bike any more, then he decided he wanted a "lightweight" ebike but was worried that 55Nm wasn't enough (hence this thread)

An Orbea Rise with the EP8 RS might be a way to split the difference.

then he said he has "too many bikes" (so l said, sell the ones you don't use)
And now he's saying £5,000 for a bike is a lot, despite the fact that he's a millionaire
He invests EVERYTHING
l said the ebike will only cost you 2 1/2% of what you just sold one of your properties for, and you are allowed to treat yourself.
But he's still not ordering one.

This doesn't sound like the kind of guy who's going to ride with you more than once or twice.