Hope Pro 5 hubs.
- Thread starter Jurassic
- Start date
2WheelsNot4
E*POWAH Master
Just a little update to this thread.
I've just got the new rear wheel in, and concerning the 54/108 points of engagement.
It appears to be confined to the freehub only. So if you have bought a standard pro5 rear wheel, just replacing the freehub thats 108 POE specific, turns it standard to Ebike.
On the freehub seal. it gives the info specific to its use.So on the one I have, its got 'HG/XDR freehub. 54 POE', and on the hub body itself it says; '108 maximum points of engagement. six pawl' Which just really tells you its a one fits all hub body, with a use specific freehub.
Other than that its quite a nice looking hub. Haven't weighed it but it seems fairly light.
Tis all.
I've just got the new rear wheel in, and concerning the 54/108 points of engagement.
It appears to be confined to the freehub only. So if you have bought a standard pro5 rear wheel, just replacing the freehub thats 108 POE specific, turns it standard to Ebike.
On the freehub seal. it gives the info specific to its use.So on the one I have, its got 'HG/XDR freehub. 54 POE', and on the hub body itself it says; '108 maximum points of engagement. six pawl' Which just really tells you its a one fits all hub body, with a use specific freehub.
Other than that its quite a nice looking hub. Haven't weighed it but it seems fairly light.
Tis all.
Last edited:
2WheelsNot4
E*POWAH Master
Oh I've no idea and thats much too technical for me. Does it make a nice clicky sound is about the limit of my understanding
what !!!!!! no fucking way !!!! I'm falling off my chair as I type...... you, using Hope....... fuck me....
No because only 3 pawls engage at any time
Ah yes, so 360 / 108 * 3?
If you are looking for the amount of slack before take up of drive surely that is defined by the number of teeth on the ratchet? It's a 54 tooth ratchet still so 360/54= 6.6°? ....not that it makes much difference on an emtb since the sprag/one way bearing in the motor will mostly define it.
Amber Valley Guy
Active member
I have the Hope Fortus 30 wheelset on my Moterra, with the ebike specific 54t rear hub. They're a little on the heavy side with the 29" x 30int rear coming in a 1.36kg but I did opt for the steel HG drive (so I can update to Shimano Linkglide at some point) and the front at 1.18kg. Both wheels are 6 bolt (you can't get factory centre-lock ebike MTB rear Pro 5 hubs...as although some places offer it, the internal dust seals aren't the same as the centre-lock road hub, afaik). Really happy with the wheelset and the rear hub makes a great noise when coasting downhill ... especially at speed. Think I paid an extra tenner (might have been a bit more) for the Rockshox torque caps fitted to the front hub. Saying that though, compared to the awful wheels that the Cannondale came with (MT400 hubs and 25int rims) anything would be step up.
but its 108 points of engagement... so each point is 3.3 degrees........
are the pawls offset in some way the decreased the POE ?
Redders473
Active member
FWIW i ran a normal hope pro 5 on my levo racing this years ebike nationals and had zero dramas didn't slip once or make any noises at all.
they are unevenly spaced so that when 3 engage, 3 are held open.
Here we go. Got my Google foo working
www.fanatikbike.com
Hope Pro 5 Hub Review
If you’ve been mountain biking for long, you’ve heard of Hope Tech components. This legendary brand out of Barnoldswick, England, has been designing and manufacturing their storied hubs and brakes in-house since the year before I was born, back in 1989. That was a long time ago, but long...
www.fanatikbike.com
but not all at the same time! It is a system designed to add strength since the contact between freehub and ratchet is shared by the 6 pawls. So instead of the contact being made by the same 3 pawls each time the wear is shared between 2 sets of 3 pawls. In terms of the ratchet, the greater the number of teeth the smaller the contact area is between pawl and ratchet tooth. Very quick ( degrees of rotation) engagement is largely restricted to disciplines like road biking that requires less strength. For EMTB strength is the main croterea due to the torque put through that connection...and I said before the "freehub" ( sprag/one way bearing) in the motor largely dictates how much free crank movement you experience.
R3Z3N
Member
^You are correct. To those that are confused: it is 54 teeth with half the pawls engaged, and the other 3 pawls offset halfway between engaged and disengaged (offset), giving a 54tooth driver 108 points of engagement, at again 3.3 deg of free play as a system.
R3Z3N
Member
^Same. WAO Convergence Fuse/Triad 29er, Hope Pro 5 (non e-mtb), Sapim CX Rays
Points of engagement is an expression of strength of contact between the freehub and hub (ie between the pawls and ratchet) and distribution of wear. Regardless of the number of pawls that simultaneously engage the ratchet they can only do so in steps of one ratchet tooth and the free play between each tooth on a 54t ratchet is 6.6 degrees.
So with a 54t ratchet and 1 pawl there are 54 possible positions of engagement but a lot of pressure and wear on just 1 pawl. Increase the number of pawls to 3 and there are still 54 possible engagement points since they all engage at the same time.....but now the strength of engagement is 3 times greater. Have 2 sets 3 pawls offset from each other and there are now 108 possible engagement points meaning each set of 3 pawls experiences halve the wear. Strength of the engagement is however the same.
Reducing the amount of free play between any of the possible engagement combinations can only be decreased by increasing the number of ratchet teeth.
Personally I think the DT Swiss ratchet system is a better design than pawls.
So with a 54t ratchet and 1 pawl there are 54 possible positions of engagement but a lot of pressure and wear on just 1 pawl. Increase the number of pawls to 3 and there are still 54 possible engagement points since they all engage at the same time.....but now the strength of engagement is 3 times greater. Have 2 sets 3 pawls offset from each other and there are now 108 possible engagement points meaning each set of 3 pawls experiences halve the wear. Strength of the engagement is however the same.
Reducing the amount of free play between any of the possible engagement combinations can only be decreased by increasing the number of ratchet teeth.
Personally I think the DT Swiss ratchet system is a better design than pawls.
The POE with the 54 ratchet hub and two sets of 3 pawls is 108. I counted.
Degree of engagement is 3.3 degrees with 3 pawls engaged at any one time.
I think the ebike version has 6 pawls, all engaging at the same time and therefor POE is 54 and degree of engagement is 6.6 degrees.
I chose the none ebike hub for my Fuel EXe as the torque is not as much as a full fat.
Degree of engagement is 3.3 degrees with 3 pawls engaged at any one time.
I think the ebike version has 6 pawls, all engaging at the same time and therefor POE is 54 and degree of engagement is 6.6 degrees.
I chose the none ebike hub for my Fuel EXe as the torque is not as much as a full fat.
Dave,
yes POE doubles with 2 offset sets of 3 pawls but amount of free play between engagement remains the same. The 54 POE is stronger with 6 pawls all engaged on the ratchet ring, the 108 has the same strength as any 3 pawl system but the 2 sets of pawls share the wear and tear. Not sure which is the best choice for EMTB. I would think the 6 pawls acting at the same time is the right choice. Two sets of 3 pawls probably better where ultimate strength is not needed..e.g MTB.....as wear is less and therefore longer lasting.
R3Z3N
Member
^Yup Dave, both versions have 6 pawls, only difference is one set of 3 is not offset by 3.3 deg from the other set (does not matter where in the rotation that is. It is the same with Industry 9 Hydras....they just have more offsets....
Amber Valley Guy
Active member
I'm sure I read somewhere that the ebike hub has 3 pawls only (I might be totally wrong and read some incorrect information).
R3Z3N
Member
^Yes you are wrong. Both have 6 pawls but the E-bike version does not have the second set offset; meaning all six engage at the same time sharing the load. Also there is a weight penalty for more durable metal for the torque application.
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