holy grail of battery range with a Shimano e8000 steps motor attained. AKA: how to get 10+ miles and 2200+ ft out of one battery bar

[Gary]

And I'm not talking about riding with the motor off at all for once.

Ok. Firstly a little background.
I don't have range anxiety and never have. I just like to know how things work and happen to b such a nerd I have pretty much the opposite trait to gullability when it comes to new information if not backed up by solid science and experience. This means I like to figure stuff out for myself rather than blindly follow advice. (I also happen to hate rules but that's a whole other trait)

So... when watching embn on youtube I generally need to take a deep breath and just roll my eyes at some of the utter bollocks they so often put across. Last night I watched an episode and a read out comment from a viewer that actually sounded feasable got me thinking...

 

[Gary]

Here's the show. skip to 16:20 for the comment:

or since e bikers are all so lazy here's the quote

 

[Gary]

Today I rode with a couple of mates on their regular bikes but as I'd been riding for at least 4 hours every day this week didn't fancy the punishment of pedalling my capra so took my eSommet. and stayed in eco almost the entire ride (I used trail for one short sprint section on one descent and one short punchy section of climb)

we rode 10.11 miles and 2320ft ascent in zero deg tmp or less (0deg at the bottom)

and I only used one battery bar

how?

By riding the entire time (at a cadence of 50rpm

#Science

 

[dirt huffer]

LOL!

But how much do you weigh?

 

[Gary]

Just under 210lb just now. 220+ in riding kit

 

[RocketMagnet]

Probably because the battery bar is just a guide and not a definitive measure, neither is it real world linear. You would probably find it suddenly recalculating remaining charge and the remaining "bars" use up more quickly.

Ultimately the absolute minimum energy is the same as lifting your weight + bike weight vertically 2320 feet not even counting the distance and friction, wind resistance etc.

As the remaining charge is in discrete Blocks and not %age it may not delete a block until its completely used so technically you could be right on the cusp of using another bar (40%) and 20-40% for 10 miles in eco... and 2320 feet doesn't sound totally unrealistic does it?

Another thing is it's assist so maybe some quirk in the assistance level mode and your doing most of the work and the assistance is really low... you do say your cadence was really low also at 50rpm so maybe you not putting effort in means it doesn't either?

The other alternative is it's got a problem and totally miss reporting the charge, I'd run it down low and do a full recharge to get it to recalibrate as a precaution. If this is the issue then at a guess it was possibly the low temps messing with the calibration/calculation.

 

[Janluke]

That's impressive and should improve when the temperature increases. I reckon I get 10% more range in the summer

I have three Shimano batteries and ever one behaves in the same way. First bar lasts the longest,the next three a little less and the last one goes quicker again.

 

[Lee67]

Yes Gary ive gound same tbh if i do a steady group ride( only me on an emtb) ... a steady cadence gives me silly range/height ... riding in eco constant 1st bar usually goes at 10 miles similar height gain... riding slower cadence ( simply because everyone else is riding slower) i can eek that to 15 miles and beyond!

 

[Gary]

Probably because the battery bar is just a guide and not a definitive measure, neither is it real world linear...

Yeah. I realise all that. But I normally spin a cadence of around 100rpm and had read/been told faster cadences were better for preserving battery and wasn't getting anywhere near 2000ft with just one bar. It's interesting.
Nothing scientific at all about my ride today. simply using ironic humour as usual.

I should have also probably said. the ride was on very familair trails/climbs and an area I ride a lot.. it surprised me that after 5 miles and about an hours riding time that I hadn't begun eating into the third bar. nevernind double that and still having 4 bars showing.

and 2320 feet doesn't sound totally unrealistic does it?

for how i normally ride (ie. not sticking to 50rpm) Yes. it's really really unrealistic to expect anywhere near that. That's kinda my point.

 

[Gary]

The other alternative is it's got a problem and totally miss reporting the charge, I'd run it down low and do a full recharge to get it to recalibrate as a precaution. If this is the issue then at a guess it was possibly the low temps messing with the calibration/calculation.

It doesn't have any problem or issue whatsoever. I'm not even sure why you'd think it did.

 

[Tamas]

Interesting, I'll try it.

 

[Gary]

Another thing is it's assist so maybe some quirk in the assistance level mode and your doing most of the work and the assistance is really low... you do say your cadence was really low also at 50rpm so maybe you not putting effort in means it doesn't either?

Did you actually watch the video I posted and read the quote i mentioned?

 

[Dee Scee]

huh. i haven’t watched the video, but riding at a lower cadence used less battery? yeah, that’s the opposite of what i would expect. i think of a slow cadence as almost leaning on the motor... this is strange!

 

[Kernow]

Interesting theory , I’ve found myself monitoring the power bar since you mentioned it a while ago ,
Iam not sure if it’s cadence or just the fact that riding with normal bikes and going steady is like riding for economy , I’ve also got a theory about resting the battery , if I ride solid it seems to go faster than if Iam stopping and chatting as normal bikes often do at top of climbs etc
Riding with normal bikes I do seem to get lots more battery life , when there’s a group of us on ebikes were all going much faster than pedal bikes can and picking climbs normal bikes don’t like .
It’s not cold yet here but I’ve Really noticed the range drop off , I’ve been thinking about slipping one of those heat packs inside the battery cover to see if it helps .

 

[R120]

Yeah I have noticed the battery drop off this week, done a couple of morning rides and 20 miles prob the limit without having to worry about running out

 

[Gary]

Iam not sure if it’s cadence or just the fact that riding with normal bikes and going steady is like riding for economy

Oh.. definitely a bit of both. higher torque will also cause the motor to output more assistance and there's no way I'd have had the will power to ride so conservatively if not with regular bikers for company.

I have been using a neoprene battery cover. No idea if it actually helps in the temps I've been riding in this week or not. can't hurt though, eh?

 

[Gary]

huh. i haven’t watched the video, but riding at a lower cadence used less battery? yeah, that’s the opposite of what i would expect. i think of a slow cadence as almost leaning on the motor... this is strange!

Watch it before commenting. it's only about 20-30 sec of it that's relevant.

[edited the second post up ^^ there ^^ for the lazy]

 

[Tamas]

I have been using a neoprene battery cover. No idea if it actually helps in the temps I've been riding in this week or not. can't hurt though, eh?

I’m also using neoprene cover for two years and it definitely helps. Without it I had ~30% less range @0 deg Celsius. Especially the last two bars dropped unbelievably quickly.

 

[MattyB]

I definitely think there is something in this if you are looking to absolutely max out your range. There is no doubt that when riding my Dad's Bosch motored bike in EMTB mode assistance seems linked far more to cadence than the torque the rider is putting down through the pedals. Changing down a gear and spinning faster whilst giving (roughly) the same effort definitely results in a bump in motor assistance.

The example given (where the Shimano powertrain limits the torque ouputted by the motor in Eco mode) is slightly different, but I can see it will reduce battery drain for ultimate range. The downside is obviously you have to accept travelling slower or putting in more leg power to achieve the same speeds. There's no such thing as free energy!

 

[Gary]

Bosch

start your own thread if you want to discuss other motors.
they all behave differently.

 

[ggx]

My wife and I went for a 65 Km ( and 1K positive ascendig ) ride with a bunch off XC type strong regular bikers. My wife drained the juicy faster than myself to keep the pace with the pack (and enjoyed every Km of it ! ). Just a bit of stress returnig home managing the last bar of the ejuice. I´ve ended with 2 bar remainig . Next time I must remembre not to leave batery keys at home to be able to swap them if necessary .
So less weight (rider and bike), but lower pedal cadence and an averge higher assistance mode -> less autonomy

 

[mark.ai]

Nice one @Gary for picking up on that and doing a test Certainly sounds feasible, will have to give it a go as well sometime. Could be a good excuse for some strength training on the bike rather than just spinning all the time.

 

[Janluke]

The slightly frustrating thing with the Shimano/etube app is not being able to adjust the eco setting. It feels a little generous to me

 

[Gary]

I think eco is about right for me as is TBH but yes it should be adjustable too.

 

[softtailcruiser]

Guys, as a newbie, when you talk about ‘bars’, do you mean Mars or Snickers?

 

[Kangr]

Guys, as a newbie, when you talk about ‘bars’, do you mean Mars or Snickers?

Diary milk

 

[Benson]

It’s all kinda meaningless until someone does 100m on one battery ?

 

[Nifty 56]

@Gary, I saw the EMBN video before this thread and thought it was worth trying it but I'm laid up at the moment after a shoulder cuff op and waiting for the return of a new SC8000 display (like ur profile pic) for my Vitus E-Sommet.

August last year, I rode with another mate on a Levo along Leeds/Liverpool canal to Aintree in Eco all the way and back. I got 14 miles before going onto 4 bars. Not much climbing at 377ft but avg 13.9mph. We just took it steady although mine is unrestricted and I did give it a blast once or twice.

In total the whole ride was 40 miles/785ft and 2 bars remaining but had only been on 2 bars for 1 mile or so.

Another road ride I tried on the same bike but with lighter/faster rolling 2.25 XC tyres, I covered 43 miles/970ft in Eco mode from a full charge to totally empty. I was spinning 100rpm+ where I could most of the ride in top gear and my avg was 20.2mph.

Good fun but hard work on your arms with the wind blast and being upright the whole time

 

[Kangr]

It’s all kinda meaningless until someone does 100m on one battery ?

Miles or Meters?

 

[Janluke]

It’s all kinda meaningless until someone does 100m on one battery ?

Chalk and cheese I know but in the summer I can get 100km out of an 8000 battery on m e hybrid with the lower torque e6000 motor