Hi all, how to decide which E mtb in au

[Softsand]

Hi all, E mtb is a fantastic site.
Great reading
I'm 56 y old , 6 foot tall , 73 kg and a former enduro / motorcross rider. I hired 3 e mtbs last week for a day each. A 2019 BMC AMP trailfox, a Specialised 2019 levo comp and a 2020 Giant Reign E+ 2. Did 30 to 50 kms on each. What a blast. Fire trails, switch back narrow trails through narrow trails , long uphills/downhills and rocky ledges. Loved the feeling of going as fast uphill ( almost ) as downhill. Annoyingly the Giant left me stranded on the hill with zero battery after 2.5 hours of full turbo flat out up hills ( i did watch it drain and thought how much further can i go ?)
I'm addicted.
Now the hard part.
Got Aus $8000 to $9500 to spend on a 2020 model only ( not going for 2019). There are bargains out there.
Done lots of research. Lots of European/ USA bikes not readily avail ( ie YT and Fezzeri look great) and with no service back up. By the looks of it, most brands will have some sort of warranty issue on their bikes in the first year or two and I need a local bike shop where I can drop it in and get it back quickly. That rules out my fave of Rocky Mountain Altitude ( main dealer is in another state) and the BMC.
As my local helpful e mtb dealer ( sells Specialised/ Giant/ Norco/ Merida/BMC ) said, "I've got all their motors and parts. Next day service return, including motor replacement " ( and I believe him based on mate's purchases)
Current options in Australia are
2020 Specialised levo comp or expert ( need the extra battery life of the expert but not the forks upgrade).
2020 Specialised Kenevo .Given I like to go downhill fast, looks like a better option than levo, especially with the 2.1 motor.
2020 Giant Reign E+ 0
2020 Norco VLT C1
2020 Merida 160 9000 series
Trek Rail 9.8

Process of elimination first
I m less interested in ;
- Specialised with their widespresd Bose motor problems ( even if they do get fixed under warranty)
- Bosch Gen 4 motors due to their noise probs ( good to have silence in the forest ) although emtb mode sounds good and it appears ultra reliable. This possibly rules out Trek Rail 9.8 although a good deal may sway me

After eliminating the above two issues of Brose / Bosch motors, I'm left with the reliable Yamaha CX4, and Shimano 8000 motors.
That leaves
2020 Giant Reign E+ 0
2020 Norco VLT C1
2020 Merida 160 9000 series
( although I still like the Specialised Kenevo / Trek Trail 9.8)
Extra battery for Giant/ Norco/Merida looks good too

They all appear to be great bikes and equivalent prices if various specials are chased up.
Cant test ride these other upper end models over the type of tracks I want to use them on.
Those bike shops that sell them do not allow hires / mountain track use as they do not have demos ( Adelaides a smallish emtb town)

Is the above reasoning sound ?

At the end of the day any top end 2020 bike at a good price would be good ( although prob not a Specialised due to motor issues )

What would the emtb forum buy out of these avail bikes ?

Thanks heaps

I‘m 57, 6‘ 1” and ex MX rider too.

Own a 2020 Trance E+ Pro 1 but had a Reign E+ Pro 2 for a couple of weeks and a 2020 Levo Comp for a weekend. Have rode a couple of Treks but only for minutes not hours.

Range extender available for the Reign and if you like downhills its a good thing. I struggled to get the front up easily for logs though. Trance more nimble but you don’t get the cool magnetic connector cover !

IMHO you get better value for money with a Giant. Little things like dual bolts on the seatpost retainer, but even the tyres.

The Levo app is better though. I didn’t really think the bike was superior though even if it was quite a bit more expensive (the model I had).

Yamaha Motor is really good too (although mine did get replaced...) but I’d be making sure whatever you get is well supported by your LBS. This is more important than anything if something goes wrong. I like exotic stuff but ended up going for the Toyota of the eMTB world.

 

[Shane(NZ)]

My brother had an e9000 and it was a great bike. I still think they are the best value for money with good customer support in Australia.
Their only let down is no real gravity option. While still very capable, the difference is night and day. This was our solution

View attachment 27803

Looks like a great solution to me.?
Bike looks mean with the boxxers
Can you adjust the ride height through the top 2 clamps?
What are boxxers worth?

 

[Shane(NZ)]

Thank you everyone.
All great advice.
In order , for a 2020 model
1st.
I have to buy local. Need a good local dealer who can replace motors etc quickly under warranty. Rules out Vitus/ Rocky Mountain etc even though they have standard parts etc. That means it s either Norco/ Merida/ Giant/ Trek/ Specialised ( now back on the list as I'm not so worried about their motor reliability thanks to everyone) .Cannondale do not seem high on anybody's list.
2nd
How the bike fits me. BMC/ Giant/ Specy all felt good over 3 hours each of hard riding although that depended on the type of trail/ climb / rocks / switchbacks etc etc. I'm betting they will all feel ok in a 3 hour test ride at various segments over varied terrain
3rd
What riding I do ? Like everyone, a bit of everything , preferably at speed rather than tricky trials type stuff
4th
Price. Which high end bike is on big discount. At the moment , Giant Trance E + 0 pro Au $3000 discounted from $11500 to $8500 looks the go if no other company discounts their bike. Specialised are also discounting levo bikes at mome ( not Kenevo) . I suspect Norco and Merida will follow soon .
5th
Battery. and motor combo. Arguably this should be higher up the list. Need long battery time - 640 upwards ( I ran the Giant flat miles from the test shop) and 70 Nm torque up wards ( makes a difference for us older blokes going on long uphills )
6th
paying extra big dollars for lots of carbon not worth it
7th
I'll be happy with any of them that meet the above

Thanks again

We got my wife's Trance E+0 in July, they had a really good deal on one weekend at torpedo 7
$7000 nz
Thats a 2019 model is your price for 2020?
That makes more sense

 

[CjP]

Thanks Christian. You hit the nail on the head with point number 4. Once you buy something you love, assuming it does not bankrupt you, the price is not thought about again. Worked out over 2 years of a bikes life ( thats another topic . How long do these bikes last ? ) , an extra $2000 to go up a model or two is about $18 per week . No ducati owner ever thought, "gee wish I had of bought a Suzuki"

Hahaha funny you say that, I have a mate who loves Suzuki’s, said Dukes are nice but shit to ride.
As for how long bikes last well depends I guess how hard you ride them and more importantly how you maintain them. People forget ebikes are still in their infancy, there’s a lot to learn about them still so personally I don’t expect great reliability for many years to come. My 2019 Kenevo has had a few new hubs until they upgraded it to a dt Swiss unit. I’ve had one motor replaced as it has a bit of overrun, I do put the bike through a of shit though. Love my gravity trails, I ride it as hard as I can, I ride any weather and washed it every ride. The new one I haven’t washed it once to see if that makes a difference.
I’ve had all my warranty issues solved before the next weekend so it meant I only missed out on my midweek ride. One of many good things about Specialized.
My new one hasn’t had an issue as of yet.
I love my ebikes, they’re just so much fun.

Looks like a great solution to me.?
Bike looks mean with the boxxers
Can you adjust the ride height through the top 2 clamps?
What are boxxers worth?

Yeah it helped it though the rough stuff. Not an ultimate solution but really good if you want a little more out of your Merida. Never got to play with the rear shock but I’m sure there could be a little to be had there.
You can drop down the dual crowns but there is a minimum distance required to clear the wheel. I think you can drop the travel down with a rebuild but then there wouldn’t be a point in using those forks(from a 2020 Kenevo), they’re 180 as they are.
I think price for those forks are around $1500 for the base model and just over $2g for the ultimates.
Defiantly worth it if you want a little more DH compliance.

 

[ScuzzII]

We got my wife's Trance E+0 in July, they had a really good deal on one weekend at torpedo 7
$7000 nz
Thats a 2019 model is your price for 2020?
That makes more sense

Yes 2020 model

 

[ScuzzII]

And the winner is----------

Either a 2020 Giant E + 0 Reign, Trek 9, Norco VLT C1 , Spec Keneva expert , Merida 160 10K.
A homer Simpson moment.
They are all brilliant bikes. All the postings and reviews reveal each has a minor issue and I'd be happy with any. My friendly - large local E mtb sells them all.
From my wife's perspective it's a no brainer ,the $2500 discount puts the Giant in front !!
Except I see this am The Merida listed price came down by $1500 over night.

 

[CjP]

Kenevo Expert is winner if your a gravity whore. I think it’s the closest to a moto feel as it’s chunky and look boss with those dual crowns. Plus I have two of them and my brother has one. I may be a little biased.
If your more a trail rider and like to play and pop stick with the other ones.
Ideally try the bikes before you buy them but that’s always hard.
In all seriousness though you’ve chosen a good list of bikes so you can’t really go wrong. Each bike will have its issues so as long as your shop supports you you should have no problem. Maybe ask the shop what type of warranty/repair time on each brand is as that may help sway your decision. Also what is the likely hood of you upgrading parts later on?
Also try avoid involving the missus as they always seem to make poor decisions when it comes to bikes. They always try using logic like bills and kids etc. Bloody fun police.

 

[Pdoz]

Nah, my super wife was easy

me " hi, I just got back from a test ride, can I buy it? "
her " you work hard , of course you can"

It's all in the preparation - decades of boring her senseless about each of my motorbike purchases

 

[Softsand]

Nah, my super wife was easy

me " hi, I just got back from a test ride, can I buy it? "
her " you work hard , of course you can"

It's all in the preparation - decades of boring her senseless about each of my motorbike purchases

Mine was cool too. Thing is, I let her ride mine and... now she has one too (Liv Intrigue which I keep telling her is better than mine as it is the absolute top of the line but mine isn’t ?). She went from never ridden off road to pushing me on where we should go next. Bizarre in a good way !

 

[CjP]

Where do these women grow?

 

[Pdoz]

Where do these women grow?

Tempted to post a pic of sprogette 1 in answer to that....just turned 15 and she's pissed that the thredbo interschools were cancelled....

 

[CjP]

Tempted to post a pic of sprogette 1 in answer to that....just turned 15 and she's pissed that the thredbo interschools were cancelled....

Hahaha good for her. I have a mate that I used to ride with, she’s 25 and obsessed with riding. She argues with her boyfriend about her riding too much.

 

[outerlimits]

My Levo has done 7500km with no motor trouble, or battery trouble. just sayin. Ride all bikes over the 25km power cut off threshold and then decide.
Sure you can derestrict the power cutout speed limit, but it’s a dick move.

 

[ScuzzII]

Kenevo Expert is winner if your a gravity whore. I think it’s the closest to a moto feel as it’s chunky and look boss with those dual crowns. Plus I have two of them and my brother has one. I may be a little biased.
If your more a trail rider and like to play and pop stick with the other ones.
Ideally try the bikes before you buy them but that’s always hard.
In all seriousness though you’ve chosen a good list of bikes so you can’t really go wrong. Each bike will have its issues so as long as your shop supports you you should have no problem. Maybe ask the shop what type of warranty/repair time on each brand is as that may help sway your decision. Also what is the likely hood of you upgrading parts later on?
Also try avoid involving the missus as they always seem to make poor decisions when it comes to bikes. They always try using logic like bills and kids etc. Bloody fun police.

I had the ideal moment two weeks ago after my wife and I both hired e mtbs for the day. She said " go for it". At that stage I'd only hired each f the BMC 2019 and the Spec 2019 for a day . Being a "bit obsessional", I said I wanted to try a few more.
Well, since then, you guys have been a mountain of very helpful info and then the COVID closed down all test rides.
I'll have to live voyeuristically through the forums until I get to test 2020 Trek Rail 9.8/Kenevo Expert/Merida 160 /Norco VLT C1.
Since my wifes said go for it, after talking to you guys and listening to everyone's upgrades , I've also gone up a price bracket or two ( and watched the prices drop by up to $2500 in some cases).

 

[CjP]

I had the ideal moment two weeks ago after my wife and I both hired e mtbs for the day. She said " go for it". At that stage I'd only hired each f the BMC 2019 and the Spec 2019 for a day . Being a "bit obsessional", I said I wanted to try a few more.
Well, since then, you guys have been a mountain of very helpful info and then the COVID closed down all test rides.
I'll have to live voyeuristically through the forums until I get to test 2020 Trek Rail 9.8/Kenevo Expert/Merida 160 /Norco VLT C1.
Since my wifes said go for it, after talking to you guys and listening to everyone's upgrades , I've also gone up a price bracket or two ( and watched the prices drop by up to $2500 in some cases).

I reckon there will be some killer deals coming very soon so you may get to have your cake and eat it too. You chose a good time to buy.
I’ll try suss out my local for pricing to see what they can offer.

 

[Pdoz]

You're going to be happy with whatever you get, and your shop us going to be desperate to get rid off whatever is on the floor before they get shut down - great time to be buying IF you have the financial security to do so

 

[Softsand]

I had the ideal moment two weeks ago after my wife and I both hired e mtbs for the day. She said " go for it". At that stage I'd only hired each f the BMC 2019 and the Spec 2019 for a day . Being a "bit obsessional", I said I wanted to try a few more.
Well, since then, you guys have been a mountain of very helpful info and then the COVID closed down all test rides.
I'll have to live voyeuristically through the forums until I get to test 2020 Trek Rail 9.8/Kenevo Expert/Merida 160 /Norco VLT C1.
Since my wifes said go for it, after talking to you guys and listening to everyone's upgrades , I've also gone up a price bracket or two ( and watched the prices drop by up to $2500 in some cases).

Going up a grade or two (I probably went up 3 since I first started looking) certainly gets you nicer components that make the bike feel and look better. Worth it when you are fettling in the shed too. Just a satisfyingly feeling ?

 

[ScuzzII]

Thanks guys . Hopefully the manufacturers start the discount so the bike shops survive . If it s anything like MX bikes , I suspect the dealer margins are tight . We need good dealers making a livin

 

[tvandall]

Scuzzll

#1 in my books you need LBS, LBS, LBS

In your words " my local helpful e mtb dealer ( sells Specialised/ Giant/ Norco/ Merida/BMC ) said, "I've got all their motors and parts. Next day service return, including motor replacement " ( and I believe him based on mate's purchases)
Current options in Australia are
2020 Specialised levo comp ...

Levo Comp is best Value and if I am not mistaken 2020 model has same 700 whr battery as Carbon Expert. I own won and love it. don't over think this. You can't go wrong with this bike if you have a great local bike shop (LBS). There is a reason it is the best selling brand.

I come from a similar place motorcross, harleys, sportbikes, carbon road bikes, one wheels, even aerobatic planes. So I am a thrill junkie and the Levo Comp delivers ...

Good Luck and have a blast on what ever you purchase though ...

 

[CjP]

Scuzzll

#1 in my books you need LBS, LBS, LBS

In your words " my local helpful e mtb dealer ( sells Specialised/ Giant/ Norco/ Merida/BMC ) said, "I've got all their motors and parts. Next day service return, including motor replacement " ( and I believe him based on mate's purchases)
Current options in Australia are
2020 Specialised levo comp ...

Levo Comp is best Value and if I am not mistaken 2020 model has same 700 whr battery as Carbon Expert. I own won and love it. don't over think this. You can't go wrong with this bike if you have a great local bike shop (LBS). There is a reason it is the best selling brand.

I come from a similar place motorcross, harleys, sportbikes, carbon road bikes, one wheels, even aerobatic planes. So I am a thrill junkie and the Levo Comp delivers ...

Good Luck and have a blast on what ever you purchase though ...

But have you ridden a Kenevo?

 

[Flatslide]

Good local bike shop support is important with e-bikes for sure. My Rocky just ate its 3rd speed sensor in 3700km the day before the level 4 lockdown lol. No chance to replace it for a month or more. After spending some time with my multimeter I was able to determine it's a 5V reed switch, so making a replacement once the warranty is out won't be an issue for me as genuine RM parts here appear to be 4x what they sell for anywhere else in the world...

 

[tvandall]

Does Australia have mts for the downhill oriented Kenevo? I thought it was fairly flat say compared to Alps, or Rockies but I haven't ever ridden down under. Maybe there is lots of great terrain. Regardless your local dealer will likely give you a kenevo test ride if you assure him your buying a bike. Both are great. Kenevo maybe appeals to taller riders more as well as its downhill affinity???

Tom

 

[CjP]

Does Australia have mts for the downhill oriented Kenevo? I thought it was fairly flat say compared to Alps, or Rockies but I haven't ever ridden down under. Maybe there is lots of great terrain. Regardless your local dealer will likely give you a kenevo test ride if you assure him your buying a bike. Both are great. Kenevo maybe appeals to taller riders more as well as its downhill affinity???

Tom

Haha we have a few hills... I rode a small 1600m descent just the other day.
The Kenevo is an all mountain, any trail weapon! It’ll take just about anything you can throw at it and smile back at you.

 

[tvandall]

Sounds like a ton of fun!

 

[mas]

Thanks guys . Hopefully the manufacturers start the discount so the bike shops survive . If it s anything like MX bikes , I suspect the dealer margins are tight . We need good dealers making a livin

I know you've been looking at more expensive options but i've been watching prices in OZ and the Giant Reign E+ 2 Pro is currently on sale for $5700.

 

[ScuzzII]

Thanks Newbie.
Giant appear to have significant/ big manufacturer backed discounts in Aus.
Speesh on some models not all.
None on the others

Being in lockdown makes it difficult to test the remaining bikes of an Expert, Merida 160 , Trek Rail and a Norco Reign AND Most importantly sort frame sizes.
I'm more than happy to roll the dice on any of these bikes so long as I sort the frame geometry ( dont want my knees close to handlebars as I saw on one review). At 183 cm , I have long arms and legs in proportion to the rest of the body.

Also figuring out a possible hire purchase arrangement.
There are companies in Aus ( Studio 19) that allow you to Hire Purchase and then return after 6 months ( yep, after 6 months walk it in and exchange for another bike or the 2021 model !) having paid a weekly rate.
Factoring in the following
- emtbs look worthless on resale after 2 years here in Aus
-Bike shop assures me you are allowed normal wear and tear and all warranties are covered.
He did say " Dont smash the frame" and when I tried to qualify further, he said, "it s up to the leasing company whether they take it back after the 6 months- talk to them".
-A $11400 (Aus) Spesh Kenevo Expert can be taken for $124 per week lease ( Studio 19 is the lease company the bike shop works with)
From the site
"Then if you wish to purchase
At 1 month pay no more than $11388
At 12 months pay no more than $9449
At 18 months pay no more than $7829
At 36 months pay no more than $589
While your contract is a rental contract, you can make us an offer to purchase at any time. (purchases are subject to approval and conditions apply). The prices referred to above are given as a guide. Please contact us for more details.

• Return any time after 6 months
• Low monthly repayments
• Apply to buy at any time
• Protection plan available
• No on-going account keeping fees or charges"

Does it sound too good to be true ??
How much is the protection plan ?
What does it cover ?
I have to find out how/ if I can exit the contract after 6 months as the long term costs over a year would not work. I suspect exit costs will be prohibitive too.
Like any hire purchase arrangement, I suspect much better for me to use my cash ( given it s not a tax deduction)

Has anybody hire purchased their e mtb and returned it after 6 months ??

 

[Pdoz]

Scuzzll, just looking at those numbers you could pay for that reign outright for what it'd cost you to rent a kenevo for a year ! It's a big gamble, especially if you invest a bit in optimising the bike for yourself.

Get something sensible as your first emtb, with any luck you'll still love it in 3 years and it'll owe you nothing.

 

[ScuzzII]

[QUO TE="Pdoz, post: 153957, member: 2885"]Scuzzll, just looking at those numbers you could pay for that reign outright for what it'd cost you to rent a kenevo for a year ! It's a big gamble, especially if you invest a bit in optimising the bike for yourself.

Get something sensible as your first emtb, with any luck you'll still love it in 3 years and it'll owe you nothing.[/QUOTE]

Thanks , thats what I thought.
those numbers seemed crazy

 

[ScuzzII]

Thanks everyone. All the advice helped. Bought a Giant Reign E 0 Pro yesterday. Two days of riding many isolated trails . Charges uphill and downhill fast. Easy to flick around single trails through forests. Corners really well. Rock strewn paths no problems. Climbs well. Love the electronic gear shifts and dropper post. Bit heavy on jumps/ wheelies, but who cares.
Best advice after two weeks of reading hundreds of reviews, pouring over hundreds of specs ( 427 chain length or 420 - who cares if your not a pro) testing 4 bikes with different motors/ suspension / wheel size is to buy a bike at a good local dealer. Hope there is a factory discount and make sure you buy the most expensive current model bike you can. You get what you pay for. All bikes in Aust are good. Go and do it ( ps, my state still allows mtbing in national parks during COVID19)
.

 

[Pdoz]

Congrats.

NB DO NOT update the software / connect to ride control at the moment - giant stuffed up their latest update and you lise the auto mode