Help me please. Cannondale and Bosch suck bigtime

[Chairman]

Hi. I have mulleted my Moterra 1 and now I cant get Cannondale or Bosch to allow the wheel circumference to be changed to match the actual. Cannondale are quoting such things as the bike was designed for 29 only even though I pointed out to them their small size frame with the same geo apart from lower bb height comes in 27.5 so therefore the software must be available. They came back with the geo is different because the mullet changes the geo to which I pointed out its the same geometry and frame now as it is with their SE model and if its that important to them i will go 27.5 in the front as well. But no Cannondale and Bosch not interested in what their customers needs are. So suggestions please. I will probably need to illegally? Derestrict but not confident the onboard computer wont just shut me down. Hence the call for help

 

[Sander23]

I believe that any bosch dealer can change that

 

[All4Fun]

I think you only need the software of the small 27,5 frame, at the Cannondale shop there are several versions software to choose from.
Motor and computer are the same, software is the difference.

 

[Mteam]

As per sander23, any Bosch dealer can change the wheel size configuration,it doesn't need to be Cannondale specific.

 

[Chairman]

Well i am not sure that is correct. Software is factory set and model dependant. The medium comes with the 29 software and the small with 27.5. I am sure my bike shop would do it if they could access the software. If someone could show or explain exactly how to do it I would much appreciate it but at this stage my local shop are as frustrated as I am and they deal in a lot of bikes and even have haibike mullet bosch hire bikes but they cant access whats needed to reconfigure my moterra to accept a smaller wheel and its starting to piss me off. But i may have given that away in the header

 

[MH80]

I guess your shop isn't that competent. Find a different shop and ask. Any shop who sells Bosch has the software to do this.

You can even do it yourself on some Bosch computers/displays.

 

[All4Fun]

When you got a new motor, they need to put the right software in too, and that motor doesn't see what wheel size your running, that's telling the software him.
My wife's R&M with Bosch CX4 got upgraded too, at the shop they had a list of versions to choose from, with or without MTB-mode, 85Nm....

 

[Chairman]

So can you please explain what your wife got done exactly. The 85 nm upgrade is optional on all motors i get that. I dont think you understand that the pre-installed software is specific to each manufacturer who have there own tunes enabled. At least thats my understanding but it seems that all of the shops i have been speaking to are either lying to me or less knowledgeable than you. I would love you to be correct. Can you explain what your wifes bike was and did she get it configured for a different wheelsize. My kiox computer is not configured to enable a 27.5. It is mapped to the specific part number of my motor and i dont know how to change that. I am open to suggestions but knocking the local bike shops is not helpful. They all have the same answer

 

[Chairman]

I appreciate you guys trying to help but i am looking for specifics here. Has anyone actually had any success with getting their gen 2 bosch software changed after mulleting
Cheers

 

[Zimmerframe]

Has anyone actually had any success with getting their gen 2 bosch software changed after mulleting

Don't you mean Bosch Gen4 ?

And yes, there are lots of people on here who've had their settings adjusted by Bosch dealers. For speed adjustment and such things and battery/light configuration.

Some manufacturers have their own versions of the software, like Trek, where they ran none standard assist modes, but most use the generic software.

 

[Mteam]

Well i am not sure that is correct. Software is factory set and model dependant. The medium comes with the 29 software and the small with 27.5. I am sure my bike shop would do it if they could access the software. If someone could show or explain exactly how to do it I would much appreciate it but at this stage my local shop are as frustrated as I am and they deal in a lot of bikes and even have haibike mullet bosch hire bikes but they cant access whats needed to reconfigure my moterra to accept a smaller wheel and its starting to piss me off. But i may have given that away in the header

Do you have the gen4 Bosch cx motor (usually identified by the large chainring) or the gen 2 (tiny chainring)?


If gen 4 then The wheel size is just a setting in the software that any bike shop with the bosch software can adjust, it's a slider that the operator drags to set the desired wheel circumference.

I have no idea for the gen 2.

 

[Chairman]

Apologies there folks and yes i do mean gen 4. OK I think we may be getting somewhere. I was of the belief that Bosch worked with all manufactures to produce software for their models but maybe this is not correct. I will discuss this further with my mechanics today and report back. I have heard about this slider but not seen it myself although my understanding was that it did not offer the range required to allow my bike to be configured for 27.5. Thanks

 

[All4Fun]

You can finetune your wheel circumference with the Bosch display yourself, but that's within a certain range for 29 or 27.5, there's no overlap as far as i know.
Btw. my wife's R&M has the Bosch Intuvia.
I did that after the update to 85Nm and adding the MTB-mode, tried to get a bit more topspeed, but that didn't work, only the speedometer was changing, the motor did cut off at the same real speed, checked it by Strava.

Maybe the slider in the shop software does affect de real speed.

And for what i understood by the LBS, with the upgrade for her bike the complete software was changed, not just a part.
There's only a software upgrade done, no change in wheel size.

 

[Chairman]

Oh well it appears Cannondale/Bosch are unwilling to come to the party. I would fit a 3rd party derestricking unit on if I had the faith that it wouldnt crap out on me at an inapropriate time and or place so unfortunately its time to severe my what had until now been a very good relationship with Cannondale and Bosch and move to a more customer friendly environment. Specialized it looks like you have found another customer. Who would've thunk it

Thanks all.

 

[jerry]

But no Cannondale and Bosch not interested in what their customers needs are.

The customer needs are, apparently, a mullet. And yet you blame the manufacturers for buying a 29"?

 

[Chairman]

Thanks for your input Jerry. Very helpful
I was between sizes small/medium. Would have preferred a small which come with the 27.5 wheelsize but none available. Now are you suggesting that the customer should not have the option to change any of the parts that come on a bike. Headset wheels forks shock handlebars or anything else for that matter. In this instance I tried a mullet configuration on a bike and found it improved said bike noticeably for my riding so why should I not have the option to legally ride it that way. I have been purchasing mountain bikes for 30 years and I have modified every single one of them to some degree as I am sure most mountain bikers do

 

[Mteam]

I think you need to find a better shop - its a 5 minute job to adjust the wheel size in the bosch dealer software.

see this thread (33) Mullet on a Bosch gen4 - EMTB Forums - edit I see you've commented on that thread.

It does seem that some shops either dont know they can adjust wheelsize or simply refuse to, but the option to do it is there , as a few people have had it done.

Just ask around at different bosch dealers until you find one willing to help.

 

[Chairman]

Its nothing to do with the shop. What is required is for the manufacturer,in this case Cannondale, to give authority to Bosch to supply the software to the registered Bosch dealership to allow them to make the adjustment. In this case Cannondale are not interested in even attempting to do that quoting that Bosch wont allow it. In the thread link you sent it would appear that Scott have managed to convince Bosch to allow for this to happen. My lbs who has what he describes as a good relationship with Bosch has not been able to convince them to supply the software. There are no such issues with Shimano or Brose or Bafang for that matter. Not sure about Yamaha

 

[MountainBoy]

Its nothing to do with the shop. What is required is for the manufacturer,in this case Cannondale, to give authority to Bosch to supply the software to the registered Bosch dealership to allow them to make the adjustment. In this case Cannondale are not interested in even attempting to do that quoting that Bosch wont allow it. In the thread link you sent it would appear that Scott have managed to convince Bosch to allow for this to happen. My lbs who has what he describes as a good relationship with Bosch has not been able to convince them to supply the software. There are no such issues with Shimano or Brose or Bafang for that matter. Not sure about Yamaha

Interesting. Does this mean if I can get my LBS to change my Scott 29'er to being recognized as a 27.5" that I can go 5% faster without assist crapping out? Assuming I leave the 29" wheels on there?

Also, someone said I could change my speedometer calibration from the Bosch display myself. Is that true? All I have is the Purion.

To the OP: It sucks that Cannondale is being so inflexible!

 

[Mteam]

Its nothing to do with the shop. What is required is for the manufacturer,in this case Cannondale, to give authority to Bosch to supply the software to the registered Bosch dealership to allow them to make the adjustment. In this case Cannondale are not interested in even attempting to do that quoting that Bosch wont allow it. In the thread link you sent it would appear that Scott have managed to convince Bosch to allow for this to happen. My lbs who has what he describes as a good relationship with Bosch has not been able to convince them to supply the software. There are no such issues with Shimano or Brose or Bafang for that matter. Not sure about Yamaha

I dont think you're understanding - but this is my last input to try and help. I think there are 2 issues here, firstly the ability to actually change the wheelsize and secondly the affect of changing the wheelsize on the warranty - and these two issues are being conflated.

The vast majority of the bosch gen 4 motors use the generic bosch firmware - some of them (trek being one) use a custom firmware , but cannondale is not one of them who use the custom firmware. The same firmware is used on all bosch gen 4 bikes, all bikes with vastly different configurations - wheelsize being one variable.

with this generic firmware, using the bosch dealer software you can just program it with a new wheelsize, the shop who is telling you that they need to get permission from bosch and/or cannondale is not telling the truth (or is unaware) , it can be changed by the dealer. There is no new software required.

If the shop are also telling you that they think changing the wheelsize would invalidate the warranty , and therefore they do not wish to invalidate the warranty so will not change the wheelsize without cannondale confirming it is ok - well this is their call, and they have the right to do so , it clearly wont actually cause any warranty issues, but dealers are dealers.

So Go find a bosch dealer who is not a cannondale dealer and get them (pay them) to change the wheelsize for you - but you may have issues with the warranty should you ever need to claim on it.

 

[Chairman]

It is Cannondale not the lbs making the warranty statement

 

[Growmac]

I wonder if there's also legal liability worries? If a shop changes the wheel size to 27.5", then you put the 29" wheel back in and have, in effect, somewhat derestricted the bike, who would be liable for the now non road legal bike?

 

[jerry]

the customer should not have the option to change any of the parts that come on a bike. I have been purchasing mountain bikes for 30 years and I have modified every single one of them to some degree as I am sure most mountain bikers do

You cannot make the manufacturer responsable for the consequences of your choices, if these were not designed to be accomodated by them.

 

[Chairman]

What are you on about. Said manufacturer is the one who has designed this.Their small frame has 27.5 wheels. May I use this software please. There SE model has triple clamp forks and the same Head angle I prefer and it uses the same frame. Where the hell is the problem. I dont even care sbout warranty and I would pay for the service I just want my bike to work. But as I have stated I will just move my allegiance to specialized who don't have these sort of issues. Its a shame to be left with such a bad taste in the mouth however as generally i am a positive

 

[Doomanic]

This thread has so much misinformation in it it makes my head hurt.

Any Bosch dealer can change the wheelsize on any brand of Bosch motored bike. They may not want to, which is a totally different issue, or not fully understand what they are able to do with the dealer portal. In my experience, after 4 years of owning Bosch motored bikes there are very few of the former but a surprising number of the latter.

Having said that, just buy a Volspeed and be done with it.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Writes note of condolence to Specialized....

 

[carlton]

This should be the screen the dealer sees when they plug your bike into their software. In the middle you'll see the wheel size adjustment.

 

[Mikerb]

@Mteam has it right. I took my Whyte E180 to a local "bike cafe" where the owner is a registered Bosch engineer. The "cafe" does not sell any bikes let a lone a Whyte. I wanted the firmware upgrade when Bosch increased from 80 to 85nm. He explained that each time he accesses the Bosch dealer software he is charged £25 but said that is all he would charge. He shared view of the screens as he went through them and asked what I wanted in respect of a few options....and obviously said yes to the 85nm upgrade. My local LBS has also said anything to do with the Bosch motor/battery/Purion, they can deal with despite them not supplying the bike. The issue here is that the warranty on Bosch kit on a Bosch equipped bike is with Bosch...not the bike brand. In the case of a warranty claim it is usually the LBS you bought the bike from that interfaces with Bosch, but it could be any registered Bosch dealer.
@Mteam is also right that a bike brand is perfectly entitled ( its their perogative) to declare any warranty ( which for most brands is restricted to the frame and very little else) null and void if you change the bike from its original design. The reason for this being that the bike is tested as per its original spec and cannot be warranteed against failure if he bike is changed to a spec they have not tested.
Specialized warranty terms are slightly different since they warranty frame, wheels, motor, battery, controller leaving only the brakes, drivetrain and suspension units to be warranteed by SRAM/Shimano as appropriate.

 

[Mteam]

He explained that each time he accesses the Bosch dealer software he is charged £25

That's bullshit from the dealer too, I don't know why bike dealers feel the need to lie about so much stuff, he should just say it'll cost you 25 quid because I'm not a charity and I need to pay the mortgage

 

[Mikerb]

That's bullshit from the dealer too, I don't know why bike dealers feel the need to lie about so much stuff

Maybe dealerships get access without charge........as I explained this guy just runs a "bike cafe" but also does some repairs.........and is a qualified Bosch engineer.