Hardwiring Lights to E8000

[R120]

Useful video for those who want to install lights:

 

[smokey_jo]

Do we know what volts and amps are safe to wire up to the battery?

 

[R120]

I don't, but a lot of manufactures sell specific kits for the E8000, e.g:

SL S Shimano (International)

Shimano also sell a specific cabling kit:

Shimano STePS SM-DUE01 Adapter for Light

The specs for this are:

Description of Shimano STePS SM-DUE01 Adapter for Light
Adapter to power the bike light directly from the Shimano STePS battery. Includes front and rear light cable.

• Wattage: max. 1.000 mAh (front+rear)
• Voltage: 6V (+/- 0,5V)
• Cable length: 1600 mm

 

[eFat]

Shimano also sell a specific cabling kit:
Shimano STePS SM-DUE01 Adapter for Light

This is not for the E8000 motor.

But 6V and 1A are certainly the same for the E8000. These values are in line with the other manufacturers.

If you want more you have to connect directly on the battery.

 

[smokey_jo]

Cheers guys, just need to check the current draw on my magicshine light. Would be pretty handy as the batteries aren't holding charge any more

 

[lars667]

Hi. I have a bike with the E8000 system, and just recently bought a Busch + Müller IQ2 Eyc E headlight, which should be compatible with all 6-42V e-bike systems. I have connected the cables just like the guide shows, but I am not able to select lights on in the menu of the Shimano display. It just beeps when I try to select the "Light" menu. Do I have to ask the manufacturer to open this option or something? Which is really a PITA. Thanks!

 

[Gary]

I am not able to select lights on in the menu of the Shimano display. It just beeps when I try to select the "Light" menu. Do I have to ask the manufacturer to open this option or something? Which is really a PITA. Thanks!

You just need to enable the lights option using the options on the shimano steps phone app.
I found it kinda weird Shimano disable the option on the head unit from new TBH.
also weird there's not a load of easily plug in light head unit options avaialable at a reasonable price.

 

[lars667]

You just need to enable the lights option using the options on the shimano steps phone app.
I found it kinda weird Shimano disable the option on the head unit from new TBH.
also weird there's not a load of easily plug in light head unit options avaialable at a reasonable price.

Thanks, I actually thought of that after posting. Will check this evening if I can make it work!

 

[lars667]

It worked!

 

[Momo]

Hello,

I have a question as i am trying to figure out this lights thing... on the shimano E8000
Is there any reason i should not connect a light like US $6.37 30% OFF|USB Bicycle light XM L T6 2000LM 5V USB LED Bike Bicycle Light 3 Modes With 2*Orings-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group directly to the motor light terminals? Or any other light with a cree led ?

Excuse me if my question seems... obvious, but i want to make sure i dont do something stupid.

As far as i can find out a single cree led can not draw more then 1 amp at 6 volts, or can it ?!

Thank you very much

 

[Indigo]

The Cree XM-L LEDs maximum drive current is 3A @ 3.35V with a light output of 1040 lm.
The spec sheet says maximum voltage 3.5V and maximum reverse voltage 5V. If it was supplied 3.5V it would briefly draw 6A (3.5 x 6 = 21W) and output 2000 lm before it over heats and dies.

That USB powered light must have a resistor and/or diodes to reduce voltage to below 3.5V, more likely below 3.35V

In order to reduce current to 1A (maximum for shimano E8000) the voltage of LED needs to be reduced to ~2.97V. The light output of T6 @ 1A is 388 lm.

At 3V the current draw would be 1.1A with light output 420 lm.
2 x Cree XM-L LED's wired in series: 2 x 3V = 6V x 1.1A = 6.6W and output 840 lm of light.
1.1A is 10% above the maximum for shimano E8000 but it would probably be okay.

Wouldn't it be easier to buy one ready made with the correct connector plug for shimano E8000.

 

[Momo]

@Indigo thank you for the explanation

Yes it would be easier to buy the ready made correct connector plug for Shimano E8000 but i can not find it All i found is the SM-DUE01 which someone said is not for this motor.

Can post a link for the correct connector plug please?
Thank you .

 

[Indigo]

Below image is from E8000 manual, page 39:
There appears to be no special connector -- it just uses screw terminals to clamp the wires.
#2 below shows the striped (+) wire connects to the left terminal and the (-) wire to right.

 

[Momo]

Ty , I read the manual problem is all the good lights made especially for ebikes are very expensive, not to mention unavailable in my country.
That is why i was trying to figure out if i need to do anything special in order to install one of those cheap lights (like a step down or anything).
Because if the motor terminals deliver 1Amp @ 6V regulated power, then it should not by any problem to connect any light rated for 6-48Volts right? it will draw what the motor can provide and that's it ?!

Man.. complicated

 

[Indigo]

If you want high brightness, get a USB rechargeable bike light. The built in battery will provide the extra current needed for maximum light output. Configure the light output of your Shimano E8000 motor to be always on so that it charges the bike light battery and keeps it topped up. Use the button on bike light to switch on/off and to change modes.

To reduce voltage from 6V (output of motor) to 5V (USB) use a standard silicon rectifier (SSR) diode, eg. 1N400x (where x=1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7), these are rated 1A continuous; are very common and cost < $1. Silicon diodes have a forward voltage drop of ~1V and are a cheap and easy way to reduce voltage by 1V. They are a small black cylinder with a silver or white bar marking the negative (-) end. Do not use a signal diode as they can only handle a small current.

Alternatively (low brightness option), you could run two 3V lights wired in series (2 x 3V = 6V) eg. 2 front lights or front + rear. Would be less expensive having no built in battery; just make sure total wattage is no more than 6W and that you create a circuit with them wired in series.

 

[Jaygam]

Here is what i done, cost around £5 works well....
Shimano E8000 hardwired lights - EMTB Forums

 

[Momo]

Aha thats very good information. According to what you wrote on the other thread, if one installs a 6V light that draws more power then 1 amp to turn on, then it should simply not work. Is there a risk to the engine circuits by doing so ? I would think not but better make sure
The reason i am asking this is that i have 3 lights in the range 5-6v and 1000-2500 lumens. I dont now how much wattage they have and i was thinking of just trying them....

 

[Jaygam]

Aha thats very good information. According to what you wrote on the other thread, if one installs a 6V light that draws more power then 1 amp to turn on, then it should simply not work. Is there a risk to the engine circuits by doing so ? I would think not but better make sure
The reason i am asking this is that i have 3 lights in the range 5-6v and 1000-2500 lumens. I dont now how much wattage they have and i was thinking of just trying them....

It's tricky because I don't know if it limits to 1Amp or that's all the components inside are built to deliver, on one hand it could work but limit the through-put, on the other it could cut the supply or damage the components by drawing too much and overheat the circuts!
I used an in line usb current meter to measure my light draw but did not try it in line on the bike to see what it could pull.
The light I use varies the brightness by flickering the output, so on the brightest setting it's stright through to the led, it does work on that setting but I dont use it as when I measured it off the bike via usb it was pulling over 2A on the T6 chip.

 

[Momo]

Just a quick update. I have meanwhile connected both front and rear lights to the E8000 motor and all seems to work well. I used 2 cheap alliexpress lights , measuring the power with a watt meter so they dont pull more then 1 Amp.

But since then i found some information on lezyne website - they make ebike lights amongst others.

I attached the information from that site, according to which the E8000 is supplying 2A at 6V. could they be wrong or ?!

 

[svartbjorn]

Regarding 1A/2A power on E8000 light source:
------------------------------------------------------------------
I searched around and found several places that the DU-E8000 delivers up to 2A @6V on the light terminals. The E6000 on the other hand can deliver max 1A.

- On my.shimano-eu.com I found a document that specifies: "Maximum current supply front and rear light total = 2A" for the E8000 and 1A for the E6010/E6001.

- www.lupinenorthamerica.com sells "Sl S Light for Shimano Steps E8000" (item #3200), which is a 12W (that means 2A@6V) light. The specifications emphasizes:
"SL E-Bike lighting suitable for Shimano Steps E8000 drives. The light is not suitable for other models, because the lighting port does not supply sufficiently high current." So this confirms that E8000 can deliver 2A, while other systems only can deliver 1A.

Reducing the 6V:
-----------------------
I am going to use the light terminals to supply 5V to my cell phone on a bike mount holder such that I can have it on all the time with maps and navigation. Standard USB voltage is 5V. There was a suggestion above to use a Schottky diode to reduce the 6V to a lower voltage, but that is not a good idea. A Schottky diode is a type of diode that is designed to have a very low forward voltage drop. Rather a power diode could be used. However, a diode is very non-linear with the voltage drop increasing with the current. So I rather designed a linear regulator that delivers 1.5A/5V. You have to use a linear regulator with what is called a "low dropout voltage", which is the minimum difference required between the input and output voltage to allow it to operate. One very good regulator of this type is Linear Technology LT1963, with only 0.3V dropout voltage. A linear regulator has to burn the power caused by the voltage difference. E.g. 6V in and 5V out means 1V dropout. At 1.5A that means 1.5A*1V=1.5W has to be burned. Hence a small heat sink is required. A switching step-down regulator doesn't burn power this way, but no switching regulator can operate with only 1V between input and output. Usually min 2V is required. So in the E8000 case, only a linear regulator will work if you want to generate 5V.

 

[AdrianJW]

I have been looking at hardwiring lights to my E8000 and this has been a useful thread. It appears that you don't need a Shimano specific cable provided there are screw connectors on the lights.
One thought occurs to me; if you can't/don't route the cable through the frame, how do you take the cable under the removable cover on the motor?
Anyone have a solution for this?

 

[svartbjorn]

I don't know if the design is similar on all bikes, but on mine there are cables coming out of the frame just behind the motor. On front of the motor there is a large flap door fastened with just two screws. I used a stiff wire from the motor compartment to find the way through to these openings, and then used this wire to pull through the electrical wires. In this way you can at least get the wires out of the motor compartment. If you do not want to do it this way, I would suggest you make a notch at the edge of the cover to allow the wire to come out. You may want to use silicone to make it water tight. Do not drill a hole since the cover then will be stuck to the wire.

Be aware of one VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE if you enable the light terminal (must be enabled using the Shimano E-Tube app): when light is enabled, the E8000 controller will calculate a backup power to maintain the operation of the light for a minimum of 40 minutes. This can be programmed to be more (only a Shimano dealer has the tools to do that), but not less. The disaster is what I experienced: I had still 2 bars left on the battery gauge when I started on an uphill. Then the motor suddenly was cut off becase the controller figured out it had to reserve the remaining battery for the lights! I have checked this with Shimano, who confirms this is what you may experience. So my conclusion is that the light feature is completely useless. I am now instead using an external power bank to power my cell phone for navigation (see my previous post).

 

[AdrianJW]

I don't know if the design is similar on all bikes, but on mine there are cables coming out of the frame just behind the motor. On front of the motor there is a large flap door fastened with just two screws. I used a stiff wire from the motor compartment to find the way through to these openings, and then used this wire to pull through the electrical wires. In this way you can at least get the wires out of the motor compartment. If you do not want to do it this way, I would suggest you make a notch at the edge of the cover to allow the wire to come out. You may want to use silicone to make it water tight. Do not drill a hole since the cover then will be stuck to the wire.

Be aware of one VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE if you enable the light terminal (must be enabled using the Shimano E-Tube app): when light is enabled, the E8000 controller will calculate a backup power to maintain the operation of the light for a minimum of 40 minutes. This can be programmed to be more (only a Shimano dealer has the tools to do that), but not less. The disaster is what I experienced: I had still 2 bars left on the battery gauge when I started on an uphill. Then the motor suddenly was cut off becase the controller figured out it had to reserve the remaining battery for the lights! I have checked this with Shimano, who confirms this is what you may experience. So my conclusion is that the light feature is completely useless. I am now instead using an external power bank to power my cell phone for navigation (see my previous post).

Thanks; that’s really useful. Don’t really want to put a notch in the motor cover so I’ll explore the internal route. I hadn’t realised that lights were such a significant current draw, might have to rethink that one or invest in a spare battery.
I currently use rechargeable lights but they don’t give me the range/reliability I want.

 

[Momo]

Meanwhile i have bought the Lezyne MacroDrive 1000 and installed it on my bike Never had such a powerfull light on a bike. Also connected some rear lights. I am like a Christmas tree now on the road

 

[AdrianJW]

Meanwhile i have bought the Lezyne MacroDrive 1000 and installed it on my bike Never had such a powerfull light on a bike. Also connected some rear lights. I am like a Christmas tree now on the road

Did you hardwire it? Which rear light did you go for?

 

[svartbjorn]

Thanks; that’s really useful. Don’t really want to put a notch in the motor cover so I’ll explore the internal route. I hadn’t realised that lights were such a significant current draw, might have to rethink that one or invest in a spare battery.
I currently use rechargeable lights but they don’t give me the range/reliability I want.

The really bad thing is that this becomes an issue as soon as you enable light with the E-Tube app - even if you are not drawing any current at all! And even if you have turned light off in the settings on the controller (using the buttons). The controller calculates worse case scenario, which is 2A (max rating) - not matter what the actual current flow is. I was not drawing any current at all when I experienced the issue.

 

[AdrianJW]

The really bad thing is that this becomes an issue as soon as you enable light with the E-Tube app - even if you are not drawing any current at all! And even if you have turned light off in the settings on the controller (using the buttons). The controller calculates worse case scenario, which is 2A (max rating) - not matter what the actual current flow is. I was not drawing any current at all when I experienced the issue.

I see, so once activated it limits your range whether you are using a light or not. Explains why it is turned off as the default setting.
Maybe I’ll stick with a rechargeable. If hardwiring the light means carrying a spare battery then it’s an expensive option. Thanks!

 

[andytiedye]

This doesn't add up. 504 WH battery at between 20% and 40% charge, and it wants to save it all for 40 minutes of 12 watt light? It should have at least 100 WH left, and the light should take a max of 8 WH.

 

[AdrianJW]

This doesn't add up. 504 WH battery at between 20% and 40% charge, and it wants to save it all for 40 minutes of 12 watt light? It should have at least 100 WH left, and the light should take a max of 8 WH.

A good point; a couple of LEDs shouldn't need that much power. Most lights seem to be 6W, too.
Perhaps there is an issue with the Shimano firmware settings.

 

[Momo]

Did you hardwire it? Which rear light did you go for?

Yup wired it directly to the motor terminals.
As for rear light i installed this : US $10.64 29% OFF|Onature Electric Bicycle Rear Light For E Bike Input DC6V 12V 18V 24V 36V 48V 60V Powerful Light for Bafang LED eBike Tail Light-in Electric Bicycle Accessories from Sports & Entertainment on AliExpress - 11.11_Double 11_Singles' Day
Very bright light